5 European UFA Skaters to Target

[riffraff]

2 hours ago, ItsMillerTime said:

Played with a player who was on Team Australia. I was skating circles around him.

Counter clockwise?

[riffraff]

3 hours ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

If they can play hockey and be committed to the team, we should be chasing to get the best players available, regardless what their race is.

JB:  "so kid.  Will you step over a dead body for the cup?"

 

eurokid:  "the World Cup?"

 

jb: "don't call us. Well call you."

[Crabcakes]

3 hours ago, cuporbust said:

I guess Nikita didnt get the memo. 

 

What were they thinking takin tryamkin when they could have had a good ol Canadian boy like Brett Lernout right..........

 

 

How bout we just take the best player and not worry about what country he went to pre school in. 

Ya, ask Jamie Benn about picking fights with "soft" Euro's

[Time Lord]

Can't believe there's still so much European hate. It's so illogical and disrespectful.

[Gurn]

30 minutes ago, Time Lord said:

Can't believe there's still so much European hate. It's so illogical and disrespectful.

The internet, and the world are becoming scary places, Euro hate is just one of a myriad of symptons.

[luckylager]

4 hours ago, cuporbust said:

I guess Nikita didnt get the memo. 

 

What were they thinking takin tryamkin when they could have had a good ol Canadian boy like Brett Lernout right..........

 

 

How bout we just take the best player and not worry about what country he went to pre school in. 

Dude, Tram isn't European. *Russia is not in Europe.*  Guess you missed that memo!

 

IMO, looking for UFA's in Euro League doesn't make much sense right now considering we have ample passive, skill guys coming through the system. That's what I was getting at.

 

In the draft, I'm fine with BPA, nationality be damned. But if we're trolling for more undrafted UFA's, I'd prefer players with a heavier game, like those you find in College. 

 

[cuporbust]

8 minutes ago, luckylager said:

Dude, Tram isn't European. *Russia is not in Europe.*  Guess you missed that memo!

 

IMO, looking for UFA's in Euro League doesn't make much sense right now considering we have ample passive, skill guys coming through the system. That's what I was getting at.

 

In the draft, I'm fine with BPA, nationality be damned. But if we're trolling for more undrafted UFA's, I'd prefer players with a heavier game, like those you find in College. 

 

Close enough 

[luckylager]

7 minutes ago, cuporbust said:

Close enough 

Convenient...

I've always held Russians to their own class, their style of play and level of aggression isn't very "Euro". 

 

But you still failed to address how we're supposed to find physical players in Europe. We have a ton of skill coming through and will need some weight to compliment it. I'm still not excited about either of those guys unless it says "plays a very physical game" on Ejdsell's scouting report. I bet he's fricken slow too.

 

[MattJVD]

Even if you don't count Tram(our leader in hits) as European, Sbisa is 2nd.

[cuporbust]

18 minutes ago, luckylager said:

Convenient...

I've always held Russians to their own class, their style of play and level of aggression isn't very "Euro". 

 

But you still failed to address how we're supposed to find physical players in Europe. We have a ton of skill coming through and will need some weight to compliment it. I'm still not excited about either of those guys unless it says "plays a very physical game" on Ejdsell's scouting report. I bet he's fricken slow too.

 

Lol.  I know what u were getting at, was just sayin. 

 

I'm not opposed to size and toughness obviously. We have virt coming up , and bottom 6 are not built the way they used to be. The game has changed. We do need size and grit , just not as much as we used to. We have guddy, tram, virtanen , Sbisa , maybe pedan, dorsett ... Plus whoever we sign as a UFA. Id rather seen them draft 2 way skill and sign size. 

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

7 hours ago, RRypien37 said:

But why look to add 28-30 year old players with no NHL experience?

First off, Dadonov does have NHL and AHL experience. But that aside, the reason you'd add them is because they both provide potential "plug-and-play" top-six, and potentially first line, level scoring to a lineup.

 

Sure they don't represent a youth movement. But they might represent an excellent short term replacement option for the Sedins, and provide two-thirds of a skilled, scoring line that could back-up Horvat's group while we build up the next core of young players.

 

And they are both in their prime and, if they worked out, could likely provide 3-5 years of excellent production.

 

Salary would be a bit of a challenge, especially next season while the twins still have their $14 million on the books. This could be somewhat mitigated by an Edler trade (with futures coming back) and possibly moving away from another higher salary player. But with the right moves, I don't think it would be entirely impossible to bring those Russian guys in without totally wrecking the team salary structure.

 

As for what they potentially bring to the table, here are some quotes from an article that provides some of the main "brush strokes" of their potential impact:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.fanragsports.com/nhl/radulovs-success-pave-way-khl-free-agents/amp/

 

Vadim Shipachyov

Those who pay attention to European free agent rumors will already have heard of Vadim Shipachyov, the 30-year-old center who’s been linked to a number of NHL teams (like the Florida Panthers and Montreal Canadiens) in the past.

Quick scouting reports describe Shipachyov as a play-making center with plenty of skill and an ability to create offense. The numbers reflect that, and in the past three seasons, Shipachyov has totaled 187 points in 150 games, with 134 of those points being assists. The 6’1″ center has been absolute dynamite this season, scoring 24 goals and adding 49 assists for a total of 73 points in just 47 games.

Using Shipachyov’s last three seasons as a reference point, we can look at league equivalencies, and get an expected NHL point total (NHLe) over a full 82 game season. With 187 points in 150 games, Shipachyov has an NHLe of 81. Radulov also had an NHLe of 80, so it might be unrealistic to expect a 30-year-old Russian center to average a point-per-game in the NHL, but Shipachyov could realistically put up 50-60 points in the league next season.

That’s worth a look, and teams in need of some scoring depth down the middle should be open to taking a flyer on the Russian center.

 

Evgeni Dadonov

Evgeni Dadonov was originally drafted by the Florida Panthers back in 2007, and played 55 games for the team from 2009-2012. Frustrated with constantly being sent back to the AHL, Dadonov left for the KHL, where he’s a consistent point producer for SKA St. Petersburg.

Playing alongside Vadim Shipachyov has certainly helped, and the two have been one of the best duos in the KHL over the past three seasons. While Shipachyov is more of a playmaker, Dadonov is happy to be a goal scorer, and he’s tallied 72 total goals in 162 total games. Add in his assists, and the 27-year-old forward has 154 points over the last three seasons.

That’s an NHLe of 62, indicating that Dadonov has top-six NHL potential. He may need to play alongside a skilled center, but adding a player who can score 20 or more goals in a season would be huge for any team in need of scoring depth.

 

Now it would undoubtedly be a huge gamble, especially to bring both guys in (and move out the pieces necessary to make it work financially). But that's where scouting comes in. Hopefully our Euro/KHL pro scouts will have the ability to determine whether or not these guys can be impact players at the NHL level. But we do know that several NHL teams, many known to have strong scouting departments, have been interested in adding these players to their lineups.

 

Whether or not Vancouver can compete

with other NHL teams is yet another question, and one I don't know the answer to. But I certainly wouldn't be against the Canucks taking a good hard look at these two players.

 

[RRypien37]

2 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

First off, Dadonov does have NHL and AHL experience. But that aside, the reason you'd add them is because they both provide potential "plug-and-play" top-six, and potentially first line, level scoring to a lineup.

 

Sure they don't represent a youth movement. But they might represent an excellent short term replacement option for the Sedins, and provide two-thirds of a skilled, scoring line that could back-up Horvat's group while we build up the next core of young players.

 

And they are both in their prime and, if they worked out, could likely provide 3-5 years of excellent production.

 

Salary would be a bit of a challenge, especially next season while the twins still have their $14 million on the books. This could be somewhat mitigated by an Edler trade (with futures coming back) and possibly moving away from another higher salary player. But with the right moves, I don't think it would be entirely impossible to bring those Russian guys in without totally wrecking the team salary structure.

 

As for what they potentially bring to the table, here are some quotes from an article that provides some of the main "brush strokes" of their potential impact:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.fanragsports.com/nhl/radulovs-success-pave-way-khl-free-agents/amp/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now it would undoubtedly be a huge gamble, especially to bring both guys in (and move out the pieces necessary to make it work financially). But that's where scouting comes in. Hopefully our Euro/KHL pro scouts will have the ability to determine whether or not these guys can be impact players at the NHL level. But we do know that several NHL teams, many known to have strong scouting departments, have been interested in adding these players to their lineups.

 

Whether or not Vancouver can compete

with other NHL teams is yet another question, and one I don't know the answer to. But I certainly wouldn't be against the Canucks taking a good hard look at these two players.

 

All irrelevant info. You don't add these kinds of players to a rebuilding bottom dweller. 

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

Just now, RRypien37 said:

All unnecessary info. You don't add this kind of players to a rebuilding bottom dweller. 

You certainly don't trade away assets for these kinds of players when you're rebuilding.

 

However, there's nothing wrong with using free agency to bring in potential high end talents in the prime of their careers (if you can attract them to a team like ours). Especially ones that might be available as a decent cost (compared to similar talent free agents with more NHL history).

 

It's hard to say what kind of salaries these Russians would command (but they might include some level of a "show me" discount). I've seen some fairly knowledgable observers suggest they might be willing to come over in 2017-18 for fairly decent salary value and on shorter term deals. 

 

As such, we might be able to get some good production out of them for a couple seasons while we continue to build up the depth of our young players and prospects. 

 

And then we could just sell them for futures later.

 

I actually think a skilled, playmaking centre like Shipachyov could be helpful over the next couple years to some of our developing young wingers. 

 

We definitely are lacking a high end playmaking centre. Hopefully we draft one this year (or the next). But there's no guarantee that draft pick makes an immediate impact (and might very well need 2-3 years before they're ready to really contribute).

 

In the meantime, we probably need another centre who can help support and grow some of the young talent on the wings.

 

Ship is about the same age Larionov was when we acquired him. And Goldy is around Bure's age when those two played together. Certainly that arrangement paid some dividends.

 

Not say Shipachyov is Larionov or Goldobin is Bure, but just an example of the kind of benefit that can be has from adding a key, high level veteran to a rebuilding squad. Especially if such additions provide line options that can potentially bring out the best in our young, emerging players, and maybe even accelerate their development (if things really click).

 

And if Ship came in and became a 60 point centre, it even opens up options to possibly cash in on a veteran like Sutter. Especially if Horvat continues his rise, and maybe between Gaunce, and Gaudette not far off in the pipe, and the next draft picks,we have enough young players that can fill out the bottom six. 

 

And maybe we draft another potential high end centre, who starts on the third line and works his way up.

 

Hell, if Ship and Bo all of a sudden look like the spine of a pretty good top-six, and there's another high end centre prospect (2017 pick) coming up in the pipeline, then  maybe we seriously consider selling off the Sedins as rentals (even though I'd love them to retire Canucks), and use that return to further fuel the rebuild.

 

You just don't sign any of these Russian guys (or any future free agent acquisition) to another Loui Eriksson style deal with extended term and trade protection. Not during a rebuild. But adding a high level, prime aged player, on a short term deal without clauses can actually be a good way to support young player growth while also acquiring assets that can be sold off and bring further value to a rebuild. 

 

As for Dadonov, it's true that he'd take a spot away that might otherwise go to a younger player. But we did just shed two vets in Hansen and Burrows, so there might be room for another veteran player to mix in with our young group. And it remains questionable whether or not we have the current winger depth to make such a signing redundant (or for it to really block anybody from a lineup position they deserve).

 

And similar to Ship, maybe Dadonov comes in and provides solid goal scoring that helps his younger teammates raise their own games. And once the roster depth is such that several youngsters are really pushing for the top opportunities, you sell that "freely acquired" asset for a futures based return, and the cycle repeats itself.

 

It's a different version of rebuild on the fly. One where you are selective in the types of veteran talent you sprinkle into the lineup while bringing along the youth movement. One where you look for value in less obvious places. And one where you certainly don't sign vets to trade-proof and buyout-proof deals, but where you add them as short term investments that carry a "sell by date" that you always plan to cash in on once they've provided their service to the overall rebuild.

 

To be honest, I'm not even all that committed to the idea of signing these particular players. It's more just something I'm having a little fun with.

 

But that said, I do believe that players like Shipachyov and Dadonov could potentially provide very good value, if their skills translate, and if they were willing to come here (which is a very big "if") and sign reasonable deals to do so.

 

And I believe that the value they might provide is such that doesn't run contrary to the overall "rebuild" plan of getting younger and changing over this roster into a team that, a few years down the road, is almost entirely based around an exciting young core group of players (and one that's ready to compete for several years).

[ice orca]

10 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

Ya, ask Jamie Benn about picking fights with "soft" Euro's

Tryamkin isn't a euro, besides that wasn't much of a fight when 2 actual punches were thrown. But i guess according to CDC Tram killed Benn.

[riffraff]

Wow.

 

i really started a $&!#storm.  Or, snowflake storm.

[Standing_Tall#37]

11 hours ago, Time Lord said:

Can't believe there's still so much European hate. It's so illogical and disrespectful.

I can't believe how much anti-Canadian sentiment there is. 

[Standing_Tall#37]

12 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

Ya, ask Jamie Benn about picking fights with "soft" Euro's

Benn killed him... the only thing that saved him was his size. If Tram didn't have the reach he would have been knocked the &^@# out. 

[Crabcakes]

1 hour ago, ice orca said:

Tryamkin isn't a euro, besides that wasn't much of a fight when 2 actual punches were thrown. But i guess according to CDC Tram killed Benn.

If he's not a Euro, what is he?  Check your atlas, Russia is in Europe.

 

Ya, Tram doesn't know how to fight so it was more of a wrestling match.  Fighting is a learned skill.  What remains is that Benn did not return to the game and did not play the following game last night against Calgary.

[luckylager]

10 hours ago, cuporbust said:

Lol.  I know what u were getting at, was just sayin. 

 

I'm not opposed to size and toughness obviously. We have virt coming up , and bottom 6 are not built the way they used to be. The game has changed. We do need size and grit , just not as much as we used to. We have guddy, tram, virtanen , Sbisa , maybe pedan, dorsett ... Plus whoever we sign as a UFA. Id rather seen them draft 2 way skill and sign size. 

Sure, I can fully agree with that.

 

But just to be difficult, for fun - Find me a Russian that claims to be European - 

[theminister]

11 minutes ago, luckylager said:

Sure, I can fully agree with that.

 

But just to be difficult, for fun - Find me a Russian that claims to be European - 

Most Brits will completely disavow being European as well but it doesn't change the geography of where continents begin and end.

 

And I'm quite confident that people from St Petersburg and Moscow think of themselves as more European than Asian.

 

It's true that they likely see themselves as Russian first but in the same way many Quebecers prefer that view than being Canadian. Still....