Does $20.64 "living wage" solve the poverty in BC?

[Warhippy]

16 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Since about late 2015 right?

 

 

Ya, totally ignoring the decade before that right?  Because all of this happened in a single 18 month period....come on man.  I don't like this guy at all but to blame him alone is childish.

 

We had a decade of ridiculously low interest rates, numerous cuts to services that would have helped employ or retrain people and the former governments insistence on bringing in over 350k TFW's in their time in office.

 

Couple that with their belief that if you go in to debt you can help spend the country out of a recession which would help everyone and it magically happens that

 

It sadly aint at the feet of golden boy.

[Ryan Strome]

15 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Ya, totally ignoring the decade before that right?  Because all of this happened in a single 18 month period....come on man.  I don't like this guy at all but to blame him alone is childish.

 

We had a decade of ridiculously low interest rates, numerous cuts to services that would have helped employ or retrain people and the former governments insistence on bringing in over 350k TFW's in their time in office.

 

Couple that with their belief that if you go in to debt you can help spend the country out of a recession which would help everyone and it magically happens that

 

It sadly aint at the feet of golden boy.

That pesky global recession..

 

Anyway back to topic, I don't agree with a significantly increased minimum wage as it would raise prices on everything. We need to lower the cost of living in B.C and honestly across the Country. How to do that I'm not sure but I do know out real estate market is ridiculous, houses aren't worth half of what they're selling for in most parts of the Country and especially in B.C.

[Heretic]

7 hours ago, RRypien37 said:

I see it this way. If you are unhappy with your wage/salary, educate yourself further/get more qualifications/work harder/seek out further opportunities. 

Hard to do when you're an "older" worker, but yes, definitely do that when you're younger (I went back to school when I was 25 and got a computer electronics diploma)

 

Tip for anyone wanting to get into the IT/Computer industry - DON'T.  Get a trade instead - like an electrician - you'll have work for life.

Your job can easily be done by someone over seas, like in India for a fraction of what you are worth here.

That's what I want to see change - increased taxes to company's that use employees over seas for work done in Canada.

[Warhippy]

Just now, Ryan Strome said:

That pesky global recession..

 

Anyway back to topic, I don't agree with a significantly increased minimum wage as it would raise prices on everything. We need to lower the cost of living in B.C and honestly across the Country. How to do that I'm not sure but I do know out real estate market is ridiculous, houses aren't worth half of what they're selling for in most parts of the Country and especially in B.C.

Obama managed to get the US out of it very well.  Why couldn't Harper?

 

You're totally right though, raising minimum wage to that degree is literally stupid, and the only way we're getting out from it is to take a pin to that housing bubble up until the last 3 months most people at CMHC the big mortgage lending banks and elsewhere swore didn't exist.

 

People in more than just Vancouver and Toronto are now spending 50% or more on their housing costs and most of it is fueled by these crazy low rates and the amount of debt they've taken on over the last decade.

 

It's frightening really.  $20 an hour isn't helping it.

[Warhippy]

Just now, Heretic said:

Hard to do when you're an "older" worker, but yes, definitely do that when you're younger (I went back to school when I was 25 and got a computer electronics diploma)

 

Tip for anyone wanting to get into the IT/Computer industry - DON'T.  Get a trade instead - like an electrician - you'll have work for life.

Your job can easily be done by someone over seas, like in India for a fraction of what you are worth here.

That's what I want to see change - increased taxes to company's that use employees over seas for work done in Canada.

BOOM

 

As a former trades person 100% correct.

 

One of the most egregious slaps in the face to the blue collar workers of this country in the last 25 years was when they took basic trades training out of schools then a decade ago when they said very openly, we want to bring in skilled labourers to do these jobs

 

Training Canadians to do these jobs is what built this country, Canadians building for Canadians.

 

As they say, people in blue jeans built this country, people in suits are destroying it

[inane]

43 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Sorry, should I have posted a bunch of tweets about JT golfing?

Those are totally the same, you're so astute. 

[tbone909]

http://wpmedia.vancouversun.com/2016/04/living_wage_update_2016_embargoed.pdf?1461691887

 From the Vancouver Sun

 

A Bare Bones Budget

 At $20.64 per hour for Metro Vancouver—or $37,565 annually for each parent working full-time—here’s what a family could afford: FOOD: $831/month. Based on estimates by the Provincial Health Services Authority for a nutritious diet, which do not consider special dietary needs, cultural or other food preferences, and the cost of condiments or spices.

 

CLOTHING AND FOOTWEAR: $184/month. SHELTER: $1,652/month. Includes a conservative rent estimate for a three-bedroom apartment, utilities, telephone, and insurance on home contents.

TRANSPORTATION: $505/month. Includes the amortized cost of owning and operating a used car as well as a two-zone bus pass for one of the parents, replaced by a discounted student transit pass, the U-Pass, for eight months of the year.

CHILD CARE: $1,356/month. For a four-year-old in full-time care; and a seven-year-old in before- and after-school care, full-time care during winter break (one week, the other assumed covered by statutory holidays and informal arrangements) and spring break (two weeks) and six weeks of full-time summer care. Child care is the second most expensive item in the living wage family budget after shelter.

 

MEDICAL SERVICES PLAN (MSP) PREMIUMS: $150/month. NON-MSP HEALTH CARE: $139/month. The cost of a basic extended health and dental plan with Pacific Blue Cross Insurance; does not include expenses only partially covered by the insurance plan.

PARENTS’ EDUCATION: $92/month. Allows for two college courses per year. CONTINGENCY FUND: $241/month. Two weeks’ wages for each parent, which provides some cushion for unexpected events like the serious illness of a family member, transition time between jobs, etc.

 

OTHER HOUSEHOLD EXPENSES: $765/month. Covers toiletries and personal care, furniture, household supplies, laundry, school supplies and fees, bank fees, some reading materials, Internet, minimal recreation and entertainment, family outings (for example to museums and cultural events), birthday presents, modest family vacation and some sports and/or arts classes for the children.

 

This living wage calculation does not cover: • Credit card, loan, or other debt/interest payments; • Savings for retirement; • Owning a home; • Savings for children’s future education; • Anything beyond minimal recreation, entertainment, or holiday costs; • Costs of caring for a disabled, seriously ill, or elderly family member; or • Much of a cushion for emergencies or tough times

 

 

I know some of these things people can do without and they do. 

[Ryan Strome]

7 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Obama managed to get the US out of it very well.  Why couldn't Harper?

 

You're totally right though, raising minimum wage to that degree is literally stupid, and the only way we're getting out from it is to take a pin to that housing bubble up until the last 3 months most people at CMHC the big mortgage lending banks and elsewhere swore didn't exist.

 

People in more than just Vancouver and Toronto are now spending 50% or more on their housing costs and most of it is fueled by these crazy low rates and the amount of debt they've taken on over the last decade.

 

It's frightening really.  $20 an hour isn't helping it.

I don't want to go off track but...

 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/sec.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/was-canadas-recession-average/article4317787/%3Fservice%3Damp

 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/sec.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/economy-lab/why-canadas-recession-wasnt-as-brutal/article612437/%3Fservice%3Damp

 

Obama increased U.S debt level insanely.

[tbone909]

15 minutes ago, Heretic said:

Hard to do when you're an "older" worker, but yes, definitely do that when you're younger (I went back to school when I was 25 and got a computer electronics diploma)

 

Tip for anyone wanting to get into the IT/Computer industry - DON'T.  Get a trade instead - like an electrician - you'll have work for life.

Your job can easily be done by someone over seas, like in India for a fraction of what you are worth here.

That's what I want to see change - increased taxes to company's that use employees over seas for work done in Canada.

Great post Heretic, i agree 110% with this !

[taxi]

40 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Obama managed to get the US out of it very well.  Why couldn't Harper?

 

You're totally right though, raising minimum wage to that degree is literally stupid, and the only way we're getting out from it is to take a pin to that housing bubble up until the last 3 months most people at CMHC the big mortgage lending banks and elsewhere swore didn't exist.

 

People in more than just Vancouver and Toronto are now spending 50% or more on their housing costs and most of it is fueled by these crazy low rates and the amount of debt they've taken on over the last decade.

 

It's frightening really.  $20 an hour isn't helping it.

The US is better than it was, in the sense that 10s of millions of people aren't foreclosing on their homes this year, but Canada is still much better off. The US has a long way to go.

 

Also, low interest rates do not fuel someone spending a greater proportion of their income on housing. Lower interest rates mean more capital for housing purchases, which increases prices, but they also mean lower mortgage rates and lower monthly payments on that debt. Only when money enters from outside the system is that balance disrupted.

[Kragar]

1 hour ago, Heretic said:

Hard to do when you're an "older" worker, but yes, definitely do that when you're younger (I went back to school when I was 25 and got a computer electronics diploma)

 

Tip for anyone wanting to get into the IT/Computer industry - DON'T.  Get a trade instead - like an electrician - you'll have work for life.

Your job can easily be done by someone over seas, like in India for a fraction of what you are worth here.

That's what I want to see change - increased taxes to company's that use employees over seas for work done in Canada.

Agree for the most part.  The only part I'm not so sure on is the taxes for companies using employees overseas, since it's basically a tariff.  Similar to the situation with tariffs on Japanese cars in the 70's, it's a narrow view of the problem.  Once the tax is implemented, local labor can get complacent, knowing that their jobs are protected.  If offshore resources jack up their quality, with perhaps a modest increase in price, their ability to compete is strengthened over time.  And, even if they do nothing, you still have a complacent local labor force that is not doing as good a job as they could/should.

[taxi]

3 minutes ago, Kragar said:

Agree for the most part.  The only part I'm not so sure on is the taxes for companies using employees overseas, since it's basically a tariff.  Similar to the situation with tariffs on Japanese cars in the 70's, it's a narrow view of the problem.  Once the tax is implemented, local labor can get complacent, knowing that their jobs are protected.  If offshore resources jack up their quality, with perhaps a modest increase in price, their ability to compete is strengthened over time.  And, even if they do nothing, you still have a complacent local labor force that is not doing as good a job as they could/should.

Japan, unlike places like China and India, has modern labour laws, environmental regulations, etc...So Japan is fair competition. Meanwhile, places like India, Russia, and China, that we are outsourcing to now, are not fair competition and there is literally no way a Canadian company can ever compete with their low costs. I'm all for competition in the market, but in order to have competition, there has to be a somewhat level playing field, which with certain legal systems there simply cannot be. 

[Alflives]

20 dollars/hr!  Holy carp!  That's a crazy good wage for a lot of unskilled labor.  Wouldn't paying that minimum wage put the cost on the consumer? 

[Heretic]

2 minutes ago, Kragar said:

Agree for the most part.  The only part I'm not so sure on is the taxes for companies using employees overseas, since it's basically a tariff.  Similar to the situation with tariffs on Japanese cars in the 70's, it's a narrow view of the problem.  Once the tax is implemented, local labor can get complacent, knowing that their jobs are protected.  If offshore resources jack up their quality, with perhaps a modest increase in price, their ability to compete is strengthened over time.  And, even if they do nothing, you still have a complacent local labor force that is not doing as good a job as they could/should.

The problem is, people there (over seas) contribute ZERO to our economy, and the people here displaced, cause a drain on our economy - collecting EI, not paying back into the system in the way of taxes as they used to, not spending as much on goods and services, etc...etc...all just so that some big corporation can save about $250,000 dollars in expenses.  That may seem like a lot, but to them, it's peanuts. 

 

So it has nothing to do with "quality" as you say at all - the person who replaced me is just as qualified as I am, though their ability to communicate effectively is much lower (English language barrier, Canadian culture).  

[Gurn]

The problem with globalization is, while it has brought 3rd world countries up a bit, it has really dropped 1st world countries a lot down.

The world would be better off if the worst had been raised a lot and the former best had only gone down a little. But that is not the way it happened.

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, gurn said:

The problem with globalization is, while it has brought 3rd world countries up a bit, it has really dropped 1st world countries a lot down.

The world would be better off if the worst had been raised a lot and the former best had only gone down a little. But that is not the way it happened.

Is it even possible to have everyone classified as a 'have'?  I think, history proves, there will always be those who 'have' and those who don't.  Isn't competition for the world's wealth a good thing, kind of a natural selection - survival of species thing?  

[Gurn]

Just now, Alflives said:

Is it even possible to have everyone classified as a 'have'?  I think, history proves, there will always be those who 'have' and those who don't.  Isn't competition for the world's wealth a good thing, kind of a natural selection - survival of species thing?  

So if it is all about acquiring wealth, survival of the fittest as you put it, how come it is ok to steal money with the stroke of a pen; but everybody gets pissy about  a mugger taking wallets with the help of a baseball bat?

[Kragar]

19 minutes ago, taxi said:

Japan, unlike places like China and India, has modern labour laws, environmental regulations, etc...So Japan is fair competition. Meanwhile, places like India, Russia, and China, that we are outsourcing to now, are not fair competition and there is literally no way a Canadian company can ever compete with their low costs. I'm all for competition in the market, but in order to have competition, there has to be a somewhat level playing field, which with certain legal systems there simply cannot be. 

Yep, I understand that.  My point with Japan was that they were significantly undercutting the auto market with their cheap cars.  When tariffs were enacted, to try to level things out, Detroit got lazy, since their market was being protected.  80's come along, and Japanese car quality gets better and better, and Detroit suffers, to the point where Japanese companies come over here and build, which is good for labor, but profits go overseas.

 

I work in IT, and have dealt with offshore teams for years.  While the price is great, there are other significant obstacles which I consider important, but I'm nowhere near high enough to influence hiring locally which would make things noticeably better.

 

I'm not against leveling the playing field, but I don't think a tax will fix the problem.  It will just kick it down the curb a while.

[stawns]

12 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

The elephant in the room, everyone likes to pretend is beneath them: working class poverty.

 

This will never be solved. Simply not enough to go 'round.

income equality.  Actually enforce a small corporate tax and then provide a graduated basic income supplement and free university. 

[aGENT]

I'd be far more interested in at least seeing a trial experiment done with guaranteed income vs raising the minimum wage. That in conjunction with stronger labour laws etc.