BigTramFan Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 The Canucks have built some good depth in their Defense. And when you look in detail they have now built some options and depth at wing. When the Sedins have gone at the end of the next season...What we really will NEED is some more top 6 centre potential. As of right now we only have Horvat and Gaudette. And Gaudette will not be ready for the NHL in 12 months. I expect he might debut in 2019 and might be ready for top 6 in 2020 at earliest. I am happy to be patient for the young Canucks to develop properly but we cannot just bank on Bo and Adam. I think we have to find a way to both TRADE and DRAFT for potential Top 6 centres. We need to add at least 2 more to that list of Horvat and Gaudette. I know how many of you have said let's just draft a C with our Top 5 pick in 2017. Yes but we also need to trade for someone with top 6 C proven/potential ability. A Reinhart/Nylander/Duchene/RNH. This won't be cheap but I think it's too risky for our rebuild if we don't do this. And I think we need to do it now. I'm not saying we can't look to improve other positions over the next few years but I think we are looking OK in comparison... Existing/Potential top 6 wingers: Eriksson (yeah I know but fingers crossed he improves) Baer Granlund (more a winger than C at NHL level imo) Boeser Goldobin Dahlen Lockwood Virtanen Rodin Existing/Potential bottom 6 NHL forwards: Sutter Gaunce Chaput Dorsett Boucher Cramarossa Stafford Labate Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 I agree, center quality and depth is one of the key components of a Cup winning core. Look at the good playoff teams in the past - they usually have around 6 bonified NHL centers in their lineup who can play wing as well. Boston had 7 when they beat us. Pittsburgh have plenty. Chicago have at least 5 guys who can win faceoffs. I think a bigger part of having this many versatile players is that centers are naturally more trained defensively, meaning that a lot of these team's wingers are fantastic defensively, can kill penalties and play a decent two-way game which is instrumental in the playoffs. That being said, look at our current center depth: 1) Horvat 2) Sutter 3) Henrik Sedin 4) Gaunce 5) Chaput 6) Gaudette 7) Cassels Goldobin and Dahlen are still more or less un-proven and have been mainly used at the wing so far, but they are an example of nice versatile centers who can play wing. When #2 and #3 start to drop off over time, we'll need some replacements there and hopefully Goldobin or Dahlen can fill in their roles, if not Gaudette (if he stays with us). We still desperately need to bulk up in the top end there. Plenty of bottom-6 centers (may add another with Aston-Reese) but not much quality apart from Horvat so far. A guy like Reinhart, Hirschier or Nolan would finish this squad and really give us what we need, and if I were Benning I'd be willing to give what it takes to get him. Whether it be our 1st round pick (4-7th overall most likely) + a young defenceman or someone like Virtanen, I'd do it. Players like Virtanen are easily replaceable. We've got lots of young D-men who are replaceable. That star top-2 center who can complement Horvat is hard to come by. I'd rather go for Hirschier or Nolan as they're younger than Reinhart and give us a wider contending window, but either of those 3 (or similar players) would be what we need. We need that 1-2 punch again, similar to Henrik-Kesler, and Hirschier/Nolan/Reinhart - Horvat gives us just that, with Sutter-Gaudette/Gaunce/ZAR as a very solid bottom-2. Gives us the flexibility of putting Goldobin and Dahlen onto the wing as versatile center-wingers who can step into win faceoffs at times and fill into center in case of injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted March 14, 2017 Author Share Posted March 14, 2017 38 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said: That being said, look at our current center depth: 1) Horvat 2) Sutter 3) Henrik Sedin 4) Gaunce 5) Chaput 6) Gaudette 7) Cassels Great reply. I agree with most of your points. Definitely agree that those wingers that can cover centre give you flexibility and depth on the roster. But I definitely see Goldobin, Dahlen, Granlund as playmaking wingers at NHL level with ability to cover or take face offs if required. I'm all for drafting a potential 1/2C but given the odds of these things turning out, I reckon we need to go for BOTH a drafted center AND a young NHL player/prospect that has top 6 specialist center potential. This is is too important and critical to our future to ignore. As as a side point, most people seem to think signing ZAR is not going to happen. I don't know but I tend to agree that it's unlikely he will choose the Canucks over other suitors (despite the Boeser connection). Your list of our current C depth (which looks like a long list) backs up my original point - that we're not as stacked as you'd think. 1) Horvat - yep 2) Sutter - 3rd line 3) Henrik - gone soon 4) Gaunce - bottom 6 C/W 5) Chaput - probably 4th line 6) Gaudette - a long way off and may not be a top 6 7) Cassels - is he even an NHL level player? Hoping JB is feeling this is an urgent need as much as we are!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaerToBo Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Maybe trade for RNH as a reclemation project and draft a high risk/high reward tyle forward like Middelstadt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 1 hour ago, BigTramFan said: Great reply. I agree with most of your points. Definitely agree that those wingers that can cover centre give you flexibility and depth on the roster. But I definitely see Goldobin, Dahlen, Granlund as playmaking wingers at NHL level with ability to cover or take face offs if required. I'm all for drafting a potential 1/2C but given the odds of these things turning out, I reckon we need to go for BOTH a drafted center AND a young NHL player/prospect that has top 6 specialist center potential. This is is too important and critical to our future to ignore. As as a side point, most people seem to think signing ZAR is not going to happen. I don't know but I tend to agree that it's unlikely he will choose the Canucks over other suitors (despite the Boeser connection). Your list of our current C depth (which looks like a long list) backs up my original point - that we're not as stacked as you'd think. 1) Horvat - yep 2) Sutter - 3rd line 3) Henrik - gone soon 4) Gaunce - bottom 6 C/W 5) Chaput - probably 4th line 6) Gaudette - a long way off and may not be a top 6 7) Cassels - is he even an NHL level player? Hoping JB is feeling this is an urgent need as much as we are!!! I completely agree, and exactly my point as well. Of those 7 guys, Horvat and Sutter are the only 2 bonified NHLers, and Sutter won't be around for much longer too. He's a 3rd line center on most teams, and if you want to contend for the Cup you can't have him at 20 minutes a night as a 2nd line center. That leaves Horvat as the only top-6 center, Sutter as a great 3rd line center and the rest is all fluff - borderline AHLers. Gaunce and Chaput don't crack 26 of the other NHL lineups right now. I still believe Gaunce has 4th line center abilities, offence will come but his foundations are solid, good defence and a great PKer which is all you really need. Chaput is a bit in the middle of everything to be consistently useful - a bit of skill, a bit of speed, not great defensively or on the PK or big/physical enough. I say he sits as our 13th forward/AHL center for the majority. Gaudette is a real wild-card, he just opted to stay at college so may not even sign with us and if he does, who knows how his game will translate to the NHL but I doubt he's a future top-6 center on a consistent basis. 3rd-4th line center at best. Cassels is a write-off for now, he's struggling in the AHL, give him the Gaunce treatment and let him slowly work his way up over the next 2-3 years but he's a 4th line NHL center/Chaput at best. I agree with your point - we need a couple of centers, but really need 1 future young stud in our top-6 and the rest we can bulk out with UFA signings. Go hard for Hirschier or Nolan. Go hard for Reinhart. We've got the assets. We've got a high first rounder that might be able to be traded up. Vilardi and Middlestatd are tempting but I doubt they end up being consistent top-6 scorers, they look like big strong 3rd line centers to me. We need that elite skilled center to take some pressure off Horvat. Proposal: Vancouver's 1st round pick (4-7th overall) + Virtanen + Subban for Coyotes 2nd overall pick. They're rebuilding, they could use the young talent. We trade a future 2-3rd line center in Vilardi/Middlestatd + a future 3rd/4th line powerforward + a future fringe NHL/AHLer wildcard for one of Hirschier or Nolan (ideally Hirschier). There's our future first line center. Quantity for quality, sure, but it's decent quality quantity for one future star. We can replace Virtanen with just about any UFA and Subban's role is already replaced. Besides, Arizona have Keller anyway, they won't want to waste a 2nd overall pick. They also have Strome. This is the team we need to hit. If Arizona have decided what they want to do with their centers, including the 2nd overall pick (Nolan/Hirschier), Keller and Strome, we could surely snag one of those 3. Keller looks like he'll be the first line center. Domi's still there fitting in somewhere. Strome had a great season but would be a very solid 2nd line center and those 3 would be three of the best young centers in the league. They've essentially got two first line centers in Strome and Keller, a great 3C in Domi, and no reason to draft a Nolan or Hirschier. They might as well draft Liljegren, but he may fall as low as 5-8th, so they might as well take the Vancouver pick, get some depth forward/defensive depth at the same time. Alternatively, if Arizona want a change of guard at center, we could make a play for one of Strome/Domi. Keller looks untouchable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=132239 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 B P A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken kaniff Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 What do you think it would take to get Reinhart? Our 1st this year + Hutton? Maybe more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliboy Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 My fear is we go through this process but don't come out of it with a true McDavid/Mathews type franchise player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 3 minutes ago, aliboy said: My fear is we go through this process but don't come out of it with a true McDavid/Mathews type franchise player. We don't need the McDavid, Matthews, Toews, Crosby, Doughty type of player to win a .Cup though. The Bruins (hated bast**ds) won without one, didn't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 48 minutes ago, ken kaniff said: What do you think it would take to get Reinhart? Our 1st this year + Hutton? Maybe more. If we're out of the top 5 I wouldn't be opposed doing that. Although I'd really like to take Tippett if we're in the 5-7 range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 There are some good C options in this draft for us. Depending on how Bettmans balls drop...er i mean lotto balls... we could select anywhere between 1 and 10 as it stands today. So Patrick or Hischier obviously if we're lucky, but there are actually 6 decent options for a future 2C in the top 10 North American skaters- http://www.nhl.com/ice/draftprospectbrowse.htm If we get unlucky and drop to 8, even Glass is a good option, he's having a huge season in Portland (where Jim lives in the offseason so he probably has a good line on this kid). If we get super unlucky and drop to 10th pick, then maybe Jim takes a flyer on some Euro skater none of us have ever heard of that he scouted personally. For me Bo's progression makes the hunt for a "1C" a bit irrelevant, and if the timing and draft gods are handing us an elite 2C OK then, Bo's made the situation better than anyone thought at the start of this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Where'd Luongo? Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 2 hours ago, D-Money said: B P A That stuff will kill ya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Where'd Luongo? said: That stuff will kill ya! When you have a top pick, always should take the Best Player Available. Who knows what your needs will be when the player pans out? Two years ago we needed size and grit on the wing, so took Virtanen over the more skilled Ehlers and Nylander. Then last year, since we supposedly had our top-6 grit in Virtanen, we passed on Tkachuk to take Juolevi. Of course, we needed a top-4 D-man with puck-moving ability...since we hadn't signed Stetcher yet. Although Virtanen and Juolevi may still be valuable players one day, I think it's safe to say we'd be better off today with Ehlers/Nylander and Tkachuk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
combover Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Funny because that's what gillis preached from day one. Strong down the middle got us a bunch of trophies and a cup final. With the development of Horvat and gaunce (both gillis picks I might add) and sutter (a solid third liner) down the middle starting to look pretty good we just need another top 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Where'd Luongo? Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 1 hour ago, D-Money said: When you have a top pick, always should take the Best Player Available. Who knows what your needs will be when the player pans out? Two years ago we needed size and grit on the wing, so took Virtanen over the more skilled Ehlers and Nylander. Then last year, since we supposedly had our top-6 grit in Virtanen, we passed on Tkachuk to take Juolevi. Of course, we needed a top-4 D-man with puck-moving ability...since we hadn't signed Stetcher yet. Although Virtanen and Juolevi may still be valuable players one day, I think it's safe to say we'd be better off today with Ehlers/Nylander and Tkachuk. I was just joshin ya. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 We will be drafting one of Mittlestadt Vilardi Pettersson without a doubt. Its starting to get crowded in the cupboards I'm thinking JB is putting together a package maybe Tanev + Bae/Granlund for some high end talent at fwd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 10 hours ago, BaerToBo said: Maybe trade for RNH as a reclemation project and draft a high risk/high reward tyle forward like Middelstadt? I really don't want RNH at 6m unless they are taking Eriksson back. Even if we did RNH for Sbisa straight up we would be handing EDM the keys to the castle in terms of the Cap relief they need to sign Leon and plan for McD's raise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cripplereh Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Horvat Sutter Sedin Gaunce Dahlen Gaudette Cassels Granlund Think we have many Centers and gaudette and dahlen look pretty good and could become a 2nd line Center after the twins are gone after next year meaning we will have 3 2nd line centers unless Bo takes off and becomes a 1st or one of the others do which again leaves me to think we do not need to get another unless via trade with one of our D and one Center to upgrade drafting another one or two good centers is always awesome as you can like granlund make them wingers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morrissex95 Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 Tanev + Hutton + Boeser + 2018 2nd to Buffalo for Reinhart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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