4 years later

[Silky mitts]

19 minutes ago, babych said:

I personally would have been more curious as to what Columbus was willing to offer us the year prior...

 

I remember the CBJ beat reporter saying at the time that the Jackets had made a substantial offer but MG wanted to keep Schneider and trade Lou.

Jeff Carter was a rumor floating around

[JM_]

Had EDM got Schneids they would have missed out on McDiver and still be a middling sucky team... so that would have been nice but it was good for both. We got our future captain and NJ has a great goalie. Win-Win. 

[5 decades and no cup]

50 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

Had EDM got Schneids they would have missed out on McDiver and still be a middling sucky team... so that would have been nice but it was good for both. We got our future captain and NJ has a great goalie. Win-Win. 

Absolutely.  That would have been awesome.  But...I don't see anyone on their 2013 team that I would want more than Bo right now.

 RNH, Hall, Eberle, etc. Nope...not a chance.

[Crabcakes]

1 hour ago, elvis15 said:

Eberle most certainly wasn't on the table, nor was Yakupov. Yakupov might not have done much since, but he was coming off a 31 point season (in 48 games, lockout year), and Eberle had already had two very solid years in Edmonton including a nearly point per game season in 2011/12 and then also 37 points in the lockout season. If Edmonton had offered either player and their 1st, we would have taken it.

 

What they did offer was their first and Magnus Paajarvi-Svensson. After an ok rookie year, MPS had a very down second year and a pretty marginal lockout season. He hasn't done a lot since apart from in the AHL and there was more than enough worry there that he wasn't the sweetener that would get us to trade a top flight goalie to a divisional rival.

 

So two spots different to still draft the player we want and keep our top player going back from moving to a rival. Well worth it.

 

The other parts are all hindsight, and maybe if we'd drafted someone else we still wouldn't be complaining. The Oilers pick, Nurse, hasn't done as much, but Ristolainen has been very good for Buffalo.

I will always wonder, had Horvat not been on the table still, would the trade still have been made?

 

 

[Gnarcore]

The trade we should have done with Schneider are the rumored ones (if true) with Tampa Bay that include the names Stamkos or Hedman 

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

I agree with the others saying both teams came out winners. 

 

And at the time, I saw the trade as fair (but not great) value for Schneider.

 

I liked Horvat a ton, but didn't see him as having a lot of 1C potential. More like a good 2C, or a 3C as his floor. 

 

Schneider I believed was a pretty surefire starter/1G. Maybe with elite potential. But also had a few question marks around him.

 

It's Horvat who has exceeded expectations to the greater extent. And so it's possible that we "win" this trade for that reason. If you accept that the pieces moved at the time of the trade were equal to "fair value." Then when one of the pieces increases in value more than the other, that can create a sense of there being a "win." And that's a perspective I might agree with.

 

So maybe we won. Certainly we didn't lose.

 

Also, as far as Horvat and Schneider go, it's definitely better for our timeline to have Horvat, a guy who will be in his prime when we hopefully start contending, versus having Schneider, who likely will be declining (due to age) when we are hitting our stride as a team.

 

Schneids is already 31. So maybe he's 35 when we get to the point of contending again. And then he's 35-40 during our best window to win. Demko will be 25-30 in those same years (same age as Bo and same age range as our core youngsters). Hopefully Demko develops into a similar quality goaltender to Schneider. And one who fits our timeline perfectly.

[JM_]

14 minutes ago, helpsu2score said:

Absolutely.  That would have been awesome.  But...I don't see anyone on their 2013 team that I would want more than Bo right now.

 RNH, Hall, Eberle, etc. Nope...not a chance.

Nope, me neither. People scoffed at Linden and Benning talking about building teams with character, but now look - Bo, Boeser seems to be a great kid, Stecher, Tryamkin, Guddy - all these guys seem like the type that will give it all during the playoffs in particular. Sure RNH might score a bit more during the regular season but he's not the guy I'd want in the playoffs. 

[Violator]

We could of had both if gillis wasn't inept.feel bad for Schneider when it comes down to it such a waste of a talent.He must love the eastern conference though and living close to home.

[c00kies]

The Canucks won by trading an Elite goalie to a non-contender, while picking up a solid foundation player.

 

The Devils won by finding their long-time successor to Brodeur.

 

I feel like the Devils needed a lot more prospects at the time though, so I felt they should have kept their picks and tried to get a core group of skaters before going for a goalie (you can always find capable goalies). That said, no goalie would come close to Schneider's level, and he was on an affordable contract at the time.

[Davathor]

Tough call really... I mean for the oilers vs NJD. We won the trade easy. Top scorer on a bad team, future captain.. if we were a playoff caliber team Bo would prolly have another 20+ points.

 

as for Edmonton... if we got Bo AND a prospect it would be better for us now (depending on prospect) and the oilers would have won more games, we may have ended up with McDavid, Eichel or Strome.. even Marner. Hindsights 20/20, but I doubt Oilers would have picked 1st overall with the quality of tending Schneider would have brought them immediately 

[WeneedLumme]

2 hours ago, ajhockey said:

It's still too early to tell. This may be one of those trades that comes down to the wire for years to come, much like the Forsberg-Lindros trade.

I don't see how you can compare those trades. While I like both Bo and Schneids, Lindros was a generational player, not in the same class as either. And if Lindros was traded straight across for Forsberg, it might have taken a while to see who won the trade, but with all those other prime assets thrown in, it was immediately clear that Quebec won that trade. Colorado's cups just confirmed it.

 

The trade that netted us Bo, on the other hand, was a straight hockey trade, with both teams getting what they needed. No clear winner.

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

34 minutes ago, c00kies said:

The Canucks won by trading an Elite goalie to a non-contender, while picking up a solid foundation player.

 

The Devils won by finding their long-time successor to Brodeur.

 

I feel like the Devils needed a lot more prospects at the time though, so I felt they should have kept their picks and tried to get a core group of skaters before going for a goalie (you can always find capable goalies). That said, no goalie would come close to Schneider's level, and he was on an affordable contract at the time.

Yeah, and from the Devils' perspective, they weren't trading Horvat but the #9 pick. If they keep that pick, they might have drafted a young core player, but they also could have easily drafted someone who isn't even an NHL player.

 

So I'm sure there are plenty of Devils' fans who still feel like they got a clear cut win (based on the assets exchanged at the time and the roster needs unique to each team). And I can't necessarily say they're wrong to believe this.

 

It's all about perspective. And remembering that evaluating trades is about placing values on the assets exchanged on either side of the equation (at the moment of the exchange). You could make an absolutely robbery of a trade, and then the star player you acquired for a "bag of pucks" type of cost suddenly has a career ending injury.

 

Do you all of a sudden lose that trade?

 

Not in my book.

 

So Horvat (#9) for Schneids was a fair trade, from both sides.

 

And both sides can legitimately argue that they "won" the trade. 

 

But as a Canucks fan, I feel like both sides "won" at the time of the trade, but we "win" longterm based on the value Horvat brings to our present and future, compared to what we'd have if we still had Schneider in net (and didn't have Horvat).

[gong_8]

Read somewhere that it was Oilers 2013 first round pick (7th overall, they took Darnell Nurse) and Martin Marincin a defenseman.  Don't remember which team offered (probably Canucks) and was rejected (by Oilers).  Cory Schneider was going for a premium if he went to a division rival so I think Vancouver made the offer, since they only got a draft pick back from New Jersey.

 

As for Luongo, if he was traded at the 2013 draft (just finished year 3 of his contract), he was only ever going to go to Florida (2nd overall that years draft) or maybe Tampa Bay (3rd overall also that year) so it didn't matter what other teams (Toronto, under Burke and Nonis obviously a low ball during the 2013 trade deadline) offered to the Canucks.

 

Corey Schneider took over the end of the 2012 playoffs (down 2 - 0 to LA and needed a spark, no fault to Luongo from what I witnessed) and it looked like he was going to take over the reigns the Canucks, for the future.  They probably should have traded Roberto Luongo (just finished year 2 of his contract so unlikely) at the 2012 draft (won President's Trophy but moved up 4 spots, since the conference title rounds get the last 4 picks of the draft) since Florida had a late first round pick (23rd overall, Canucks had, 26th overall, Brendan Gaunce).  Maybe package those 2 first round picks to move up?  Also, later that summer was the lockout so that even made it worse.

 

Mike Gillis really wanted Nick Bjugstad.  Maybe Florida would have done that straight up for Roberto Luongo, we will never know, I would have settled for that knowing what we know now.  But if we were looking at Roberto Luongo for Florida's first round pick in any of 2012 (23), 2013 (2), or 2014 (1) it would have only been 2012.  So my offers that made sense would have been.

 

Roberto Luongo and no salary retention for Florida Panthers 2012 first round pick (23) or Nick Bjugstad.

Roberto Luongo, some salary retention for Nick Bjugstad and 2012 first round pick (23) - If I'm Florida I reject this

 

Florida had no incentive to trade anything to Vancouver knowing that Roberto Luongo (and his big contract) would only wave to go to them.

 

Getting back to the main point of this topic, it is a trade (Horvat for Schneider) that is working out for both teams.

[Boudrias]

Feel sorry for Schneids. He looks pretty exposed on a lot of highlights. Don't know what the Devils have coming but it appears Van is rebuilding faster. Always thought Schneids was a first class act, same as Horvat. I measure the deal by how much the acquired player fits the need he was acquired for. From what I can see it looks even. Someone mentioned age and since Horvat is so much younger he will likely get the nod. 

[BowtieCanuck]

Hard to say who won the trade as of right now but there isn't a bit of me that would take that trade back. Horvat has shown the dedication and class asked of a future captain and has even exceeded the expectations of his most faithful followers.

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, ajhockey said:

It's still too early to tell. This may be one of those trades that comes down to the wire for years to come, much like the Forsberg-Lindros trade.

Forsberg himself turned out to be a fair trade...Imagine how awesome PHI would have been if they kept the entourage Simon Ricci others and picks etc...Which turned COL into a powerhouse for close to a decade. Possibly could have been dynastic.   

[Chris12345]

Canucks got absolutely fleeced by this trade. They didn't trade Schneids for Bo they traded Schneids for the 9th overall pick.

 

Hard to tell what was out there but the rumoured Oiler deal was better.

 

To compound the issue they dealt Loungo. Frustrating beyond words.

[Nuxfanabroad]

Really pleased with the deal. When you're dealing the established star, would say it's better to send out of conference. Schneids was a mighty likeable bloke. Be tough if he were starring for a div-rival.

 

Bo's such a gem..basically a guy you can build a team around.

 

Then with Miller, Markstrom & Demko's future, can't see how anyone can complain.

[Coconuts]

If anything I'd say the trade comes up even, we gave up a sure thing for a lottery ticket and the Devils got an elite goaltender. And just one lottery ticket mind you, Cory was definitely worth more than the return he garnered. If anything we're extremely fortunate Horvat has turned out the way he has so far and if the Devils weren't such a tire fire we might even be saying they won the trade. Cory can stop pucks but he can't carry that team on his back all season long, few goaltenders can.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Coconuts said:

If anything I'd say the trade comes up even, we gave up a sure thing for a lottery ticket and the Devils got an elite goaltender. And just one lottery ticket mind you, Cory was definitely worth more than the return he garnered. If anything we're extremely fortunate Horvat has turned out the way he has so far and if the Devils weren't such a tire fire we might even be saying they won the trade. Cory can stop pucks but he can't carry that team on his back all season long, few goaltenders can.

Actually, great goalies can carry their teams: Roy, Hasek, and Price.  Snieder is not as good as is numbers indicate.  He's never even led his team to the playoffs!  Bo is way better.