Benning - Potential to be one of our Best GM's ever?

[apollo]

He's the gm and he hasn't fired Willie yet... I'm not sure if he's to blame or Trevor but neither should be crowned whatsoever. 

 

Man oh man his draft picks are gonna have to really pan out to make him even remotely close to be a top contender for one of our best gms ever. 

 

 

[BaerBoBoeser]

1 minute ago, CanadianRugby said:

First of all, McCann didn't turn into Gudbranson.  We also gave up a 2nd and 4th round pick (got 5th back).  Why are you even bragging about Gudbranson, have you watched him play?  Virtanen, who at 6th overall so far looks like a complete bust.  None of his 1st round picks are even in the league. 

 

I hope that some of the other guys you mentioned turn into good players, but so far all they are is potential.  Guess what, a lot of teams have a lot of players with potential.  Not all of them will turn into NHLers let alone great players.  Meanwhile other guys that Benning could have drafted like Nylander and Tkachuk are lighting the league up. 

 

If in 2 or 3 years the players you listed are lighting the league up, then start making threads about how great Benning is.  So far the Benning era is a bust. 

I am finding there are people on this board who lack reading comprehension skills

 

Firstly I said in totality he has done a fine job - this statement (just to help you out a little here because you seem to be really missing the overarching point) was qualified by the point that you have to consider what he started with, what handcuffs he had, and what our system looked like. Clearly, you either chose to ignore this point or seemingly want to parse on parts of his decisions to support your view that you don't like him. That's a poor way to debate since its not addressing the original premise raised.

 

It is always easy to look at specifics in isolation to defend your position, indeed its a good deflection technique for those who don't have a strong position - as in this case, clearly no GM is 'perfect', so by isolating deals that may not be as 'good' as we'd hoped, we get away from the real debate - that in TOTALITY GIVEN WHAT HE STARTED WITH, THE AGING TEAM, NTCS, NO PIPELINE OUTSIDE OF BO, AND LIMITED PLACES TO MOVE PLAYERS HE HAS DONE A FINE JOB

 

As for Virtanen, If you read, I acknowledged he was behind, so it doesn't mean over all Benning hasn't done a fine job - time will tell what he is but for now sure its disappointing given the 2 players right behind him were highly ranked and doing well - but don't forget Nylander spend 1/2 a year in Europe and a year plus in the AHL (so shouldn't JV be given that time to assess) and Nylander's being shielded by two uber rookies in Matthews and Marner. Not to take away from either Ehlers who plays with Laine and Schiefle, or Nylander but clearly they are playing with much better offensive players and aren't expected to play the same game as Virtanen - hard to assess who will be more valuable when the nucs are in the hunt again -but I digress this isnt the point of the thread - its about Benning -and by responding to this I am playing into the game of parse out parts you don't like vs staying focused on the overall point.

 

As for first round picks being in the league - Mantha took 3 years to get to the NHL, most players do actually regardless of round - he seems to be doing pretty good? If that's how you evaluate success - by how many first rounders are in the NHL and making an impact at 19 yrs old, you don't know much about hockey kid

 

And Gudbranson was hurt all year and Mcann and a second for a player of his capability from PROFESSIONAL PLAYERS AND SCOUTS is actually cheap

 

Disagree with your commentary

[wallstreetamigo]

2 minutes ago, apollo said:

He's the gm and he hasn't fired Willie yet... I'm not sure if he's to blame or Trevor but neither should be crowned whatsoever. 

 

Man oh man his draft picks are gonna have to really pan out to make him even remotely close to be a top contender for one of our best gms ever. 

 

 

He could be one of our best GM's ever or one of our worst. To many unknowns to make a call either way at this point.

[apollo]

2 hours ago, Mathew Barzal said:

We could put Sestito at the helm and he'd have the 'potential' to be one of our best GM's ever.

 

I'm fine with everything Benning's done except this insistence on 'filling the age gap'. That was just a poor excuse to play moneyball with our picks.

 

Now that we've committed to the full rebuild I think he'll be able to do what he does best. We just need to get Gillis back to manage our free agent acquisitions and contract negotiations.

 

I have a bad feeling we'll be paying premium market value for our own players if it's left to him.

Good thing Jimbo fired Gillman. 

 

I assume it was something like this 

 

Gillman: hey Jim... Ummm you're aware of the salary cap right? We can't overpay everyone 

Jimbo: I'm all about Dem meat and potaterz... Cap means nothing! YOU'RE FIRED! 

[CanadianRugby]

2 minutes ago, KKnight said:

What were you expecting him to land us a Mcdavid?  Are all these players developed? No! But development doesnt just take 2 seasons and then poof ultra superstars start popping out. Its a process. I for one like how the culture is. Nothing is being gifted, these players need to learn how to be pros. 

Yes, actually.  Terrible teams tend to land franchise players.  I realize it's a lottery so nothing is guaranteed but without a franchise player or two this team will not win a Cup.  Kane, Toews, Doughty, Malkin and Crosby.  Without them those teams don't win the Cup.  Benning has done a great job at getting 2nd/3rd line forwards and 2nd/3rd pairing D, but the hard part is getting the elite players.  Doesn't it seem counterintuitive to build a decent team (so you're not a bottom dweller) and THEN try to get franchise players?

 

8 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

Let's wait a little bit before calling Virtanen a bust. lmao. it's called development, and every player progresses differently. 

 

Benning era is a bust? I think what makes a great General Manager is being able to find NHL players in the later rounds of the draft. So far, Tryamkin is his biggest find (literally, too..haha).

Agreed on your first point.  But if Virtanen isn't a bust (yet) then Boeser/Juolevi and definitely none of the others can be considered for sure NHL quality players (yet), let alone great players.

 

Disagree with your 2nd point.  I think what makes a great General Manager is building Stanley Cup winners.  Even if it was, finding players in late rounds.. Benning has found one.  Tryamkin.  Even Gillis (who never had any picks to work with) found Hutton in the 5th. 

[Pete M]

JB also did not address the glaring need for dmen in his first year when several very good UFAs were available. He got rid of Garrison and did not replace him with quality. Rather he signed Miller, who has been a bust in years one and two. Year three (his contract year), he has been playing at an average NHL level. He is far from being the best as indicated by the interest for him at the TDL.

[apollo]

4 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

He could be one of our best GM's ever or one of our worst. To many unknowns to make a call either way at this point.

Honestly, a lot... And I mean a lot will have to turn around for him to be considered better than mg, burky, or even nonis... I wasn't around during the Quinn days but surely he'll never get to Quinn status. 

 

Way too many poor decisions already... 

 

His scouting will have to save him. So far, I'd say he's drafted pretty well. Out of Vey Sven and granlund, he went 2 for 3 which is pretty solid too. 

 

Trade wise, he's been 50/50 if u ask me 

 

I just wana see us succeed... I hope he proves me wrong 

[Vinny in Vancouver]

Top 100 for sure!

[N4ZZY]

15 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Why would I assume any different? Maybe he wasn't but maybe he just decided not to himself. According to him ownership doesn't interfere so why should we automatically not believe him?

because GM's aren't always transparent. What is Benning going to say? That ownership had his hands tied and he couldn't rebuild as soon as he was on board? Saying that, he might as well offer his resignation. lol. 

In this industry, people lie all the time. they don't always tell the media, or the fans everything that's really going on. especially in a fishbowl like Van. 

 

[N4ZZY]

8 minutes ago, apollo said:

Honestly, a lot... And I mean a lot will have to turn around for him to be considered better than mg, burky, or even nonis... I wasn't around during the Quinn days but surely he'll never get to Quinn status. 

 

Way too many poor decisions already... 

 

His scouting will have to save him. So far, I'd say he's drafted pretty well. Out of Vey Sven and granlund, he went 2 for 3 which is pretty solid too. 

 

Trade wise, he's been 50/50 if u ask me 

 

I just wana see us succeed... I hope he proves me wrong 

i would consider benning a pretty decent GM. 

during the nonis or burke years, we drafted pretty poorly. I think worse than benning (must worse). 

i feel like benning has brought in, and restocked a prospects cupboard that was one of the league's worst. 

we now have quality prospects in the pipeline, and it should get better in the coming years. 

 

[oldnews]

55 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

 I'd say he's the worst not the best GM ever for the Canucks.  Should have been stockpiling picks like Toronto.  Also, his drafting is so overrated by CDC. 

You clearly don't know much about some of the former Canuck GMs (I guess that's to be expected from a Leafs homer).

Your Leaf nut-hugging is reaching comical proportions.

You're really in no better position to judge his drafting as under or over-rated.

 

But drink up:

 

 

 

[McBackup]

He's on the right track but every GM has the "potential". Pat Quinn was our best GM ever so thats the bar Benning has to pass.

[wallstreetamigo]

 

2 minutes ago, Bitter Melon said:

He's on the right track but every GM has the "potential". Pat Quinn was our best GM ever so thats the bar Benning has to pass.

That's a high bar

[CanadianRugby]

7 minutes ago, BaerBoBoeser said:

Firstly I said in totality he has done a fine job

No.  You said "if he keeps this up he has the potential to be the best Canuck GM ever, and one of the best in the league."  A ridiculous statement, which is the only reason I replied in the first place.

 

It is always easy to look at specifics in isolation to defend your position

Yeah specifics, or facts tend to support my position. 

You stated when Benning came in he had "NOTHING" to work with other than Bo.  Then go on to say "Hutton is looking solid" and somehow give Benning credit for that as if he drafted him.  Then have the audacity to say that I don't know much about hockey.  Maybe you should check out what moves Benning has actually made before you crown him as best ever and tell people they don't know what they're talking about.

 

And Gudbranson was hurt all year and Mcann and a second for a player of his capability from PROFESSIONAL PLAYERS AND SCOUTS is actually cheap

As far as Gudbranson goes...

http://www.tsn.ca/panthers-take-advantage-of-canucks-in-lopsided-trade-1.496247

http://thecanuckway.com/2016/11/21/vancouver-canucks-d-erik-gudbranson-is-exactly-what-we-expected/

http://thehockeywriters.com/what-do-the-canucks-do-with-erik-gudbranson/

http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/canucks-should-trade-deadline-2017-erik-gudbranson

https://canucksarmy.com/2016/12/22/should-the-canucks-extend-erik-gudbranson-s-contract/

I know that the media.. sorry, the "media" isn't popular among Trump voters or Canuck fans on CDC but they're paid experts for a reason.  I mean, they did predict this season.

 

[afan]

JB should fire himself for not knowing Virtanen having the so-called attitude problem and wasted a 6th overall pick to draft him. JB again should fire himself a second time when he should have known McCann is too small in size to play for the Canucks and yet wasted a 24th overall pick in drafting him. Juolevi playing in the OHL this season also does not look like he is worth the 5th overall pick. JB the former scout obviously is not that good at scouting, who absolutely had no idea what he was going to get on the draft days.

 

JB has been picking up former 1st round picks who are proven failures by other teams, together with waivers who are mostly grinders, just like we ordinary folks are buying lottery tickets in the hope of hitting the jackpot some day in the future, which we all know will never happen. Instead of building a younger, faster, competitive team as promised, the Canucks lineup are now filled with aged expensive veterans near the end of their careers and a whole bunch of grinders. Of course this team plays hard because each and every game could be the last game in the NHL for these guys. The only problem is that they cannot win games.

 

Miller today is a BELOW average NHL goalie at best from whatever statistics you look at it. Yet JB will probably sign his boy Miller to a new contract to take away the ice-time of Markstrom next year so as to leave the Canucks with no established No 1 goalie by the end of next season when TL, JB and WD should and would all be let go by the owner.

[CanadianRugby]

12 minutes ago, oldnews said:

You clearly don't know much about some of the former Canuck GMs (I guess that's to be expected from a Leafs homer).

Your Leaf nut-hugging is reaching comical proportions.

You're really in no better position to judge his drafting as under or over-rated.

 

But drink up:

 

 

 

I'll admit I don't know anything about Canuck GM's previous '92 which is when I started watching the team.  So I'm only comparing Benning to GM's since then. 

 

I'm not a Leafs homer. 

I hate them, but respect the hell out of what Shanahan and Lamoriello have accomplished there.  Tanked for 2 years, acquired a ton of draft picks, drafted a franchise player and now their youngsters are leading their team into the playoffs.  If you want to hate them, hate them.  Ridiculing their process while praising what Benning/Linden have been doing is beyond being a homer.  It just makes you look stupid.

[wallstreetamigo]

7 minutes ago, afan said:

JB should fire himself for not knowing Virtanen having the so-called attitude problem and wasted a 6th overall pick to draft him. JB again should fire himself a second time when he should have known McCann is too small in size to play for the Canucks and yet wasted a 24th overall pick in drafting him. Juolevi playing in the OHL this season also does not look like he is worth the 5th overall pick. JB the former scout obviously is not that good at scouting, who absolutely had no idea what he was going to get on the draft days.

 

JB has been picking up former 1st round picks who are proven failures by other teams, together with waivers who are mostly grinders, just like we ordinary folks are buying lottery tickets in the hope of hitting the jackpot some day in the future, which we all know will never happen. Instead of building a younger, faster, competitive team as promised, the Canucks lineup are now filled with aged expensive veterans near the end of their careers and a whole bunch of grinders. Of course this team plays hard because each and every game could be the last game in the NHL for these guys. The only problem is that they cannot win games.

 

Miller today is a BELOW average NHL goalie at best from whatever statistics you look at it. Yet JB will probably sign his boy Miller to a new contract to take away the ice-time of Markstrom next year so as to leave the Canucks with no established No 1 goalie by the end of next season when TL, JB and WD should and would all be let go by the owner.

I can be pretty pessimistic about this team at times but wow man you went full steam ahead on the pessimism there lol

[Blömqvist]

2 hours ago, BaerBoBoeser said:

I think fans are way too hard on willie, he hasn't had much to work with. A team in transition, alot of AHL fringe players filling in, many injuries over 2 years. I don't know what people expect of this lineup. These years have a been a delayed transition which is the one criticism of Benning I have, he should have recognized this soon, I saw it, Torts saw it, fans saw it. But this willie hate is a bit misdirected i think.

 

Now, I am not saying Willie is some great coach (some of his decisions at times are odd), and he may not be the right guy going forward but it doesn't mean he's awful - things people need to consider when they bark at willie is

 

Bo has developed into an All Star

Granny is 23 and going to score 25 goals

Traymkin is looking like he will be a beast

Hutton is looking solid

Stecher is playing great

Baerschi teetered on the edge of losing his game and now looks like a leader for this franchise going forward

Sbisa has improved in the years under Willie to the point people don't want to lose him

 

I don't think people can criticize Willie for all the problems and then say well all these players are developing incredibly well in spite of him. Willie has done a terrific job in development of our young core - while we may not be happy that the results are coming fast enough, and with some of his coaching decisions, recognize he has a mishmash of players to work with and in terms of what this franchise REALLY needs going forward - see above - he's doing it. Not to mention, I certainly don't see any quit in this group, regardless of the standings, so he clearly hasn't 'lost the room'

 

I don't want to derail this into a willie thread, but I disagree that he's a bad coach- He's extremely underappreciaed by fans here if you look at how those players, our future core, are playing

I don't think WD is a bad coach too; However, he is a young coach and still has much to learn. I like that he is a great communicator and teacher and rewards hard work. Yes, player deployment is an issue same with the inability to make changes mid-game, but like any young player who can correct their mistakes and develop their craft, the same should be said for a young coach.

 

One thing that I noticed was that last year (and previous years) the team would give up on themselves if there was a big momentum shift. Another thing was that in years prior we would be chasing the puck lots and be out of position. It seems like this year there's been some changes. For the most part the team has remained competitive even during big momentum shifts and more often than not are never out of a game. Moreso, the coaching staff introduced the new system and the guys are definitely buying into it and have the discipline to stay in position. Yes, the Canucks added Doug Jarvis to the coaching staff so he deserves credit as well, but WD is the head coach and he has say into what the team does and if anything it shows that he is open to new ideas to develop his craft.

 

WD clearly still has much to learn with him being a young coach and so far, with the way that the team is competing this year and how determined they are to run the system, it shows that WD is learning new ideas and developing his craft.

 

ANYWAYS, back to Benning, I think he's made some real good moves but he's also made some gambles that we've yet to see the results of. One thing that I'm wondering what he will do is what will the team look like. Will we be a fast and skilled team or a rough and tumble team. Will we have a specific identity or is he trying to build us as a team big enough to compete in the Pacific Division but skilled and fast enough to compete against the Eastern teams. 

 

[CanadianRugby]

35 minutes ago, apollo said:

Honestly, a lot... And I mean a lot will have to turn around for him to be considered better than mg, burky, or even nonis... I wasn't around during the Quinn days but surely he'll never get to Quinn status. 

 

Way too many poor decisions already... 

 

His scouting will have to save him. So far, I'd say he's drafted pretty well. Out of Vey Sven and granlund, he went 2 for 3 which is pretty solid too. 

 

Trade wise, he's been 50/50 if u ask me 

 

I just wana see us succeed... I hope he proves me wrong 

I only usually see you post things that I assume are meant to be over the top sensational.

This is a fair and balanced assessment coming out of you, what's going on?

[wallstreetamigo]

3 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

I only usually see you post things that I assume are meant to be over the top sensational.

This is a fair and balanced assessment coming out of you, what's going on?

Heavy drugs