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If we got nolan patrick would the canucks be saved?

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Only McJesus can save us. Patrick is no saviour. Not even a Saint.

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4 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I think Nolan or Hirschier would save this team. Not because they're elite generational players, but because of what they do to the rest of the core. Hirschier in particular.

 

Gives us a playmaking center who's decent defensively. That takes so much pressure and line-checking off Horvat, making him a better player, and makes the many wingers we have much better too.

 

I say we go all out for one of the top-2 centers this year because it's our best chance at a top young center. JB has to try a Reinhart-like move at the Draft to get up to the top-2. With Arizona stacked with young centers, this is literally the perfect opportunity we have.

 

Hirschier - Horvat - Sutter - Gaunce - Gaudette down the middle is a very good bunch of centers. Dahlen and Goldobin on wings gives us that flexibility of a winger who can take faceoffs too. Baertschi and Granlund give us consistent 20 goal scoring and decent defence. All we need are some gritty powerforwards to round out that unit and that includes Virtanen and maybe a UFA or late round pick.

 

Good points. And I prefer Hischier over Patrick mainly because he brings dynamic offensive skills and overlaps less with Horvat. Hischier-Horvat-Sutter-Gaunce does sound pretty good.

 

Dahlen, Goldobin, Granlund, Baertschi have the making of quality top 6 wingers that can score 20+ goals but I would spread them across 3 lines because as you said, we lack physicality on the top 6. We might really be able to get some good quality wingers on all 3 lines: Goldobin and Dahlen with high offensive upsides, Baertschi and Granlund with playmaking abilities and both are pretty responsible defensively, and Virtanen with size and speed as well as Eriksson (don't forget about him) who basically does a lot of things well, passing, defence, transitioning, net presence, collecting garbage goals etc etc.

 

Baertschi-Horvat-Goldobin

Dahlen-Hischier-Virtanen

Granlund-Sutter-Eriksson

 

Something like this might save the team. I would like one more power winger depending on how the fourth line gets built.

 

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It depends what you mean by saved. I agree with the other posters in that Patrick and Hischier most likely won't be Matthews/Eichel/McDavid type players. And that is totally fine. But it doesn't mean they won't be great players or key players of our core or even the team's star player. 

 

Here's a naive comparison: 
Did Nathan Mackinnon save the Ave's? Don't think so. Is he a great player? Probably the most electrifying player on their team. So hell yeah.
Did Sam Reinhart save the Sabres? Not at all. 

Did Alexander Barkov save the Panthers? In his own way.
Did Galchenyuk save the Habs? Nah

 

Sam Reinhart had a heck of a season offensively. Better than Patrick, but I still think Patrick will be the better player. If he turns out like Barkov that would be amazing and definitely something worth tanking for imo. 

If Hischier is as electrifying as Nathan Mackinnon, then damn. 

 

Either one of these as our 1C with Horvat as our 2C would be sick and it would be a major step forward.
 

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43 minutes ago, khay said:

 

Good points. And I prefer Hischier over Patrick mainly because he brings dynamic offensive skills and overlaps less with Horvat. Hischier-Horvat-Sutter-Gaunce does sound pretty good.

 

Dahlen, Goldobin, Granlund, Baertschi have the making of quality top 6 wingers that can score 20+ goals but I would spread them across 3 lines because as you said, we lack physicality on the top 6. We might really be able to get some good quality wingers on all 3 lines: Goldobin and Dahlen with high offensive upsides, Baertschi and Granlund with playmaking abilities and both are pretty responsible defensively, and Virtanen with size and speed as well as Eriksson (don't forget about him) who basically does a lot of things well, passing, defence, transitioning, net presence, collecting garbage goals etc etc.

 

Baertschi-Horvat-Goldobin

Dahlen-Hischier-Virtanen

Granlund-Sutter-Eriksson

 

Something like this might save the team. I would like one more power winger depending on how the fourth line gets built.

 

Exactly, I think every good line in the history of the NHL has had the recipe of the following:

 

Shooter - Playmaker - Grinder

 

If each of our lines have good enough amounts of each of those qualities along with great defence all around, we'll do well in the future playoffs. I think putting one skilled guy, one good two-way guy and one gritty guy is the way to go.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I think Nolan or Hirschier would save this team. Not because they're elite generational players, but because of what they do to the rest of the core. Hirschier in particular.

 

Gives us a playmaking center who's decent defensively. That takes so much pressure and line-checking off Horvat, making him a better player, and makes the many wingers we have much better too.

 

I say we go all out for one of the top-2 centers this year because it's our best chance at a top young center. JB has to try a Reinhart-like move at the Draft to get up to the top-2. With Arizona stacked with young centers, this is literally the perfect opportunity we have.

 

Hirschier - Horvat - Sutter - Gaunce - Gaudette down the middle is a very good bunch of centers. Dahlen and Goldobin on wings gives us that flexibility of a winger who can take faceoffs too. Baertschi and Granlund give us consistent 20 goal scoring and decent defence. All we need are some gritty powerforwards to round out that unit and that includes Virtanen and maybe a UFA or late round pick.

I think you can make the case for either Patrick or Hischier, obviously they are both good players. We could be a bit more like LA, with a team that just suffocates you if we had Patrick, or we could be really well balanced and beat in different ways on different nights. I think we know which one Vancouver fans would prefer, we've become accustomed to exciting hockey, and the lack of that is the biggest gripe our fanbase has at the moment.

 

I don't think we should go all out for one of these centers this year though. The reason I say that is because I don't think we are 1 center away from having a cup contending core, which is essentially the question being asked in this thread. Would I love either of those players? Yup. While it's far too early to say, I think it's possible to get players of this quality in future drafts, and I think if we miss out on them in the lottery, they aren't necessarily worth the premium you'd pay to get them. That being said, if we do end up in position to take one of those players, I think we should look at acquiring another Top-5/Top-10 pick... I think this team is definitely short a defensive prospect for the long term, maybe even two D-prospects short. Which is the key reason why I wouldn't trade up for them, I think if we miss out we should just take the best defenseman available, trading down for more assets if appropriate.

 

Also, I take exception to Baertschi and Granlund being classified as a 20 goal scorer with decent defense. He has 32 points (career-high and that's not impressive), less than 20 goals his season (and has never scored 20 goals), and I don't think even the most optimistic Canucks fan would praise his defense. Not saying he is bad, but it's not a notable part of his game. Granlund is good defensively, I take no issue with that, but he still only has 19 goals, and again 32 points. These are players having career years who have yet to pass 20 goals, and we have no proof that they could even repeat this level of play (32 points), forget improve. So to say that these are players who "give us consistent 20 goal scoring and decent defense" is about as far from the truth as you could realistically be... I mean you can't be a consistent 20-goal scorer while having never scored 20 goals in your career... 

 

Also to both you and @khay. The power winger you are wishing for, his name is Brock Boeser... I mean there are players with more power... but I think you forgot the most important forward prospect we have :).

Edited by Aircool
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Nolan Patrick wouldn't even be our best prospect, and I have his ceiling below Horvat's. Heck, I don't even think NP is the best player in the draft.

 

Why does this draft have to be so poor?! :(

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Posted (edited)

8 minutes ago, Aircool said:

I think you can make the case for either Patrick or Hischier, obviously they are both good players. We could be a bit more like LA, with a team that just suffocates you if we had Patrick, or we could be really well balanced and beat in different ways on different nights. I think we know which one Vancouver fans would prefer, we've become accustomed to exciting hockey, and the lack of that is the biggest gripe our fanbase has at the moment.

 

I don't think we should go all out for one of these centers this year though. The reason I say that is because I don't think we are 1 center away from having a cup contending core, which is essentially the question being asked in this thread. Would I love either of those players? Yup. While it's far too early to say, I think it's possible to get players of this quality in future drafts, and I think if we miss out on them in the lottery, they aren't necessarily worth the premium you'd pay to get them. That being said, if we do end up in position to take one of those players, I think we should look at acquiring another Top-5/Top-10 pick... I think this team is definitely short a defensive prospect for the long term, maybe even two D-prospects short. Which is the key reason why I wouldn't trade up for them, I think if we miss out we should just take the best defenseman available, trading down for more assets if appropriate.

 

Also, I take exception to Baertschi and Granlund being classified as a 20 goal scorer with decent defense. He has 32 points (career-high and that's not impressive), less than 20 goals his season (and has never scored 20 goals), and I don't think even the most optimistic Canucks fan would praise his defense. Not saying he is bad, but it's not a notable part of his game. Granlund is good defensively, I take no issue with that, but he still only has 19 goals, and again 32 points. These are players having career years who have yet to pass 20 goals, and we have no proof that they could even repeat this level of play (32 points), forget improve. So to say that these are players who "give us consistent 20 goal scoring and decent defense" is about as far from the truth as you could realistically be... I mean you can't be a consistent 20-goal scorer while having never scored 20 goals in your career... 

 

Also to both you and @khay. The power winger you are wishing for, his name is Brock Boeser... I mean there are players with more power... but I think you forgot the most important forward prospect we have :).

OMG, how could I forget Boeser... I'm embarrassed now.

 

Some valid points in your post for sure.

 

Regarding Baertschi and Granlund being consistent 20 goal scorers, you are right. They have never hit 20 goals in the past, although Granlund will this season and Baertschi might.  But it's possible to project their trajectories given their production this season (assuming that they will continue to be played in the same roles as they are placed in now in the subsequent seasons). And I think it's hard to argue against the fact that they project to be 20 goal scorers. They might even reach 30 goals in odd years during one of their peak years. The skill is there.

 

Mikael Granlund (Markus' brother) never scored 15 goals or reached 50 points until this season. There is no way that you could have projected that he would score 24+ goals and 65+ points this season unless you are a Wilds fan who has seen his potential by following the team everyday. I am a Canucks fans who watch Markus Granlund and Sven Baertschi (almost) every game. Us fans are for sure biased in our projection but we are also ruthless on players that we don't see much potential for. I think consensus is that Granlund and Baertschi project to be 20 goal scorers. 

 

I appreciate your objectivity thought.

 

 

 

Edited by khay
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No one player will save an organization.  That is just silly. Has Horvat made the team better? Has Stecher helped the defense? Even a super star is not a team in the making and the Oilers are a lot more than just McDavid. One of the top two centers in this draft would just make us deeper and be another step towards a solid future.

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18 minutes ago, c00kies said:

Nolan Patrick wouldn't even be our best prospect, and I have his ceiling below Horvat's. Heck, I don't even think NP is the best player in the draft.

 

Why does this draft have to be so poor?! :(

Horvat is better than Patrick. Patricks numbers are better and he is a similar type of player. They are both two way centers. There is a lot to like in Patrick.

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Patrick won't save us, he's got a ton of health problems and will most likely be a bust by 25. 

10 minutes ago, appleboy said:

No one player will save an organization.  That is just silly. Has Horvat made the team better? Has Stecher helped the defense? Even a super star is not a team in the making and the Oilers are a lot more than just McDavid. One of the top two centers in this draft would just make us deeper and be another step towards a solid future.

 Crosby saved Pittsburgh. Because of him there started being asses in the seats again in steel town. Performance wise, it took malkin, letang, Fleury +

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Posted (edited)

33 minutes ago, khay said:

OMG, how could I forget Boeser... I'm embarrassed now.

 

Some valid points in your post for sure.

 

Regarding Baertschi and Granlund being consistent 20 goal scorers, you are right. They have never hit 20 goals in the past, although Granlund will this season and Baertschi might.  But it's possible to project their trajectories given their production this season (assuming that they will continue to be played in the same roles as they are placed in now in the subsequent seasons). And I think it's hard to argue against the fact that they project to be 20 goal scorers. They might even reach 30 goals in odd years during one of their peak years. The skill is there.

 

Mikael Granlund (Markus' brother) never scored 15 goals or reached 50 points until this season. There is no way that you could have projected that he would score 24+ goals and 65+ points this season unless you are a Wilds fan who has seen his potential by following the team everyday. I am a Canucks fans who watch Markus Granlund and Sven Baertschi (almost) every game. Us fans are for sure biased in our projection but we are also ruthless on players that we don't see much potential for. I think consensus is that Granlund and Baertschi project to be 20 goal scorers. 

 

I appreciate your objectivity thought.

I think it's entirely possible that they become consistent 20 goal scorers for sure... But I just found it more than a little ridiculous to deem them players who are defensive presences and pop in 20 goals on a consistent basis when they've never done it. The potential is, as you say, 100% there to be that... I just wish people on these forums would say that they have the potential to be consistent 20 goal scorers, instead of just calling them consistent 20 goal scorers... It's a small distinction, but it's really hard sometimes to take posts seriously that do this with every player listed in the post, and this happens more than it should.

Edited by Aircool
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This thread is dumb.

 

Unless you're a Crosby/McJesus/Matthews level player (which are normally few and far between), not one person can "save" a franchise.

 

Getting a player the level of Patrick would sure go a long ways towards completing our rebuild though.

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Posted (edited)

No, Nolan would go on a 60+ game injury reserve trek each season.

 

Why does this draft have to be so poor?! :(

Fillers before Jack Hughes becomes eligible.

Edited by Creepy Crawler
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1 minute ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

This thread is dumb.

 

Unless you're a Crosby/McJesus/Matthews level player (which are normally few and far between), not one person can "save" a franchise.

 

Getting a player the level of Patrick would sure go a long ways towards completing our rebuild though.

I agree with your assessment. I think it's just poorly worded though, I think the OP is probably trying to ask if getting Patrick/Hischier sets us up for future competitiveness, essentially if that's the final piece we need outside of prospect development.

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1 minute ago, Aircool said:

I agree with your assessment. I think it's just poorly worded though, I think the OP is probably trying to ask if getting Patrick/Hischier sets us up for future competitiveness, essentially if that's the final piece we need outside of prospect development.

Fair enough.

 

Still, no. It would certainly help in a big way, but we'd still need a true number one defenseman/powerplay specialist, and that's assuming that most of our other high end prospects and young guns (Boeser, Goldy, Dahlen, Gaudette, etc...) pan out. 

 

If all of those things were to happen, then I think one could say that we had all the pieces in place.

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No. Especially if he is a Nugent Hopkins or Nathan Mackinnon level player (still good quality but not a McDavid, Crosby, or even Stamkos/ Kane / Tavares level). 
 

 

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2 hours ago, c00kies said:

Nolan Patrick wouldn't even be our best prospect, and I have his ceiling below Horvat's. Heck, I don't even think NP is the best player in the draft.

 

Why does this draft have to be so poor?! :(

And why do we always have to drop positions in the lottery?

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