Benning - Potential to be one of our Best GM's ever?

[JM_]

1 minute ago, By sea and land said:

I think Trader Jim has already become our greatest GM.  Give him a few more years in the community doing great things and he'll certainly rival the Big Irishman for bring loved here.

 

Most of Bennings personal moves have been terrific but even better than these moves are his interviews.  I love his awkwardness in front of the camera.  He's so great to listen to, especially when talking about kids he's scouting.  "That kid can really 'rip' it"!

 

Benning's got my vote!

My favourite Benning quote is when 1040 asked him about Tryamkin and Jim said "He's a big dude"  He's not polished but thats one of the things I really like about him. 

[Pete M]

1 minute ago, BaerBoBoeser said:

Again, this is similar to most complaints - i don't think you can assess things in a vacuum I think you need to consider what he had to work with/started with and where we are now

 

You can't ignore the handcuffs and issues he had at the beginning and just start the evaluation timer as of today. We had NOTHING other than Bo when he came in as our 'next core' - I don't know how many GM's could pull off what he has done here.

 

As for Tkatchuk/Juoelevi - Juolevi is expected to be a top 2 dman and should be - don't think you can evaluate it as looking 'bad' when our pick we decided needed to gain some strength and size given his position demands it more than Tkachuk's. Tkatcuk having a good rookie year doesn't mean Juolevi won't when its his time, and doesn't mean TK will be a better player in the long run. We also filled an important void in our group and at the time had no clue we'd sign Stech or that Try would turn out as he has.

 

Every team is going to lose a player in the expansion draft and that makes it particularly hard to trade - again vacuum? Nucks arent the only team in that bind?

 

As of today, it looks bad because Tkachuk is playing and producing at the NHL level...I'm actually giving JB the benefit of the doubt...because time will tell.

 

What if OJ doesn't pan out, has that crossed your mind? We don't know, time will tell if OJ works out, but when you compare them now at the NHL level, Tkachuk is producing and is a contributing player to the Flames team success. Have you watched Tkachuk play? He is a good NHL player and he is only 19 years old. Tkachuk is having a great rookie season and he even makes his linemates better now (sign of a good player). I see this now. 

 

As of today, Calgary has won the draft and JB looks bad...hopefully, my perspective will change in 2 to 3 years when OJ shows his value and worth.

 

 

[drdeath]

 

33 minutes ago, Pete M said:

As it stands today, JB not picking Tkachuk doesn't look good.

OJ needs to be a top #2 D man to make JB look good. 

LE signing, to date, is bad.

He needs to get assets for a dman that might be lost for nothing in the ED

This is short term judgement, what I see today.

However, time will tell.

Give him 2 to 3 years, it will be interesting to see how he handles the Sedins retirement/ extension.

 

2-3 years seems like a long time, considering he is in year 3, but the age structure and skill level of the team is poor and he needs to get younger, faster, stronger, skilled players through the draft. When there is a player like Tkachuk available, he needs to pick him rather than pass on him.

 

 

 

The Canucks won't be competitive until 2018/19 when the Sedins existing salaries are off the books. Taking a look at the last few top drafted defensemen + three years and it's pretty exciting stuff.

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, CanuckleHorse said:

The only thing he done wrong was hire WD to me that was a big mistake but maybe he wants another high pick and knows that WD will ensure that.

Canucks are one of the worst teams in the league, looking at the players.  

 

Willie is not a miracle worker.  

[CanadianRugby]

2 hours ago, BaerBoBoeser said:

no one can question the boys play hard every night, and for the most part are usually in every game with a chance to win

This has 100% to do with the coach that's going to be fired at the end of the year, and 0% to do with the awful lineup that our GM has assembled. 

 

Benning wasted draft picks and 2.5 years of time trying to go on playoff runs with the Sedins.  Because of this direction he took the team, I'd say he's the worst not the best GM ever for the Canucks.  Should have been stockpiling picks like Toronto.  Also, his drafting is so overrated by CDC.  He's had 3 drafts and despite having the 5th and 6th overall picks he's only drafted 1 player that's made the NHL and stuck. 

[BaerBoBoeser]

1 minute ago, Pete M said:

As of today, it looks bad because Tkachuk is playing and producing at the NHL level...I'm actually giving JB the benefit of the doubt...because time will tell.

 

What if OJ doesn't pan out, has that crossed your mind? We don't know, time will tell if OJ works out, but when you compare them now at the NHL level, Tkachuk is producing and is a contributing player to the Flames team success. Have you watched Tkachuk play? He is a good NHL player and he is only 19 years old. Tkachuk is having a great rookie season and he even makes his linemates better now (sign of a good player). I see this now. 

 

As of today, Calgary has won the draft and JB looks bad...hopefully, my perspective will change in 2 to 3 years when OJ shows his value and worth.

 

 

what if tkatcuk is  flash in the pan? what if his skating doesn't improve? has that crossed your mind? one season does not make a career friend, go talk to Devon Setaguchi, Cheehoo, Ville Leino, Coho, many many more - just saying you can't evaluate any player on one season - it takes a long career to show who has more impact and maybe both with be great players for a long time for their respective team. You just seem to assume the worst for us for some reason - even in the face of what Benning has shown in his ability to assess talent - which is quite odd.

 

Again, we're not in a vacuum and i am trying to help you understand the point was looking at the big picture. You are parsing out one draft pick as your argument when our player hasn't even played to suggest Benning hasn't done a fine job?

 

Move along, your argument is very weak - its not an argument based on any fact - its a baseless opinion since we can't yet compare the players and really it will be right to evaluate them when they've both been in the league for 5 years. Not at 19 buddy.

[Pete M]

Just now, BaerBoBoeser said:

what if tkatcuk is  flash in the pan? what if his skating doesn't improve? has that crossed your mind? one season does not make a career friend, go talk to Devon Setaguchi, Cheehoo, Ville Leino, Coho, many many more - just saying you can't evaluate any player on one season - it takes a long career to show who has more impact and maybe both with be great players for a long time for their respective team. You just seem to assume the worst for us for some reason - even in the face of what Benning has shown in his ability to assess talent - which is quite odd.

 

Again, we're not in a vacuum and i am trying to help you understand the point was looking at the big picture. You are parsing out one draft pick as your argument when our player hasn't even played to suggest Benning hasn't done a fine job?

 

Move along, your argument is very weak - its not an argument based on any fact - its a baseless opinion since we can't yet compare the players and really it will be right to evaluate them when they've both been in the league for 5 years. Not at 19 buddy.

I can tell you haven't watched Tkachuk play.

He makes smart plays, he controls the play behind the net and in front of the net because of his high hockey IQ. He is a smart hockey player now at the NHL level. Can tell he has been taught and mentored by his dad and knowledgeable hockey people.

[BaerBoBoeser]

3 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

This has 100% to do with the coach that's going to be fired at the end of the year, and 0% to do with the awful lineup that our GM has assembled. 

 

Benning wasted draft picks and 2.5 years of time trying to go on playoff runs with the Sedins.  Because of this direction he took the team, I'd say he's the worst not the best GM ever for the Canucks.  Should have been stockpiling picks like Toronto.  Also, his drafting is so overrated by CDC.  He's had 3 drafts and despite having the 5th and 6th overall picks he's only drafted 1 player that's made the NHL and stuck. 

Boeser- 25th overall - Being touted as the best player out of US College since Toews

Gaudette -5th round Hobey Baker candidate

Demko - Second round - Team USA goalie, won everything in the book, Hobey Baker finalist

Tryamkin - 3rd round - nuff said

Brisboise - 3rd round - Last cut from Team Canada WJC 2017

McCann - turned into Gudbranson

Lockwood  -looks to have a chance at being an NHL'er- 3rd round

Juolevi - right on track

 

Don't think those are wasted draft picks buddy, nor 'overrating' his eye for talent - players take time to devleop but each of those names are ahead of where they should be given their draft positions - ex McCann who is gone and yes we can say Virtanen for now .

 

Eye for talent is not only drafts, its trading for young players

 

Ie Baer, Granlund, Stecher. and we will see with Dahlen and Goldobin

 

 

[BaerBoBoeser]

14 minutes ago, Pete M said:

I can tell you haven't watched Tkachuk play.

He makes smart plays, he controls the play behind the net and in front of the net because of his high hockey IQ. He is a smart hockey player now at the NHL level. Can tell he has been taught and mentored by his dad and knowledgeable hockey people.

Where did I say he isn't any of that?

 

Don't put words in my mouth buddy - I said ONE season is not enough to evaluate a player - lots of players have one good year and disapear

 

Remember the second coming of Doug Gilmour in 18 year old Sam Bennett? What has happened to him? Not saying he's a bust but he certainly regressed right?

 

If you think a player is who he is going to be forever, from his one good rookie season, don't tell me I haven't watched Tkachuk play, its you who barely knows hockey

 

And to add, try reading the whole conversation and POINT I was making -as we were comparing apples to oranges. We were talking about TK vs Juloevi and clearly its way to early to call who go the best player that's the POINT - and both teams may have got the RIGHT player - we only know in time.

[elvis15]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. He's doing ok with the turnover so far but one good trade deadline and some prospects with potential aren't going to turn this franchise around post-Sedins. With no action at all on last years deadline, and maybe not finding some deals for more picks over his first few years while using picks to fill the gap, things definitely haven't been all roses so far. As much as Granlund and Baertschi are doing well, we had Vey and Clendening that didn't (still a pretty good rate but he's not infallible). He's had some picks turn out so far but most aren't playing any kind of significant pro minutes to really tell what we've got yet, and the concerns over Virtanen are not unfounded at this point.

 

In other words, some good, some average and some bad moves (and non-moves) that considering he's a first time GM are encouraging but not nearly enough to start thinking he could be our best ever GM or the best in the league.

[Pete M]

2 minutes ago, BaerBoBoeser said:

Where did I say he isn't any of that?

 

Don't put words in my mouth buddy - I said ONE season is not enough to evaluate a player - lots of players have one good year and disapear

 

Remember the second coming of Doug Gilmour in 18 year old Sam Bennett? What has happened to him? Not saying he's a bust but he certainly regressed right?

 

If you think a player is who is going to be forever from his one good rookie season, don't tell me I haven't watched Tkachuk play, its you who barely knows hockey

Let's chat in 3 years time...we will be able to better assess JBs record. As of now, he lost the draft.

[CanadianRugby]

2 minutes ago, BaerBoBoeser said:

Boeser- 25th overall - Being touted as the best player out of US College since Toews

Gaudette -5th round Hobey Baker candidate

Demko - Second round - Team USA goalie, won everything in the book, Hobey Baker finalist

Tryamkin - 3rd round - nuff said

Brisboise - 3rd round - Last cut from Team Canada WJC 2017

McCann - turned into Gudbranson

Lockwood  -looks to have a chance at being an NHL'er- 3rd round

Juolevi - right on track

 

Don't think those are wasted draft picks buddy, nor 'overrating' his eye for talent - players take time to devleop but each of those names are ahead of where they should be given their draft positions - ex McCann who is gone and yes we can say Virtanen for now .

 

Eye for talent is not only drafts, its trading for young players

 

Ie Baer, Granlund, Stecher. and we will see with Dahlen and Goldobin

 

 

First of all, McCann didn't turn into Gudbranson.  We also gave up a 2nd and 4th round pick (got 5th back).  Why are you even bragging about Gudbranson, have you watched him play?  Virtanen, who at 6th overall so far looks like a complete bust.  None of his 1st round picks are even in the league. 

 

I hope that some of the other guys you mentioned turn into good players, but so far all they are is potential.  Guess what, a lot of teams have a lot of players with potential.  Not all of them will turn into NHLers let alone great players.  Meanwhile other guys that Benning could have drafted like Nylander and Tkachuk are lighting the league up. 

 

If in 2 or 3 years the players you listed are lighting the league up, then start making threads about how great Benning is.  So far the Benning era is a bust. 

[BaerBoBoeser]

5 minutes ago, Pete M said:

Let's chat in 3 years time...we will be able to better assess JBs record. As of now, he lost the draft.

No he didn't

I'm right sorry!

 

You're wrong

[CanadianRugby]

9 minutes ago, BaerBoBoeser said:

Where did I say he isn't any of that?

 

Don't put words in my mouth buddy - I said ONE season is not enough to evaluate a player - lots of players have one good year and disappear

One season isn't enough to evaluate a player.. agreed, though.  Funny, you've already evaluated all our prospects before they've even had one season.  According to you they're going to be such good NHL players that Benning is the best Canuck GM ever. 

[Pete M]

Just now, BaerBoBoeser said:

No he didn't

I'm right sorry!

 

You're wrong

Carry on...

[KKnight]

11 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

This has 100% to do with the coach that's going to be fired at the end of the year, and 0% to do with the awful lineup that our GM has assembled. 

 

Benning wasted draft picks and 2.5 years of time trying to go on playoff runs with the Sedins.  Because of this direction he took the team, I'd say he's the worst not the best GM ever for the Canucks.  Should have been stockpiling picks like Toronto.  Also, his drafting is so overrated by CDC.  He's had 3 drafts and despite having the 5th and 6th overall picks he's only drafted 1 player that's made the NHL and stuck. 

Potentially our strongest group of a prospect pool as long as ive been alive (1988). Wasted draft picks?? Well it shouldnt matter if hes so horrible at drafting like you say. Do you listen to yourself and think "Hey, this makes no sense? Well gee lets post this on CDC." 

 

Boeser

Gaudette 

Dahlen (for a guy well past his prime) All love Burr.

Goldobin

Tryamkin

Stecher

Demko

Juolevi

Brisebois

Virtanen

Granlund

Baertschi

Gudbranson

 

What were you expecting him to land us a Mcdavid?  Are all these players developed? No! But development doesnt just take 2 seasons and then poof ultra superstars start popping out. Its a process. I for one like how the culture is. Nothing is being gifted, these players need to learn how to be pros. 

 

 

 

 

[N4ZZY]

Just now, CanadianRugby said:

First of all, McCann didn't turn into Gudbranson.  We also gave up a 2nd and 4th round pick (got 5th back).  Why are you even bragging about Gudbranson, have you watched him play?  Virtanen, who at 6th overall so far looks like a complete bust.  None of his 1st round picks are even in the league. 

 

I hope that some of the other guys you mentioned turn into good players, but so far all they are is potential.  Guess what, a lot of teams have a lot of players with potential.  Not all of them will turn into NHLers let alone great players.  Meanwhile other guys that Benning could have drafted like Nylander and Tkachuk are lighting the league up. 

 

If in 2 or 3 years the players you listed are lighting the league up, then start making threads about how great Benning is.  So far the Benning era is a bust. 

Let's wait a little bit before calling Virtanen a bust. lmao. it's called development, and every player progresses differently. 

Juolevi, is one of Benning's first round picks. He's doing just fine in London, and he will make a fine NHLer one day soon. 

Nylander and Tkachuk are solid NHL players, and will be (if they're development continues on the right path) great players down the road. And yes, we could have had them. But we don't. so stop crying over spilled milk. LMAO. 

 

Benning era is a bust? I think what makes a great General Manager is being able to find NHL players in the later rounds of the draft. So far, Tryamkin is his biggest find (literally, too..haha). Gaudette seems like a gamer. Lockwood? Gustav Forsling (while no longer with the Canucks, he is playing with the Hawks in the NHL). What about Ryan Miller (5th round pick??). I think some people have a tendency to hate on Benning. He has hade his misses to be sure, but he's found some solid players as well. 

 

[wallstreetamigo]

His main weaknesses overall were trying to build around the Sedins for 3 further years after taking over and not drafting the best player available with his early picks. Had he really started the transition in earnest right away I think we would be much further ahead. Many of his filler trades were misses too.

 

Overall he has done a good job with later picks and getting us some promising prospects. But not much of that is contributing in the NHL yet so it is too early to declare "Mission Accomplished".

 

I think for him to be considered among the best GM's in Canucks history or in the league, he has a ways to go yet though. 

[N4ZZY]

1 minute ago, wallstreetamigo said:

His main weaknesses overall were trying to build around the Sedins for 3 further years after taking over and not drafting the best player available with his early picks. Had he really started the transition in earnest right away I think we would be much further ahead. Many of his filler trades were misses too.

 

Overall he has done a good job with later picks and getting us some promising prospects. But not much of that is contributing in the NHL yet so it is too early to declare "Mission Accomplished".

 

I think for him to be considered among the best GM's in Canucks history or in the league, he has a ways to go yet though. 

your assuming that he was allowed to by ownership. 

 

[wallstreetamigo]

Just now, N4ZZY said:

your assuming that he was allowed to by ownership. 

 

Why would I assume any different? Maybe he wasn't but maybe he just decided not to himself. According to him ownership doesn't interfere so why should we automatically not believe him?