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Canucks' Team Toughness

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Hopefully, the management sees that there is a lack of toughness on this team.  They have consistently signed for skill players like Baertschi, Granlund, Erickson.....that has got us nowhere.  if you sign for skill, you need top level skill like McDavid, Laine, P. Kane, J Gaudreau, to move the needle. The second class skill players need toughness elsewhere on the team to create space.  Now Burrows traded for Jonathan Dahlen, Hansen for Goldobin.  There is no toughness in return.  There is a bit of skill here but it is not going to get far.  Skill needs toughness before it can be unleashed.  Just imagine you have 5 Johnny Gaudreaus on the ice, after a few crushing body hits, cross checks, hacks on the wrist, the skill is going to be diminished due to uncontrolled trembling on the part of the skill player.  I think Peter Chiraelli has out managed Jim Benning, he brought in as mentioned, Patrick Maroon and Lucic to give McDavid the time and space and they are third in the Pacific.  Brad Treliving also beat Benning, drafting Tkachuk who paid immediate dividend with toughness and scoring Calgary has 13 more wins than losses.  Tkachuk elbowed Dowdy, next time Dowdy is not going to go near Tkachuk, that's what toughness will do.   I don't get Willy neither.  So many goals against us cause our goalie is screened, can Willy just tell the D to at least battle with the opposing forward so that he pays a price for standing in front of poor Miller. We could prevent a goal a game just doing that. I know Gudbranson is not there but the coach should get whoever playing D to try to clear the crease, instead so many time our guy is in front of the opposing forward and double screens our goalie, great way to loose.   Willy is about being responsible at both ends but he has not used his assets to the team's advantage.  Have some plays to spring Goldobin and Baerstchi, they are wasted as a checker.  Why won't they play Padan over Biega for toughness.  Our team never finishes their checks, the opposing D has no sore muscles after a game against us.  It hasn't worked the entire season but Willy just keeps sticking with the same old same old.  I am so stressed and frustrated over the bland style of the Canucks the whole season.  The whole team is just bland and also looks like a farm team.  No wonder the results are the way they are, 7 games below 500.  Yes we need toughness, at least if we loose, I would be less frustrated than seeing our guys get run over on top of that, right now the Canucks remind me of my life, getting run over by my boss and not even a peep out of me. 

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1 hour ago, numb3r 16 said:

put pedan on the sedin line 

I did that thing you do were you just breeze over some posts, I came back and saw this gem. Well done sir thanks for the laugh that's awesome.

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We aren't gonna be that tough at fwd for a while maybe Virtanen steps up, maybe Dorsett makes a full recovery and comes back better than ever, maybe Cramberry makes the jump to top 9 but those are big maybe's. Having Gud, Tram, Sbisa on D will be very important while Bae, Goldobin, Granlund, Boeser, Boucher, Dahlin etc audition to fill our more pressing need of goal scoring. 

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Posted (edited)

Team toughness comes with swagger which comes from a winning environment. If you look at the current dynasties like Pitt and Chi they don't have a lot of fighters or big bodies but they have developed a history of winning and high compete level. Guys that are willing to stand up for the success of their team. You don't need to have designated tough guys or hired goons to win games. Atleast not anymore.

 

You play hard in between the whistles and carry yourself with a certain confidence. That is hard to teach but you can see it in the Crosby's and Toew's. It's about believing in winning and doing whatever it takes.

 

Our young core will have to learn that, and it might take a couple years of getting bullied and being the new kids on the block. 

 

The star players that have the passion to win usually have the same passion to pushback if their opponents tempt them. Examples: Benn, Perry, Iginlia, Marchand, Bergeron, Burns, Malkin, Carter, Kesler, Toews, Koivu... 

 

My point being that teams that have players with pushback usually stem from their star players and core. They set the tone and the culture for their team. It takes time and experience to earn this swagger and pushback. Having Cram, Try, Gud, and Labate is plenty at this point. 

Edited by Camel Toe Drag
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1 hour ago, billabong said:

No we need grit on in our forward group.

 

virtanen is the guy to bring that physical play so he's a big part of that

 

and I'll keep plugging this...peluso!

 

hes 27 6 foot 3 235 pounds of enforcer.UFA this summer

 

The guy is a heavy weight. We need that. Need a guy to protect the kids. Guddy can't do it all him self and dorsett just physically can't go toe to toe with the bigger guys 

 

 

 

 

Peluso is a legit top 5 heavy but I HIGHLY doubt the Canuck's of all teams go with a strict enforcer this day and age. 

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We lost that gritty, hard nosed toughness when Kesler was traded. Haven't had that in the top 6 since. Dorsett fills in for the bottom 6, but he's been gone all year and then we replaced Bieksa's toughness with Gudranson and he's been gone over half the season. Until we have another Kesler like player in the top 6, we are going to have issues getting goals, you need a guy that goes hard to the net and digs for greasey goals. Need more chaos in front of the oppositions goal

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2 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Apologies if a similar thread has already been served up. But I'd like to see fan's assessments/analysis of what we should do here.

 

Watching Cal, Edm & Ana recently, it seems these teams have been built with plenty of grit, alongside their young skill. Likely the Desert Dawgs will be following suit.

Our division is looking (increasingly) that size & attitude will be required.

 

 1) Do we have enough?

 2 )Should we draft it? Summer-sign it? Trade for it? Or all of the above?

 

Lastly, might the pendulum swing the other way? Might the league try to phase out most of this sanctioned violence? Thought this was trending(a few yrs back), but it appears to be reverting back to old patterns.

 

We drafted Virtanen, partly, for this reason and how's that working out?  I'm not writing him off but he hasn't impressed so far so drafting with this need as a priority doesn't always work.

You use Cal, Edm and Ana as examples.  The better example would be Chicago.  Do they have much toughness?  They've won 3 keeps, if I were to emulate any team it would be them.

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2 hours ago, kingofsurrey said:

1) Do we have enough?

 

Canucks have zero toughness.  It is a major problem for our club.  It is critical we find some toughness on our top 6.  Virt are you reading this ?

We are in serious trouble if we do a rebuild with youth and no one to ride shotty for the kids.. How did that work out for the Oil stain ?

I would have loved to see Lucic or Kass on our current club.....   Oil have marron as well.

Who do we have that compares to any of these 3  ?  

 

 2 )Should we draft it? Summer-sign it? Trade for it? Or all of the above?

 

We need to sign it as drafting a tough 18 yr old will not help us in the immediate future.  We needed to sign toughness up front but instead our brilliant GM signed Loui E the magician now famous for his disappearing act. 

Lucic was his first choice.

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Fighting the other teams goon is what they want. Laying hit after hit on their star player is not. Speak language they will certainly understand. And if someone punches you in a scrum, punch them back even if your name is Sedin or Edler.

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We haven't had a tough team since we had guys like Bryan Allen and Ed Jovanovski on the team in 2002. Ever since the Pavel Dimitra and Kyle Wellwood days this team has been soft and painful to watch. The flames stay tough because they keep adding guys that can fight and put up 20 goals. I think Peluso would is an effective enforcer but how would he fit in our lineup. Is he really better skill wise than Skille, Gaunce, Megna, Chaput, Dorsett?  What would it take to get him? A second round pick? We need a big body enforcer but personally I would rather draft a guy in the high first round like Nicolas Hague who I see having Chara like dominance on the ice and a big point shot like Salo had. I think we are at a stage where we want to build a championship team of young guys who grow up together competing, fighting, bleeding, winning night after night together. Thats the kind of character and grit that champion teams are made of. Teams that can over come adversity. That said I also see something special in Zach MacEwan. I think he will be our Todd Burtuzzi 2.0. The best thing this team can do is keep all our draft picks and potentially try to get some more. Then continue to build our prospect pool. 

 

We are in the beginning of a 5 year rebuild plan that will likely see us at a point to contend for the cup in 5 years. 

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Edler has played some of his most physical hockey when we had toughness all over the lineup. He plays better overall when he's physical. 

 

JB must re-sign Pedan, i know he is probably an 7th defenceman and AHL call up at best but we need someone like him in the system. This team is softer than a wet napkin, we can't aford to lose him.

 

we are injecting more youth to this team and they need protection from teams like EDM and CAL who likes to play dirty when the score gets out of hand, we will need an answer.

 

I like Dorsett but i don't think how effective he will be after his neck surgery playing the role he plays.. I like the idea of  getting Peluso as a replacement. 

 

candidates for JB to target in the off-season for size and toughness: Ross Johntston (NYI), Marcus Foligno (could be our Maroon).

 

 

 

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To develop team toughness you need veteran types to teach the young. This year the Canucks have definitely been short ended with that. Huge confidence when you know you have guys like that on your team. (Edm. with Kass, Lucic, Maroon & Cgy. with Engelland, Ferlund, Brouwer, Hamilton)

If Dorsett & Gubranson are in the line up then that's a big boost next year, but moving forward we do need at least 2 more guys like that. One on defense & one more up front. Hopefully Tryamkin can bring some of that more next year as he matures. I would have him training more boxing. Maybe Lebate can up his game for next year as well?

 

Does anybody have a list of upcoming UFA's after this year? Would love to see what's available.

 

 

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Marcus Foligno would be a good guy for the Canucks who can also contribute offensively 

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Labate-Cramarossa-Dorsett. 4th line next season

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9 hours ago, RRypien37 said:

Peluso is a legit top 5 heavy but I HIGHLY doubt the Canuck's of all teams go with a strict enforcer this day and age. 

I think it's better to have him and not need him then to need him and not have him. It would be nice to have in our back pocket, but I see what you're saying. Can he be effective for 8-10 minutes a game? Not sure 

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9 hours ago, dura_mater said:

We drafted Virtanen, partly, for this reason and how's that working out?  I'm not writing him off but he hasn't impressed so far so drafting with this need as a priority doesn't always work.

You use Cal, Edm and Ana as examples.  The better example would be Chicago.  Do they have much toughness?  They've won 3 keeps, if I were to emulate any team it would be them.

In Hockey - you need team toughness... I agree with you that we don't need goons, but team toughness with pushback...  Cal = Tkachuk, Monahan, Giordano, Hamilton, Wideman, Brouwer, Versteeg, Ferland, Engelland, Smid, Bartkowski.  Edm = Lucic, Maroon, Kassian, Larsson, Cagguila, Nurse, Hendricks, Fraser.  Ana = Getzlaf, Kesler, Perry, Fowler, Bieksa, Boll, Manson, Eaves.  Chicago = Toews, Kane, Kieth, Hossa, Seabrook, Hjarlmarsson, Tootoo, Oduya...  All these players play with an edge and toughness when the games count.  Which makes the rest of the team play bigger and with more confidence.  

 

I said it before, with the Sedins and Edler leading our team, we will never have the swagger that I believe we can with Horvat, Tryamkin, Gudbranson, Sbisa, Granlund, Boeser, Labate...  with a guy like Horvat leading this young team, they will start to play with the same will and "toughness" that it takes to win.  

 

As far as Virtanen is concerned - let's not write him off yet!  He is the youngest kid on the Utica Comets at the moment - he is developing by maturing down there - he will have a chance to develop his game and come to camp next year to try and make the team.  If he doesn't make the team, then maybe it is a good thing that they wait until the Sedins contract is over and he learns how to conduct himself on and off the ice like Horvat does and Boeser does...  These are the ones I would like to see our new crop of prospect strive to play like.  I am tired of the leadership turning the other cheek game in and game out, during the regular season maybe, but during the playoffs - that was the difference between winning in 2011 and losing as far as I am concerned.

 

I trust Benning will continue to try to draft a mix of everything this team needs - but it can't happen overnight - when he drafts a solid kid in Virtanen, he should have drafted talent, when he traded for Dahlen and Goldobin, he traded for kids that are too small...  give the guy a chance over the next 2-3 years to draft and trade for a mix of players that will be tough to play against - with speed, size and skill in the mix!

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It is laughable the way fans equate toughness with fisticuffs. A consistent physical team who finish checks, are hard on the puck, regularly gain body position and, yes, who will defend their team mates with fighting if required  is my idea my idea of a tough team. Finesse hockey can be intimidating as well if executed. It forces teams to change their style or game plan to counter. Boston did that in 2011 and Van could not.

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I don't want a fighter i want toughness. I'm tired of watching the defence wave their sticks at the puck when a simple bodycheck and try to send a guy to the ice would do wonders around the net.

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