[PGT] Bruins @ Canucks

[darkpoet]

13 minutes ago, combover said:

 

The forwards seem to abandon the d so they need to make longer passes  

Actually, it's the defense that's taking WAY too long to move the puck up ice. You can't expect your forwards to do laps at the blue line waiting for you, or even worse, just standing there not moving at all.

I gave Edler a slap last night and he's the perfect example. Just watch him. EVERY time he has the puck he'll do his classic "freeze the puck against the boards, then look over both shoulders to see who's available to pass to".... and by then he's got 2 guys on him, he panics, gives the puck away and the tail chase begins.

He does the same "i'm gonna do this all in slow motion so i look like Mario Lemeuix" in the offensive zone too. Watch. He'll get a pass at the point and then it's like brain freeze. Time stands still for 3 seconds. THEN he decides to shoot. And again, by then the lane is clogged and he's shooting into a meat jungle.

:Like I said yesterday, the guy is either done, and/or he needs to be traded in the summer - because he's "teaching" our young D all the wrong things. 
 

[SamJamIam]

16 minutes ago, darkpoet said:

And again, by then the lane is clogged and he's shooting into a meat jungle.. 

I think I went to that club once.  Thankfully left without any lanes being clogged

[Bo053]

1 hour ago, Kakanucks said:

RANT.

 

For those that keep mentioning there are a handful of teams they'd rather watch than the Canucks right now, then by all means please just go. Show with your actions than coming here on the Canucks forum and saying how much you hate watching them.

 

I come here for my team, which is the Canucks, and no, I'm not delusional into thinking everything is puppies and rainbows with the team. But I also don't come here to constantly read negative garbage about the one team I support.

 

Yes the Sedins are old and slowing down, and sometimes their play on the ice causes bad results. But who doesn't? Horvat was just one the ice for 2 OT losses prior. As long as any player is still on the Canucks roster and donning our jersey, I will still 100% support them. It's called "we are all canucks" for a reason.

 

Don't reply to tell me how I'm a homer, or to justify the negative crap that is on here.

 

Rant over.

Some of us are hockey fans, and then there's people like you that are just Canuck fans.

Even when the Canucks are playing well there are still a couple other teams that I will watch if their games happen to be on TV. And when the Canucks are playing like this and are just complete garbage to watch I'll watch those teams even when the Canucks are on.

There are teams in the league that I simply like to watch play because of who they have on the team and the style they play, they are more entertaining to watch even when they lose. I don't care that the Canucks are losing but they look god awful doing it, nothing about them is making me want to watch this season.

[Kakanucks]

Just now, Bo053 said:

Some of us are hockey fans, and then there's people like you that are just Canuck fans.

Even when the Canucks are playing well there are still a couple other teams that I will watch if their games happen to be on TV. And when the Canucks are playing like this and are just complete garbage to watch I'll watch those teams even when the Canucks are on.

There are teams in the league that I simply like to watch play because of who they have on the team and the style they play, they are more entertaining to watch even when they lose. I don't care that the Canucks are losing but they look god awful doing it, nothing about them is making me want to watch this season.

And last time I check this was the Canucks forum, and not just Hockey in General forum.

 

Just because I'm a JUST Canucks fan as you want to call it, doesn't mean I'm not a Hockey fan as well. Anyone that watches the Canucks play is pretty much a hockey fan, you don't become a fan of a hockey club if you don't like the sport hockey in general.

[SilentSam]

24 minutes ago, darkpoet said:

Actually, it's the defense that's taking WAY too long to move the puck up ice. You can't expect your forwards to do laps at the blue line waiting for you, or even worse, just standing there not moving at all.

I gave Edler a slap last night and he's the perfect example. Just watch him. EVERY time he has the puck he'll do his classic "freeze the puck against the boards, then look over both shoulders to see who's available to pass to".... and by then he's got 2 guys on him, he panics, gives the puck away and the tail chase begins.

He does the same "i'm gonna do this all in slow motion so i look like Mario Lemeuix" in the offensive zone too. Watch. He'll get a pass at the point and then it's like brain freeze. Time stands still for 3 seconds. THEN he decides to shoot. And again, by then the lane is clogged and he's shooting into a meat jungle.

:Like I said yesterday, the guy is either done, and/or he needs to be traded in the summer - because he's "teaching" our young D all the wrong things. 
 

Edler himself should realize that he needs a new team to go to.. 

He is feeling the pressure of high minutes, pacing himself.

Trying not to re-injure himself, has become tentative with his checks, his timing is off, and his passing blind.

He is one who would have refreshed his game going to a cup contender, and in hindsight with the passing TDL.. and upcoming season end.. I'm sure he will assess.

I did enjoy the game last night, but realized it was it was because Desjardins hand is forced to play prospects and new faces because of injuries, and the loss of 2 key vets in Hansen and Burrows.

 

 

 

 

[mll]

12 hours ago, JamesB said:

As captain, Henrik speaks for the team and is right to say "we" most of the time. But he could still throw in the odd individual mea culpa. Tonight he could said something like -- "It  hurt to give up the puck to Marchand on his second goal. I was tired but I should have protected the puck better." But hindsight is always easier. I have no problem with the way Henrik has handled the job as captain. Through good times and bad he always does his best with the media.

 

The Sedins still get tremendous respect from the fan base. The problem is not that fans can't accept age-related decline. Of course they can. Everyone knows that very few 36 year olds can play effectively in the NHL and it is very impressive that the Sedins are playing as well as they are.

 

I think the issue is the fans are unhappy with

a. Deployment.

The Sedins have been getting too much ice time all season. At this stage they are pretty much exhausted. You can see it in their faces, even at the start of games, let alone in the third period. At there age they should be getting much more protected minutes. And while they did not get a lot of time against the Marchand line tonight, they got some. They should not be going up against the opponent's top line at this point in their careers and at this point in the season if it can be avoided.

 

b. Personnel.

The problems is not that the Sedins are declining with age. The problem is that no-one else has taken over. On a good team the Sedin line would have the second line two or three years ago. At this stage Horvat is the best forward on the team. But, realistically, Horvat is an excellent 2C, but is probably not 1C on a good team and no one else on the team is close to being a legitimate first liner.

 

Eriksson has been a very expensive failure, Virtanen has been a disappointment. The Canucks could have, and arguably should have Nylander (48 pts in the NHL this year so far in his draft+3 year) and Tkachuk (44 pts so far in his draft+1 year!).

 

No one would be happier than the Sedins themselves if there was another forward combo that could push them down the depth chart. The fact that it has not happened yet when they are 36 is a big disappointment.

 

It is understandable that a lot of fans are unhappy.

 

 

He did - he blamed himself and nearly said word for word what you suggested on the Marchand goal (save being too tired).  

WD significantly cut back their ice time this game - 16:30 only while Baer-Horvat were 21min.  The Sedins have played too much up to now and it does feel like they are lacking energy.  Hopefully a more reasonable distribution of their ice time can happen next season as others cut into their responsibilities.  

 

They need to decide on wingers for the Horvat line.  It's difficult to take on a bigger role when it's now a revolving door of wingers and some of them barely qualify as NHLers whether for lack of skill or experience.  Sounds like the hope is for Eriksson to be a fit and WD said he wants to try Granlund there.  

 

I don't see how the Sedins can be sheltered from the top lines - even if their minutes get scaled back their deployment is not going to change.  The team is still missing a playmaking C.  Horvat's line is not deployed as an offensive line à la Sedins but more as a shutdown line that is expected to put up points.   He starts mostly in the d-zone against the other team's scoring line - he was just talking of how tough his matchups are now at F and D.  I guess the make-up of the line can be questioned but it's not like there are a lot of options.

[DSVII]

1 hour ago, Kakanucks said:

RANT.

 

For those that keep mentioning there are a handful of teams they'd rather watch than the Canucks right now, then by all means please just go. Show with your actions than coming here on the Canucks forum and saying how much you hate watching them.

 

I come here for my team, which is the Canucks, and no, I'm not delusional into thinking everything is puppies and rainbows with the team. But I also don't come here to constantly read negative garbage about the one team I support.

 

Yes the Sedins are old and slowing down, and sometimes their play on the ice causes bad results. But who doesn't? Horvat was just one the ice for 2 OT losses prior. As long as any player is still on the Canucks roster and donning our jersey, I will still 100% support them. It's called "we are all canucks" for a reason.

 

Don't reply to tell me how I'm a homer, or to justify the negative crap that is on here.

 

Rant over.

We're homers too ya know. I do love this team, but have just been frustrated by every moment of it in it's current state and direction.

 

We're stuck with each other it seems ;). Everything isn't doom and gloom, but it's purgatory at the moment and that's unacceptable. There's some serious issues with this team and the decisions made over the last two years.  Because I love this team, i feel particularly worried when moves are seemingly hurting this team's future and we express our opinion on the forum. That's all. I'm sure some of the other fans that are being labelled as negative feel the same way. 

 

Doesn't mean i'll stop watching them even if other team's are more entertaining (Went to an SJ/ANA game recently and it was like watching hockey in a different universe, much faster paced!).

 

Hell, i've been to more live games since 2014 than any previous GMs. I've been to 2 of those california road trips. I bought into the retool JB and TL sold in 2014, but it feels like a bill of false goods at this point. 

 

And yes, there are negative people out there who hate the canucks or were just bitter after being burned so many times, I had a 'fan' in a nucks hat tell me we were the worst hockey franchise in the league, another telling me they always knew the nucks would choke in game 7 in 2011 the day after. 

 

Guess i'm just hopeful about this community but i don't see any of those kinds of fans who provide criticism posting here. Trolls aside. 

[Bo053]

25 minutes ago, Kakanucks said:

And last time I check this was the Canucks forum, and not just Hockey in General forum.

 

Just because I'm a JUST Canucks fan as you want to call it, doesn't mean I'm not a Hockey fan as well. Anyone that watches the Canucks play is pretty much a hockey fan, you don't become a fan of a hockey club if you don't like the sport hockey in general.

Exactly, and just because people appreciate the fact that there are better teams in the league worth watching doesn't mean they aren't still Canuck fans as well.

[ilduce39]

Hank's the captain... it's his job to say that stuff.  

 

He also presided over the most dynamic teams in franchise history... so he knows a thing or two about how far we need to improve.  

 

The CDC guide to player development:

 

-give young guys all the ice time.  5v5, PP, all of it.

 

-never, under any circumstances, take that ice time away.

 

-play the young guys together as a line - nobody over 25 or it's ruined.

 

-don't you dare allude to any mistakes in the media.  Not even under the blanket of a "we"

 

If you don't follow these rules all offensive capability shall wither along with their confidence.  Our once promising rookies will quit the sport and spend their prime years backpacking through Asia trying in vain to find themselves once more.  Albertan fans will chortle with glee as college free agents shun our team for fear of such awful treatment.  Toronto fans will think we're uncool and won't let us sit with them at lunchtime... oh no!

[wallstreetamigo]

4 hours ago, ilduce39 said:

Hank's the captain... it's his job to say that stuff.  

 

He also presided over the most dynamic teams in franchise history... so he knows a thing or two about how far we need to improve.  

 

The CDC guide to player development:

 

-give young guys all the ice time.  5v5, PP, all of it.

 

-never, under any circumstances, take that ice time away.

 

-play the young guys together as a line - nobody over 25 or it's ruined.

 

-don't you dare allude to any mistakes in the media.  Not even under the blanket of a "we"

 

If you don't follow these rules all offensive capability shall wither along with their confidence.  Our once promising rookies will quit the sport and spend their prime years backpacking through Asia trying in vain to find themselves once more.  Albertan fans will chortle with glee as college free agents shun our team for fear of such awful treatment.  Toronto fans will think we're uncool and won't let us sit with them at lunchtime... oh no!

These are the kind of posts I really dislike. No one other than MAYBE a handful of extreme people are saying any of that.

 

They are saying the vets need their time reduced and we need to see what some of these young players have when given more time and opportunity. It's actually common sense considering the vet/plug approach isn't actually resulting in us being any better now. The fact is, we are a better team and play better when the young guys are at the forefront.

 

If Hank knows what they need to do to improve, as captain isn't it his job to stop talking about it and go out and actually do it himself? He personally is giving the puck away on bad passes at least a few times every game. He personally is a defensive drain on the team. Maybe instead of we he should take it back to he and go from there.

[ilduce39]

1 hour ago, wallstreetamigo said:

These are the kind of posts I really dislike. No one other than MAYBE a handful of extreme people are saying any of that.

 

They are saying the vets need their time reduced and we need to see what some of these young players have when given more time and opportunity. It's actually common sense considering the vet/plug approach isn't actually resulting in us being any better now. The fact is, we are a better team and play better when the young guys are at the forefront.

 

If Hank knows what they need to do to improve, as captain isn't it his job to stop talking about it and go out and actually do it himself? He personally is giving the puck away on bad passes at least a few times every game. He personally is a defensive drain on the team. Maybe instead of we he should take it back to he and go from there.

I'd suggest you don't like it because it hits a little close to home, despite the hyperbole.

[wallstreetamigo]

8 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

I'd suggest you don't like it because it hits a little close to home, despite the hyperbole.

Lol no it doesn't at all actually. 

 

I dont like it because its a stupid assertion that I have not seen anyone actually say on here. It's just something you are exaggerating because the coach's weaknesses hit too close to home for you.

[ilduce39]

2 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Lol no it doesn't at all actually. 

 

I dont like it because its a stupid assertion that I have not seen anyone actually say on here. It's just something you are exaggerating because the coach's weaknesses hit too close to home for you.

Wait, what?

 

You're taking that post waaaay too seriously for a guy ending on an, "I know you are but what am I."

[wallstreetamigo]

2 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

Wait, what?

 

You're taking that post waaaay too seriously for a guy ending on an, "I know you are but what am I."

Nah, just returning the favor

[6string]

23 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

I know this team was never going to get many wins.  I just wish it was harder to play against physically.  It would have brought me so much joy to see some big hits against the Bruins, or have someone crosscheck Marchand in the throat. 

 

This team not only has a boring style to watch, not only loses all the time but it's still just as soft as ever. 

Interesting and spot on about being "soft as ever"....over the years not a single GM could find a Lucic or Chris Neil type of player to lineup with the Sedins in their prime when the going got tough just baffles me, it was a deal that had to be made!

[JamesB]

10 hours ago, mll said:

He did - he blamed himself and nearly said word for word what you suggested on the Marchand goal (save being too tired).  

WD significantly cut back their ice time this game - 16:30 only while Baer-Horvat were 21min.  The Sedins have played too much up to now and it does feel like they are lacking energy.  Hopefully a more reasonable distribution of their ice time can happen next season as others cut into their responsibilities.  

 

They need to decide on wingers for the Horvat line.  It's difficult to take on a bigger role when it's now a revolving door of wingers and some of them barely qualify as NHLers whether for lack of skill or experience.  Sounds like the hope is for Eriksson to be a fit and WD said he wants to try Granlund there.  

 

I don't see how the Sedins can be sheltered from the top lines - even if their minutes get scaled back their deployment is not going to change.  The team is still missing a playmaking C.  Horvat's line is not deployed as an offensive line à la Sedins but more as a shutdown line that is expected to put up points.   He starts mostly in the d-zone against the other team's scoring line - he was just talking of how tough his matchups are now at F and D.  I guess the make-up of the line can be questioned but it's not like there are a lot of options.

I agree with your analysis and I agree that there are not a lot of options left for this season. What the Canucks need but do not have is a couple of legitimate first line wingers. There is a long list of guys who we hope can develop into first line wingers over the next couple years and maybe get the Canucks into the playoffs a couple of years down the road. Developing into a legitimate first line winger is not easy. I just the NHL scoring stats. There are about 100 players who have played 30 or more games who are scoring at the rate of about .67 PPG or better, so that is a reasonable cutoff for being a legitimate first liners in terms of scoring. Legitimate second line scoring is normally taken as about .5PPG or better.

 

Some possibilities include:

 

Baertschi --he has done well to become a legitimate 2nd liner and, as this age, probably has only a bit more development ahead, so the first line level is not likely.

Boeser -- has done well in the NCAA but the transition to the NHL is always tough. I think he is likely to be a legitimate second liner but getting the first line level is less than 50-50.

Goldobin --has done well in the AHL and guys like him have become good first liners in the past, but still less than 50-50.

Dahlen -- looks like a very good prospect. Still a lot of uncertainty given his age.

 

Granlund right now is maybe a legitimate second liner/maybe a third iiner. Eriksson is unlikely to ever to be a legitimate first liner again. Boucher, Chaput, etc. are big longshots, as is Virtanen.

 

And there is whoever the Canucks draft his this year.

 

Will two of these guys emerge as good first liners? Maybe, but I wouldn't count on it.

 

 

[CanadianRugby]

59 minutes ago, 6string said:

Interesting and spot on about being "soft as ever"....over the years not a single GM could find a Lucic or Chris Neil type of player to lineup with the Sedins in their prime when the going got tough just baffles me, it was a deal that had to be made!

Yeah that would have been a dream come true a few years ago.  However, the team had already given up all their prospects/picks to build the team they had.  How many intimidating players are there that are good enough to play on an elite team, on an elite top line.  I don't think Neil was good enough, so Burrows was fine on that line.  But having a Neil in your bottom 6 back then?  That would have been awesome.  Bieksa was a middleweight and had to do all the heavy lifting back then. 

[ice orca]

5 hours ago, 6string said:

Interesting and spot on about being "soft as ever"....over the years not a single GM could find a Lucic or Chris Neil type of player to lineup with the Sedins in their prime when the going got tough just baffles me, it was a deal that had to be made!

Pretty hard to find a guy like that to play with the Sedin's, although Gillis and Aquaman tried pretty hard to land Doan in 2012.