Willie D needs to pipe down.

[wallstreetamigo]

55 minutes ago, Salmonberries said:

The things that go well around here can reliably be attributed the 'luck'. While the things that go wrong rest squarely on the shoulders of Willing Desjardins.

 

Oh well, ten more games and this coach is toast. Just wait until next year people. Things are going to be a lot different around here then. It'll be great, you;ll see!

I don't think that's what most are saying. Having said that, wouldn't you say that attributing all success solely to the coach while attributing any failure to the individual player, the lack of top end talent, etc is the exact same thing in reverse?

 

Desjardins has his good points and his bad points like any coach. Talking about them doesn't mean someone is laying all the blame on him at all. It just means that some of it can be directly attributed to him and his decisions. 

 

Its unfair on either side to blame him completely while ignoring his strengths and successes or crediting him completely while ignoring his failures and mistakes.

 

My opinion is that his weaknesses outweigh his strengths. You and others see it the opposite. And both have fair and reasonable arguments that can be made in support of that opinion. I don't get why it's so personal to so many though.

[Salmonberries]

25 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I don't think that's what most are saying. Having said that, wouldn't you say that attributing all success solely to the coach while attributing any failure to the individual player, the lack of top end talent, etc is the exact same thing in reverse?

 

Desjardins has his good points and his bad points like any coach. Talking about them doesn't mean someone is laying all the blame on him at all. It just means that some of it can be directly attributed to him and his decisions. 

 

Its unfair on either side to blame him completely while ignoring his strengths and successes or crediting him completely while ignoring his failures and mistakes.

 

My opinion is that his weaknesses outweigh his strengths. You and others see it the opposite. And both have fair and reasonable arguments that can be made in support of that opinion. I don't get why it's so personal to so many though.

I don`t see why it gets personal either. Very nuanced position you just articulated there by the way. I can find very little to disagree with there.

[alfstonker]

12 hours ago, coho8888 said:

And you do?  Have you coached in the NHL before?  Do you know what goes on during the practices?  Why is your opinion any more important than ours?  Maybe you should look in the mirror and see if your bias is the problem here.  

I don't use bias, and my opinion is usually backed up by fact and logic in a contextual way.

How ironic you try to infer that it takes a coach to tell a CDC poster he is not party to what is said in the Canucks room or what happens in practice. You see that's what I mean - logic.

[alfstonker]

11 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Obviously you have no clue how Tryamkin played in the KHL. You are far too biased wanting to think it was 100% Willie. It wasn't at all. Did he need some time to adjust to the NHL? Absolutely. Did he suddenly go from being a terrible player who needed to start putting things together to a good one under Desjardins? Nope, he was that player in the KHL long before Willie got a hold of him. That's really not debatable as fact. 

 

Keep towing the party line about giving out ice time fairly based on those things. Your coach will quietly keep proving you wrong by deploying players as top line/pairing and PP guys who have not learned or improved in his three years here and who are among the laziest defensive players on the team. 

You don't have to be a terrible player to need and benefit from coaching, a lot of it can be how a player "thinks the game" or showing him how to adjust.

 

Every time you post you litter it with "straw man arguments" in order to try and achieve some perceived advantage. It's like debating with a 6 year old. For example how do you think a player "adjusts to the NHL" - Watching slapshot every night? Let me help you out, it's called coaching and probably done in the most part by Lidster - and newsflash, he is still doing it.

By the way Willie obviously had faith in Try even when he was being coached because his average TOI in these 13 games was 17mins.

 

Your last para is a hummer.

You think ANY coach is going to demand two 36 year old legends (who were never fast or strong defensively to begin with) change their game to back checking shut down aces?

When will you realise we are 2 seasons into a rebuild and we will not be the kind of "pie in the sky team" you expect for at least another 3 seasons. While our PP is bad for pretty obvious reasons (despite them being a mystery to you) I wonder what excuse the Islanders, Panthers and Sharks have (all 3 of which have had more PP opportunities) and occupy the places just above us.

[Baggins]

5 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I don't think that's what most are saying. Having said that, wouldn't you say that attributing all success solely to the coach while attributing any failure to the individual player, the lack of top end talent, etc is the exact same thing in reverse?

 

Desjardins has his good points and his bad points like any coach. Talking about them doesn't mean someone is laying all the blame on him at all. It just means that some of it can be directly attributed to him and his decisions. 

 

Its unfair on either side to blame him completely while ignoring his strengths and successes or crediting him completely while ignoring his failures and mistakes.

 

My opinion is that his weaknesses outweigh his strengths. You and others see it the opposite. And both have fair and reasonable arguments that can be made in support of that opinion. I don't get why it's so personal to so many though.

Wait, Willie has good points? Reading your posts he comes across as the worst coach and player developer ever. Plus a complete idiot to boot.

 

Your a creature of extremes and exaggerations. Nobody I've seen has said Willie is solely responsible for success, but we're not fool enough to believe he had nothing at all to do with it. Just as I haven't seen anybody declaring him the best coach ever. Extremes and exaggeration.

 

You do have to admit there is a lack of top end talent coming Willies way though. At least so far. The best coach in the world can't turn a donkey into a race horse. Some players simply won't succeed at the NHL level. Others simply won't attain the level they enjoyed in junior and be the plow horses until something better comes along. While others still are just slow to catch on. No coach in the hockey world has successfully developed every pick or project into solid NHL players. Not a one.

 

That said, from the beginning Benning said he wanted to develop youth "the right way". The right way is the 200 foot game. Willie is right when he tells kids don't worry about the offense. Focus on the defense and the offense will come as a result. It's certainly worked for Bo. Very good in his own zone and excellent off the rush.

[TheOgRook]

8 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Calling someone stupid or saying they have no knowledge of hockey (simply because you don't agree with them) isn't arguing against their opinion, it's insulting them personally. It doesn't offend me at all though. For it to offend me I would have to care what you think. I just posted that because your approach makes you look like a hypocrite.

Like I said.. show me the quote where I called you stupid or it didn't happen and you are just twisting things like normal.  

[WeneedLumme]

8 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

...attributing all success solely to the coach...

When you insist on creating straw man arguments like this, you are demonstrating blatant dishonesty, which destroys whatever credibility you might have had.

[coho8888]

4 hours ago, alfstonker said:

I don't use bias, and my opinion is usually backed up by fact and logic in a contextual way.

How ironic you try to infer that it takes a coach to tell a CDC poster he is not party to what is said in the Canucks room or what happens in practice. You see that's what I mean - logic.

Having Coached in the Nhl gives you more credibility in what you are saying.  Facts and Logic are useless unless you can prove that they directly backup your opinion.  Others posting opinions contrary to yours also use facts and logic.  What makes your facts and logic better than theirs?  Remember the saying: "opinions are like ***holes, everybody's got one".  Here's my opinion, Willie will be gone soon.  It's backed up by the fact that we are going be close to last in the league in the standings, One of the worst in goals against and an Owner that can't stomach losing revenue. 

[alfstonker]

6 hours ago, coho8888 said:

Having Coached in the Nhl gives you more credibility in what you are saying.  Facts and Logic are useless unless you can prove that they directly backup your opinion.  Others posting opinions contrary to yours also use facts and logic.  What makes your facts and logic better than theirs?  Remember the saying: "opinions are like ***holes, everybody's got one".  Here's my opinion, Willie will be gone soon.  It's backed up by the fact that we are going be close to last in the league in the standings, One of the worst in goals against and an Owner that can't stomach losing revenue. 

You sound like someone who thinks if he puts money on a 3 legged horse, it should win because it's brown, has a tail and lives in a stable. It's an immature desire to make facts suit your chronic bias.

You are incapable of discerning how handicapped this team is which says all that needs to be said about your knowledge of the game.

[coho8888]

16 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

You sound like someone who thinks if he puts money on a 3 legged horse, it should win because it's brown, has a tail and lives in a stable. It's an immature desire to make facts suit your chronic bias.

You are incapable of discerning how handicapped this team is which says all that needs to be said about your knowledge of the game.

Resorting to this now eh?

 

Stating I have a chronic Bias?  I'm just stating my opinion of what I think about his coaching.  I have ZERO bias against him.  I already stated that I like him and have nothing against him as a person.  If you think thats being bias then I feel very sorry for you on how you are interpreting other people's opinions.

 

Read my post.  I stated why in my opinion Willie is going to be fired.  Its not my decision whether to fire him or not.  Its the Owners/Mgmt's decision.  I could care less whether we win or lose given where we are at with our rebuild.  I'm just concerned about how he treats our kids going forward.  And when I mean kids I'm talking about the Goldobins, Virtanens, Boesers, and future prospects that will be coming into our system not the Granlunds or Horvats or Bearcheese's of the team.  He seems to have a very short leash when it comes to the treatment of our younger prospects.  

[alfstonker]

1 minute ago, coho8888 said:

Alf, Alf, Alf.  Read my post.  I stated why in my opinion Willie is going to be fired.  Its not my decision whether to fire him or not.  Its the Owners/Mgmt's decision.  I could care less whether we win or lose given where we are at with our rebuild.  I'm just concerned about how he treats our kids going forward.  And when I mean kids I'm talking about the Goldobins, Virtanens, Boesers, and future prospects that will be coming into our system not the Granlunds or Horvats or Bearcheese's of the team.  He seems to have a very short leash when it comes to the treatment of our younger prospects.  

Well I don't see the kids doing anything but responding and developing. Some kids are just not ready - McCann was sent to the AHL by Florida, Jake couldn't adopt a pro approach so he had to learn it in the A. 

 

Grenier just doesn't get into the game and although he might "get it" in time he is just a warm body as far as effort and compete. LaBate imo just doesn't have the skill. Boucher was in the NJD team 4 times and didn't stick, then Nashville, I suspect it is his inconsistency of effort and ability to compete.

 

You can have a quick wrister but if you don't have the ability to compete physically and carry out defensive duties then you don't have much of a future in the AHL. I will say one thing though if he listens to the coach and responds (like Sven) there is still hope for him.

 

That has nothing to do with a short leash, it is learning to stay in the NHL. I have no doubts Boeser will thrive under WD because he is a strong character and he is a learner and worker. Goldobin seemed to be already on message when he fell ill and as for Virtanen - it is all up to him, he either gets what it takes or he is back in the A.

 

So what I see is every youngster who can develop is developing.

[canuck2288]

1 hour ago, alfstonker said:

Well I don't see the kids doing anything but responding and developing. Some kids are just not ready - McCann was sent to the AHL by Florida, Jake couldn't adopt a pro approach so he had to learn it in the A. 

 

Grenier just doesn't get into the game and although he might "get it" in time he is just a warm body as far as effort and compete. LaBate imo just doesn't have the skill. Boucher was in the NJD team 4 times and didn't stick, then Nashville, I suspect it is his inconsistency of effort and ability to compete.

 

You can have a quick wrister but if you don't have the ability to compete physically and carry out defensive duties then you don't have much of a future in the AHL. I will say one thing though if he listens to the coach and responds (like Sven) there is still hope for him.

 

That has nothing to do with a short leash, it is learning to stay in the NHL. I have no doubts Boeser will thrive under WD because he is a strong character and he is a learner and worker. Goldobin seemed to be already on message when he fell ill and as for Virtanen - it is all up to him, he either gets what it takes or he is back in the A.

 

So what I see is every youngster who can develop is developing.

It's Willie's mom against the world 

 

give it up 

 

your son's NHL clock is ticking my down 

[amitriptyline]

If WD is such a great coach who is doing all the right things, and is completely infallible, as some here seem to think,  I wonder why is there an issue at all with his job security? He hasn't been given the ringing endorsement by management that he has in the past, and they expressed an interest in looking at other coaching options.

[WeneedLumme]

23 hours ago, coho8888 said:

Willie will be gone soon.  It's backed up by the fact that... ...an Owner that can't stomach losing revenue. 

And just where did you find this "fact"?

 

14 hours ago, canuck2288 said:

It's Willie's mom against the world 

 

give it up 

 

your son's NHL clock is ticking my down 

If you didn't insist on using childish phrases like "Willie's mom", it wouldn't be quite so obvious that you are an obnoxious child.

[coho8888]

28 minutes ago, WeneedLumme said:

And just where did you find this "fact"?

 

If you didn't insist on using childish phrases like "Willie's mom", it wouldn't be quite so obvious that you are an obnoxious child.

The fact that the owner can't stomach losing revenue? hmm, maybe because they are so insistent about making the playoffs every year despite having to rebuild or retool or whatever you call it.  Maybe because they've fired a coach that's taken them to the playoffs but not far enough for their liking?  you know simple little signs like that.

 

 

 

[PhillipBlunt]

10 minutes ago, coho8888 said:

The fact that the owner can't stomach losing revenue? hmm, maybe because they are so insistent about making the playoffs every year despite having to rebuild or retool or whatever you call it.  Maybe because they've fired a coach that's taken them to the playoffs but not far enough for their liking?  you know simple little signs like that.

 

 

 

Firing AV was premature and the completely wrong decision.

 

There should have been a roster shakeup at that point, that involved moving significant players, but the GM wanted to get blood from a stone, and AV knew that it wasn't possible. That being said, Vigneault does usually hit a zenith with a team.

[coho8888]

Just now, PhillipBlunt said:

Firing AV was premature and the completely wrong decision.

 

There should have been a roster shakeup at that point, that involved moving significant players, but the GM wanted to get blood from a stone, and AV knew that it wasn't possible. That being said, Vigneault does usually hit a zenith with a team.

I agree. It was quite clear even to the fans that after the 2012 season, the team clearly needed to do something about the core.  

[aGENT]

34 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Firing AV was premature and the completely wrong decision.

 

There should have been a roster shakeup at that point, that involved moving significant players, but the GM wanted to get blood from a stone, and AV knew that it wasn't possible. That being said, Vigneault does usually hit a zenith with a team.

Gillis apparently, actually wanted a rebuild and that's one of the (many) things that got him fired. 

 

24 minutes ago, coho8888 said:

I agree. It was quite clear even to the fans that after the 2012 season, the team clearly needed to do something about the core.  

*2013.

 

2012 we'd just won our 2nd President's trophy and if it weren't for a beaten up Kesler and Duncan Keith's elbow (and likely some Stanley Cup Final hangover), we could easily have gone on another deep run.

 

As for Willie D piping down, IMO it's the fan base who could use a dose of STFU. If management feels there's a better coach available this summer, by all means they should and likely will go after them and attempt to hire them. If it's just a lateral move of firing for the sake of firing and to quell the rabid torch and pitchfork crowd, I'd be disappointed. Just let them do their jobs.

 

We're a sub-par, rebuilding team with a crap ton of injuries and illness and very little ready , top level youth (particularly at forward) to plug in up to this point. No coach was going to make that in to a consistent playoff team during this period without a heavy does of luck and health. All the nit-picking over deployment etc is largely just noise (an lacking context. And no, that's not an endorsement of his coaching or especially his ability to strategize. He has the team competing hard for each other and the kids we do have are largely developing well. That's all that really matters right now.

 

He hasn't had a McDavid, Mathews or the like to pop in to the lineup and make him look better than he is. That's hardly a fault. That's a symptom of our rebuild. That's going to start to change next year and the year following but it's still likely not going to be night and day and I'd not be surprised to see guys like Boeser etc to still be in Utica next year either. Is CDC going to re-light the torches if a new coach has plugs playing in Vancouver while Boeser et al are lighting up the AHL? Because that's a very real (and IMO prudent and likely) possibility folks.

[gino#29]

willie D needs to pipe down AND put the pipe down.AV looks like god right now.

[PhillipBlunt]

9 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Gillis apparently, actually wanted a rebuild and that's one of the (many) things that got him fired. 

Based on.....speculation?

9 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

*2013.

 

2012 we'd just won our 2nd President's trophy and if it weren't for a beaten up Kesler and Duncan Keith's elbow (and likely some Stanley Cup Final hangover), we could easily have gone on another deep run.

The Canucks, with or without Kesler, were manhandled by the Kings. It wasn't really close.

9 minutes ago, J.R. said:

As for Willie D piping down, IMO it's the fan base who could use a dose of STFU. If management feels there's a better coach available this summer, by all means they should and likely will go after them and attempt to hire them. If it's just a lateral move of firing for the sake of firing and to quell the rabid torch and pitchfork crowd, I'd be disappointed. Just let them do their jobs.

That has to be the reason. I don't think Linden or Benning will make a move to assuage anyone's feelings. They have applied strategy in their moves up to this point. To abandon it would be querulous and perilous.