Camel Toe Drag Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 A really good power play is pretty scary. Just saying. It's not the 90's anymore people. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuckchuks Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 2 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said: Benning saw the need for a skilled defenseman being of greater need than a forward like Tkachucklehead. And a talented puck mover on the blueline is far more of a rare commodity than sandpaper on the forward corps. no doubt that was Benning's thinking and it is hard to get him to think differently and hence we are the soft team that we are. Not trying to sell you on Tkachuk, just want some toughness. Also don't get why you don't like Tkachuk. He is tough, hates to loose and has attitude, which are characters we are after in a tough player. You can't teach 'hate to loose'. He is also clutch, scoring the winning goal to win the Memorial cup. Made the team which already has monahan, gaudreau, bennett, frolic, verteeg, brouwer, chiasson, not sure hank and danny can crack the line up, let alone a 19 yo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Stoch Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 4 hours ago, Nuckchuks said: Trembling may be an exaggeration but as Burrows said, he feels 6 inches taller when Gudbranson is on the ice. Skill players play more comfortably when protected. The question is why Benning didn't take Tkachuk. He is tough and has the pedigree. Benning likes to pick skill players. He could have gone for Troy Brouwer or Andrew Ladd when Lucic fell through. Instead he went for Eriksson. That is not what the team needs. That is why we are having a discussion on toughness. He picked Virtanen when he and everyone else knew that there were other players with MUCH more skill to choose from, but he clearly thought size and toughness were more important at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dura_mater Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 15 hours ago, Elvistein said: In Hockey - you need team toughness... I agree with you that we don't need goons, but team toughness with pushback... Cal = Tkachuk, Monahan, Giordano, Hamilton, Wideman, Brouwer, Versteeg, Ferland, Engelland, Smid, Bartkowski. Edm = Lucic, Maroon, Kassian, Larsson, Cagguila, Nurse, Hendricks, Fraser. Ana = Getzlaf, Kesler, Perry, Fowler, Bieksa, Boll, Manson, Eaves. Chicago = Toews, Kane, Kieth, Hossa, Seabrook, Hjarlmarsson, Tootoo, Oduya... All these players play with an edge and toughness when the games count. Which makes the rest of the team play bigger and with more confidence. I said it before, with the Sedins and Edler leading our team, we will never have the swagger that I believe we can with Horvat, Tryamkin, Gudbranson, Sbisa, Granlund, Boeser, Labate... with a guy like Horvat leading this young team, they will start to play with the same will and "toughness" that it takes to win. As far as Virtanen is concerned - let's not write him off yet! He is the youngest kid on the Utica Comets at the moment - he is developing by maturing down there - he will have a chance to develop his game and come to camp next year to try and make the team. If he doesn't make the team, then maybe it is a good thing that they wait until the Sedins contract is over and he learns how to conduct himself on and off the ice like Horvat does and Boeser does... These are the ones I would like to see our new crop of prospect strive to play like. I am tired of the leadership turning the other cheek game in and game out, during the regular season maybe, but during the playoffs - that was the difference between winning in 2011 and losing as far as I am concerned. I trust Benning will continue to try to draft a mix of everything this team needs - but it can't happen overnight - when he drafts a solid kid in Virtanen, he should have drafted talent, when he traded for Dahlen and Goldobin, he traded for kids that are too small... give the guy a chance over the next 2-3 years to draft and trade for a mix of players that will be tough to play against - with speed, size and skill in the mix! How do you include Toews and especially Kane in this list? Kane tough? I agree they play with an edge and are exceptional players but tough is the last thing that comes to mind when I think of Kane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-23 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Camel Toe Drag said: A really good power play is pretty scary. Just saying. It's not the 90's anymore people. It may not be the 90's anymore but younger teams like Edmonton, Calgary and Toronto are getting tougher. Edmonton and Calgary both teams we will most likely see in the future for Playoffs, they are both physical teams with physical players. Tkachuk just went after Doughty a Stanley Cup Champion, captain, respected player around the league, and he continued to go after Doughty yesterday. He's only a kid, imagine what he would do in a Playoff Series, or the things he would do in his prime. Edomonton has players like Maroon, Kassian, Lucic. Kassian pissed of Chara a couple of weeks ago and got him to fight. We don't want to see our best players get run at because we lack toughness. Toronto a very young team, threw those big hits on Hansen, and Daniel, I don't want our players get run at. The 2011 Canuck team was physical, which played a big factor to why they were such a great team. Like you said it's not the 90's but it's going to be tough not having toughness on your team, especially when these other young teams around you are getting tough. Edited March 31, 2017 by J-23 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvistein Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 12 minutes ago, Nuckchuks said: no doubt that was Benning's thinking and it is hard to get him to think differently and hence we are the soft team that we are. Not trying to sell you on Tkachuk, just want some toughness. Also don't get why you don't like Tkachuk. He is tough, hates to loose and has attitude, which are characters we are after in a tough player. You can't teach 'hate to loose'. He is also clutch, scoring the winning goal to win the Memorial cup. Made the team which already has monahan, gaudreau, bennett, frolic, verteeg, brouwer, chiasson, not sure hank and danny can crack the line up, let alone a 19 yo. Let's not blame Benning for our team being soft! He inherited the softness and the "stale core"... he had a challenging uphill battle from day one with the no trade clauses and the empty cupboards when it came to prospects.... so he needed to add skill and toughness to our team... he started to build from the goalies out (Demko, Garteig) He added toughness on D when he drafted Tryamkin, traded for Gudbranson and Pedan, drafted skill in Juolevi and signed Stecher. I am sure he would love to trade Edler but he won't move... and he inherited a good young D in Hutton... I would say it's a pretty good start on replacing our stale D with potential to be both tough, hard to play against and can move the puck with Juolevi being a potential 1-2 D for power play .. Then he added toughness in Virtanen, Labate, Cramarosa, Dorsett, Prust - not all have worked out, but too early to tell with the young guys.... he also needed to add skill so he drafted Boeser, Gaudette, inherited Horvat, traded for Granlund, Baertschi, Goldobin, Dahlen, Eriksson, Boucher.... There is potential skill upside, as most of these guys are in their early 20's.... so before we start comparing ourselves to Calgary, let's give these guys the same time frame to bond together as a team... With guys like Horvat and Boeser and Gudbranson taking over the leadership... I think that we will become hard to play against, and the "hate to lose" mentality will be strong in the dressing room. Benning is far from perfect, but show me a perfect GM in this league. Now that most of the stale core has left, we are witnessing a NEW ERA and I am very excited to see how these guys come together with more and more prospects being added through NCAA, Draft, trades, etc.. over the next few years. In order for our guys to change our "soft" play and reputation.... Henrik, Daniel and Edler need to allow Benning to get picks/prospects for them at the trade deadline next year like Burrows and Jannick did this year! Linden's trade to the Islanders near the end of his career helped shape our team for years! he needs to talk to them and thank them for all they have done for this franchise, but convince them that them allowing a trade to a contender is the best thing they can for this team's future.... while having one more chance at winning a Stanley Cup! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YummyCakeFace Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Yanik Beichler is clueless. Gritty hard nosed guys that can both play AND drop the mitts if need be, allow the skill guys to play a little bigger and with a little more confidence knowing there's someone there to back them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Baggins Posted March 31, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted March 31, 2017 3 hours ago, Nuckchuks said: no doubt that was Benning's thinking and it is hard to get him to think differently and hence we are the soft team that we are. Not trying to sell you on Tkachuk, just want some toughness. Also don't get why you don't like Tkachuk. He is tough, hates to loose and has attitude, which are characters we are after in a tough player. You can't teach 'hate to loose'. He is also clutch, scoring the winning goal to win the Memorial cup. Made the team which already has monahan, gaudreau, bennett, frolic, verteeg, brouwer, chiasson, not sure hank and danny can crack the line up, let alone a 19 yo. Sbisa, Gudbranson, Tryamkin, Dorsett, Virtanen. It's a good start. He drafts Virtanen and fans whine we could have got skill. He drafts Juolevi and fans whine we could have got toughness. No win situation for Jimbo. Fans want everything all at once. Benning started with no prospect pool to speak of with an entire team of aging vets to replace. Seems like the expectation around here is the entire team would be rebuilt and the prospect pool filled in a year. Well, Rome wasn't build in a day. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 8 hours ago, riffraff said: To be fair. This wasn't prime red wing probert. And if it was he would kill anyone on the ice then. Crowder and Probert traded wins losses and draws on their fight card with each other dating back much earlier. In his book he spoke with some reverance on his bouts with Crowds. Same with Clark and how he could take a beating and skate to the box on one leg and help with a ref. He wasn't fond of Brashear....Who would be beat him late in his career whenever they fought with rabbit punches to the ear that he hardly felt complaining he was so strong that he would just hold him in tight and never open up and go to toe (and that he promised himself to go to the gym in the off season so he could break his buggy bear style). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 2 hours ago, Baggins said: Sbisa, Gudbranson, Tryamkin, Dorsett, Virtanen. It's a good start. He drafts Virtanen and fans whine we could have got skill. He drafts Juolevi and fans whine we could have got toughness. No win situation for Jimbo. Fans want everything all at once. Benning started with no prospect pool to speak of with an entire team of aging vets to replace. Seems like the expectation around here is the entire team would be rebuilt and the prospect pool filled in a year. Well, Rome wasn't build in a day. True, but there are a lot of sad faces because Virtanen didn't hit the ground running. If Virtanen had started out, as we all hoped, and management probably expected, JB would have been hailed genius and we would have been well on our way. There is stil time for Jake to turn it around, and if he does, the plan may still come together... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 54 minutes ago, spook007 said: True, but there are a lot of sad faces because Virtanen didn't hit the ground running. If Virtanen had started out, as we all hoped, and management probably expected, JB would have been hailed genius and we would have been well on our way. There is stil time for Jake to turn it around, and if he does, the plan may still come together... Therein lies the the problem though. The need for instant gratification. Many here lack patience. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, Nuckchuks said: no doubt that was Benning's thinking and it is hard to get him to think differently and hence we are the soft team that we are. I think Benning is looking to build a team were physicality is one of the main characteristics. He signed Dorsett, traded for Gudbranson, and drafted Virtanen. However the Sedins and Edler are still with the team, and as long as they are leading the charge and setting the standard for how to play, the team will lack some finish in that category. Quote Not trying to sell you on Tkachuk, just want some toughness. Also don't get why you don't like Tkachuk. I think Tkachuk is a bit of a punk, and not really indicative of toughness. Hell, I'd say Ferland has him beat in the physical category, although when referees aren't calling late hits, anything goes. Quote He is tough, hates to loose and has attitude, which are characters we are after in a tough player. He's not really carving out an enviable niche for himself right now. I'd say he's know more as a dirty player than a tough one right now. That could change, but it will be up to him to keep his elbows down. Quote You can't teach 'hate to loose'. He is also clutch, scoring the winning goal to win the Memorial cup. Made the team which already has monahan, gaudreau, bennett, frolic, verteeg, brouwer, chiasson, not sure hank and danny can crack the line up, let alone a 19 yo. Horvat has that, as does Boeser. Players who hate to lose, who can handle and dish out physical play, and who have more skill than Tkachuk. While Hank and Danny might retire without a Cup, they have way more skill cumulatively than every player mentioned in your post. That being said, Calgary is building a good team, and while they boast a very well-rounded defense, once Benning is done building this team, the Canucks defense will be far more well rounded and definitely more imposing and physical than Calgary's. Edited March 31, 2017 by PhillipBlunt 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris12345 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 You need a few things on the team. You need tougher players for sure but you also need nasty players. I just love nasty guys. Canucks don't often get nasty players. They get rats or really tough players. Kesler was on the nasty side. Most of the current Canucks are not that tough. Grout will be, Derek D is, everyone else isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Baggins said: Therein lies the the problem though. The need for instant gratification. Many here lack patience. I know. Same issues for the rebuild... Before rebuild starts... no problem, get started we are here for the long run... Bring out the drink... After 20 minutes... Its tough to them struggle, but we know it'll be bad, before it gets better... More drink... After an hour...We are going nowhere. After 2 hours... Sack them all... After a few days.... Drinks cabinet empty... mega hangover... but... actually do see some improvement. In saying this, in the end we all want the same. Lets hope we get there... one way or another 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 19 minutes ago, Chris12345 said: You need a few things on the team. You need tougher players for sure but you also need nasty players. I just love nasty guys. Canucks don't often get nasty players. They get rats or really tough players. Kesler was on the nasty side. Most of the current Canucks are not that tough. Grout will be, Derek D is, everyone else isn't. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) What kind of toughness do we want though? I'm already sick of seeing the Canucks getting singled out by the refs because we had guys like Kesler, Burrows, Torres, Cooke. I'd rather the team pound the competition into the boards, and make life miserable with clean plays, clean checks, and clean hits. Unless we can find guys like Donald Brashear who can skate, pot the odd goal or assist, and fight, but those are rare. Or a Jerome Iginla in his prime. Let Calgary have their suspendable forwards. I'd rather win games, and the Canucks turn into a team that's a pain in a$$ to play against. Less chirping. More two players go into the boards, and the Canuck player is the one that skates away. Edited March 31, 2017 by Ghostsof1915 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris12345 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 1 minute ago, PhillipBlunt said: Yea I remember that hug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 1 minute ago, Chris12345 said: Yea I remember that hug. Ah....I assume you'd manage Martin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Bang Boogie Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 4 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said: Sweet Kelowna Rockets jersey though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris12345 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 1 minute ago, PhillipBlunt said: Ah....I assume you'd manage Martin? Not a chance. But I didn't suggest replacing Guddy with me. I also pivot like Dana Murzyn. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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