Willie D needs to pipe down.

[wallstreetamigo]

Just now, nuck-lifer said:

Agreed , it doesn't matter who coached Bo , he is extremely self motivated and we're lucky to have this great example for everyone else.. I will give credit to Willie on Tram and Baer's developement. He has shown patience and tough love depending on what they need at the time, and it has paid off.

Granny, Hutton, and Gaunce probably would have developed as much or more under a different coach. Many can point to Granny improving so much, but he is a smart, confident player that had the drive to prove himself after Calgary so you really can't really credit that to Willie IMO.

Other than getting his conditioning up to the grind of an NHL season, Tryamkin was almost completely developed in the KHL. He was the player he is now over there so his development as an on ice player under Desjardins has actually been pretty limited.

[alfstonker]

35 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I talk like he has a lot more young players with offensive potential then he had when he got here. Just because you think every prospect and young player we have is garbage doesn't mean I do. 

 

The main problem is the coach has, like you, decided that these young players can't do the job without ever putting them in the spot to see. So he defaults to a garbage boring style of hockey that fits with what his preferred vets and AHL plugs can do. 

 

We have enough players now that could possibly be more effective in a more uptempo offensive style. But we won't see what that could look like under this coach. It doesn't fit with the Sedins lack of speed or the AHL guys lack of offensive skill.

Really? Name some young players I have said are garbage.

 

Who are we talking about. You whiners are all the same, broad generalisations without naming names.

 

Who are these players and when did we acquire them? Be specific.

 

Again explain your rather wooly last sentence. 

[alfstonker]

30 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Once again, all the credit for what goes right Development wise goes to Willie in your mind. But no responsibility for what doesn't go right is on him. You can't have that both ways unless you are a clueless Willie homer. He has actually failed with more project players and prospects than he has succeeded with. Many more actually. He has 3 who are progressing. He has McCann, Virtanen, Clendening, Vey, etc that have essentially been ruined developmentally not to mention the slew of prospects who we have no idea if they can live up to their potential and become anything useful because he won't give them any opportunity to show it either way.

 

One size fits all in a development approach is bound to produce some hits but will by its very nature also produce significant misses. 

 

You cant credit Willie for the successes without also putting responsibility for the failures on him too. It isn't all Willie when a player finds success and all the player when they don't, something you and other coach supporters like to expound often on here.

Like what? Explain.

 

Are you drunk? You are actually putting Virtanen and McCann's lack of success at Willie's door. Did you ever watch Clendenning? Vey was playing well and it was his personal life that caused him problems. If anything Willie showed maybe too much faith in him.

 

You just haven't a clue man. Go read what Baertschi said about WD or what his players said about him in Texas or MHT. 

 

I have never said it is ALL Willie. That is just what you want to make out I said.

[Boudrias]

10 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Other than getting his conditioning up to the grind of an NHL season, Tryamkin was almost completely developed in the KHL. He was the player he is now over there so his development as an on ice player under Desjardins has actually been pretty limited.

Hmm? So Larsen a KHL All-Star is a NHL fail but Tryamkin the beneficiary of KHL development is a success. Since I do not have the benefit of what Doug Lister has contributed to the development of these two players I cannot assume that he has done nothing. My critic of management, in hindsight mind you, was their desire to send Tryamkin to Utica and Tryamkin's refusal to do so. Tryamkin gambled on his long term relationship with the Canucks and management ended up working with him. No other option.

 

Contrary to Hutton's rookie season where he was most definitely overplayed, Tryamkin has logged about 16 minutes of TOI which is a better intro to the NHL. Tryamkin has had many good nights but also many games with serious errors. It is a process and coaching has done a good job of working him in.   

[alfstonker]

9 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

In theory this is true. However, when employing that strategy routinely leads to not only 30-40 shots against but also multiple quality shots from dangerous areas the team really isn't gaining that advantage. 

 

You dont have to trade end to end chances to play a more puck possession style. You just have to hang onto the puck instead of dumping it in or out and giving away possession. The absolute best way to limit other more talented teams is to not give them the puck every time you get it. Or make damn sure you are effectively employing the defensive shell strategy if you are going to do it. Unfortunately we really aren't all that effective at it. We collapse but still give up the middle of the ice far too often.

We didn't trade end to end chances. We outshot the Oilers 33-22. They also blocked 22 shots to our 12.

 

Puck possession is not about holding onto the puck at all costs it's about speedy transition and quick outlets. That is what WD is trying to do with this team. Anyone can see that especially if they watched the Oilers game.

 

However to do that consistently night after night requires a higher level of skill than we have throughout the team and a greater level of physicality, that is why the LA Kings and the Ducks are the top puck possession teams over the last few years.

 

Until our team gains more skill and size, sometimes dump and chase is the best fit for this team. Any good coach plays to his team's strengths. Willie has had THIS team for 2 seasons - not even that and yet some like you expect miracles. 

 

As for the "defensive shell strategy" have you any proof in fact that even works for anyone?

 

 

[stawns]

10 hours ago, Salmonberries said:

Boucher has played on what, four teams this year? And we acquired him on waivers. What exactly would you call him? If Boucher had played as much and in all the same situations here this year as Megna has I have the feeling you'd think of Boucher about what you think of Megna. Not very much. And why do I feel this way? Perhaps because a chronic shortage of legitimate NHL roster players and the resulting issue of being forced to use players in situations that are above their pay grade has been an ongoing theme around here for the past couple of years. It's a crazy carousel of sub mediocrity that we won't be getting off of for a while I'm afraid. No relief in sight.

Sometimes it's just a matter of timing and the right situation.  I'm not crazy about his defensive game, but he looks good in the ozone.  He's got a chance to stick in Van, it's down to character at this point.  If he's got lots of it, he can make it here.

[Quinn12]

Matthew Tkachuk would be 2nd in team scoring, 1 point behind Bo for scoring lead right now if he were a Canuck.

 

Now obviously he has done that in the Flames system, not ours, but even with our sad 2016-17 roster, plus Willie D benching/mishandling him/etc. he still would of had a solid rookie year with whoever was lucky enough to draft him.

 

How good would Horvat and Tkachuk look together..........

 

No way Juolevi can amount to him, he's no Lidstrom in the making Benning/Linden... Sigh

[CanuckGAME]

26 minutes ago, Quinn12 said:

Matthew Tkachuk would be 2nd in team scoring, 1 point behind Bo for scoring lead right now if he were a Canuck.

 

Now obviously he has done that in the Flames system, not ours, but even with our sad 2016-17 roster, plus Willie D benching/mishandling him/etc. he still would of had a solid rookie year with whoever was lucky enough to draft him.

 

How good would Horvat and Tkachuk look together..........

 

No way Juolevi can amount to him, he's no Lidstrom in the making Benning/Linden... Sigh

[Sweathog]

39 minutes ago, Quinn12 said:

Matthew Tkachuk would be 2nd in team scoring, 1 point behind Bo for scoring lead right now if he were a Canuck.

 

Now obviously he has done that in the Flames system, not ours, but even with our sad 2016-17 roster, plus Willie D benching/mishandling him/etc. he still would of had a solid rookie year with whoever was lucky enough to draft him.

 

How good would Horvat and Tkachuk look together..........

 

No way Juolevi can amount to him, he's no Lidstrom in the making Benning/Linden... Sigh

Juolevi hasn't even played an NHL game yet and you're already declaring Tkachuk better? Mark my words, Juolevi will end up having a very good NHL career. He might not be at Lidstrom's level but then again no defenseman currently playing is at his level either.

[wallstreetamigo]

Wow I really set Willie....oops I mean alfstonker off, didn't I.

 

I would respond to your drivel but honestly I can agree to disagree with you. You think Willie is the greatest coach and player developer in the history of the NHL. I think he is decidedly average at both. You think our team doesn't have any players who could score goals in a less suffocating style. I think we do. We can leave it at that.

[SilentSam]

Off topic a bit boys and girls, 

... but do we know what players are eligible to go down to Utica to help the Comets at the end of the Canucks season ?

I think it's:   Goldobrin, Guance, LaBate, Chaput, Boucher, .. .. ??

[TheOgRook]

3 hours ago, alfstonker said:

Like what? Explain.

 

Are you drunk? You are actually putting Virtanen and McCann's lack of success at Willie's door. Did you ever watch Clendenning? Vey was playing well and it was his personal life that caused him problems. If anything Willie showed maybe too much faith in him.

 

You just haven't a clue man. Go read what Baertschi said about WD or what his players said about him in Texas or MHT. 

 

I have never said it is ALL Willie. That is just what you want to make out I said.

The guy will twist and manipulate every post, article, quote. Just to fall in line with his agenda.  Combine that with the inability to ever admit you are wrong and boom.. here we are.  Makes it difficult to debate something with somebody who flip flops and twists things all the time. 

[mll]

17 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

Off topic a bit boys and girls, 

... but do we know what players are eligible to go down to Utica to help the Comets at the end of the Canucks season ?

I think it's:   Goldobrin, Guance, LaBate, Chaput, Boucher, .. .. ??

LaBate is on emergency recall.

To be playoff eligible, players need to be on the Utica roster at the TDL.  Only Goldobin and Gaunce were papered (sent down and recalled). 

Chaput and Boucher would have had to go through waivers.

[wallstreetamigo]

3 hours ago, Boudrias said:

Hmm? So Larsen a KHL All-Star is a NHL fail but Tryamkin the beneficiary of KHL development is a success. Since I do not have the benefit of what Doug Lister has contributed to the development of these two players I cannot assume that he has done nothing. My critic of management, in hindsight mind you, was their desire to send Tryamkin to Utica and Tryamkin's refusal to do so. Tryamkin gambled on his long term relationship with the Canucks and management ended up working with him. No other option.

 

Contrary to Hutton's rookie season where he was most definitely overplayed, Tryamkin has logged about 16 minutes of TOI which is a better intro to the NHL. Tryamkin has had many good nights but also many games with serious errors. It is a process and coaching has done a good job of working him in.   

Larsen also played in the AHL and NHL. Lots of his development came from there. He is also a very different player.

 

Tryamkin developed in the KHL and was very much the same player over there that he is now. He was not a raw player that the Canucks had to turn into that player. He still has a ways to go obviously but I do t think the Canucks can claim they made him much more than he already was yet.

 

Trying to send him to the AHL was almost a very costly mistake for the future of the Canucks. All because we wanted to keep and play Larsen who has shown his offensive game is not nearly enough to offset his defensive and physical deficiencies.

 

Again, the ice time thing is conveniently used as Willie's great development strategy. It doesn't explain why Stecher has received huge ice time though. Shouldn't he be spoon fed lower minutes too? It just shows as I have said that it's not about development it's about favourites with Willie. Conditioning, not knowing the system, and wanting to ease them into the NHL is just a convenient excuse to not play players he doesn't trust.

[wallstreetamigo]

14 minutes ago, TheOgRook said:

The guy will twist and manipulate every post, article, quote. Just to fall in line with his agenda.  Combine that with the inability to ever admit you are wrong and boom.. here we are.  Makes it difficult to debate something with somebody who flip flops and twists things all the time. 

It makes my day that people like you get worked up about someone having an opinion you don't agree with. If you can't debate the issues with me then just don't. I assure you it won't bother me to not have to answer your posts.

[Beary Sweet]

I personally think Willie is a great coach, both at developing and getting the most out of his players. Obviously his player deployment sometimes throws you off but usually he does it to give the team the best chance to win aka Megna in the top 6. Now with Granny out, Megna will probably be used more. It's not that bad since he does some good things out on the ice. He forechecks, battles along the boards for the puck, backchecks so it's all good. My concern is once Gaunce and Goldy get back, will Willie continue to give Megna more ice time just to get the two back into game shape after being out for a while... hopefully not. Gaunce and Goldy are going to be the heart and soul of this team going forward, not to mention Bo, Baer, Granny, etc. and they did promise the kids will get more ice time so not hoping that they get 15-20 minutes of ice time right away but probably around 5-10 minutes. We have to see what we have in both. They're both part of our future and hope they give more ice time to see if they have more to give

[HomeBrew]

[TheOgRook]

1 hour ago, wallstreetamigo said:

It makes my day that people like you get worked up about someone having an opinion you don't agree with. If you can't debate the issues with me then just don't. I assure you it won't bother me to not have to answer your posts.

It's pointless to argue with somebody that just twists and manipulates everything.. even your own posts.. and just like you are doing now.. you make people repeat themselves cause you refuse to admit that you may be wrong. Comes across as you think you know everything.  You are fine to have an opinion.. but you try to spin it as fact, which they are clearly not.  I hear Sean Spicer is hiring.  You should apply  

[SilentSam]

2 hours ago, mll said:

LaBate is on emergency recall.

To be playoff eligible, players need to be on the Utica roster at the TDL.  Only Goldobin and Gaunce were papered (sent down and recalled). 

Chaput and Boucher would have had to go through waivers.

But is there still an opportunity for Boeser and MacEwen to Utica as well.. thought I read that there was?

[wallstreetamigo]

22 minutes ago, TheOgRook said:

It's pointless to argue with somebody that just twists and manipulates everything.. even your own posts.. and just like you are doing now.. you make people repeat themselves cause you refuse to admit that you may be wrong. Comes across as you think you know everything.  You are fine to have an opinion.. but you try to spin it as fact, which they are clearly not.  I hear Sean Spicer is hiring.  You should apply  

I don't know everything. Just like it will be years before I am proven right or wrong when it comes to what is currently happening, same as you. It's called a discussion about various aspects of the team. I have opinions, you have opinions. Neither really impacts the team or what is going to happen or not happen. And unlike on your end, I don't really think it's important to try to prove you wrong or not nor is it important if people agree with me or not. I post here because I am a fan and have opinions. It shouldn't offend you and if it does then just ignore me.