Ending the rumours and speculation. [Sedins]

[apollo]

CHILLLLLLLLLLLSSS

 

Thank you lord Henrik and Daniel. CUP OR BUST NEXT YEAR! 

[HKSR]

30 minutes ago, The Lock said:

Have you ever read a newspaper in your life?.....

Yes I have.  I read them until my fingers were black, but nowadays, believe it or not, the exact same articles word for word can be found on the Internet.  No joke.

[Qwags]

If the Sedins were slightly faster, they wouldn't have nearly as many problems in the defensive zone as they currently do.

[hammertime]

27 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Could very well head that way (more of a 3A/offense, 3B/defense) setup with Sutter as the 3B centre.

 

Something like...

Baer, Horvat, Boeser

Dahlen, Draft, Goldobin

Sedin, Sedin, Granlund

Gaunce, Sutter, Virtanen

[HomeBrew]

53 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

They could get back to 50+ points easily -- if they'd fix their PP.

Well that's a conundrum... isn't the Sedin mostly the reason as to why are PP is not working? They have become too predictable and unwilling to change things up. I am really hoping that they get split up next year. As much as I would like for them to be relevant after next year, I don't think that is going to happen. The transition must be made. 

 

2017-2018 Top 9:

Baer - Horvat - Boeser

Eriksson - Sedin - Goldobin

Sedin - Sutter - Granlund

 

2018-2019 Top 9:

Baer - Horvat - Boeser

Eriksson - 2017 Draft pick - Goldobin

Virtanen - Sutter - Granlund

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, hammertime said:

Yeah perhaps he gets traded or another guy gets traded and he fits in. It was just a loose example  I think he fits well with Horvat actually but that would require moving at least one of Baer, Goldobin etc to fit him in there.

 

Eventually though, we won't have room to re-sign the Sedins if developement and drafting goes well even if they can still put up +/- 50 points in a middle 6 role.

[MeanSeanBean]

I think we are going to see a resurgence of the twins nest year. Not that I'm some expert hockey guru, but I have a really good feeling we haven't seen the last of the wonder twins. Last year my "controversial" and bold prediction in the off season was that Burrows was going to have a bounce back year. Many were calling for him to be bought out, while I predicted top 9 minutes and a return to form leading to a deadline trade (check the roster prediction thread from last summer for proof). Obviously I got really lucky in that prediction, but I have the same feeling with the twins.

 

These guys are the embodiment of the warrior spirit, and extremely smart hockey player. They have been very clear about their disappointment in their play this year and will find a way to tweak their game to become effective players again. I predict a big 2nd line campaign from them next year.

[mll]

58 minutes ago, HomeBrew said:

Well that's a conundrum... isn't the Sedin mostly the reason as to why are PP is not working? They have become too predictable and unwilling to change things up. I am really hoping that they get split up next year. As much as I would like for them to be relevant after next year, I don't think that is going to happen. The transition must be made. 

 

2017-2018 Top 9:

Baer - Horvat - Boeser

Eriksson - Sedin - Goldobin

Sedin - Sutter - Granlund

 

2018-2019 Top 9:

Baer - Horvat - Boeser

Eriksson - 2017 Draft pick - Goldobin

Virtanen - Sutter - Granlund

Fwiw last game the Sharks feed was quite critical of the Sedins on the PP.  They were saying that they move the puck too slowly, not enough tempo and are too predictable now.  They gave the example of how Henrik gets the puck and waits to make the pass which allows the Sharks PKers to get in position.  Already in 2015 Pearn was saying he wanted them to play faster on the PP.  

[HKSR]

13 minutes ago, shayster007 said:

I think we are going to see a resurgence of the twins nest year. Not that I'm some expert hockey guru, but I have a really good feeling we haven't seen the last of the wonder twins. Last year my "controversial" and bold prediction in the off season was that Burrows was going to have a bounce back year. Many were calling for him to be bought out, while I predicted top 9 minutes and a return to form leading to a deadline trade (check the roster prediction thread from last summer for proof). Obviously I got really lucky in that prediction, but I have the same feeling with the twins.

 

These guys are the embodiment of the warrior spirit, and extremely smart hockey player. They have been very clear about their disappointment in their play this year and will find a way to tweak their game to become effective players again. I predict a big 2nd line campaign from them next year.

I'm with you on this one.  I think towards the end of their careers now, we'll see an on and off cycle with them.  One season they'll be putting up good numbers, the next they'll be back down to 0.5 to 0.6PPG.  Their game relies only on the cycle down low and good passing.  There's no real reason why they can't play for quite awhile longer.  If they were relying on speed and/or strength, then yes, I'd say they won't be scoring much anymore, but something has just been 'off' about them this year.  The passing hasn't been crisp.  When that comes back for them, they'll be back in the 60pt range each, which would be fantastic if Bo/Boes/Baert take over 1st line duties.

[oldnews]

I think their future could hinge a bit on whether the Canucks are able to add the right type of player to help keep them effective.

 

They need a winger with speed, grit, a two way game, that cycles the puck well, and is willing to feast in the hard areas.

We just dealt the best two options we've had over the past half-decade plus = Burr and Hansen.

 

I think if the team managed to add the right complement, the Sedins could extend their careers and remain productive.

 

 

Their drop in production needs to be kept in context imo - it's not simply the Sedins declining - there are other factors every bit as determinant.

 

First, they've played most of the season with revolving door wingers - Hansen was injured for a considerable stretch, Eriksson has been injured and having an off season, Chaput and Megna are simply not going to be conducive to them producing, they're more stop gaps to prevent them from having to work too hard all the time over 200ft and to provide needed defensive support.

 

In addition, Tanev and Edler were out for stretches, meaning the Sedins were also playing in front of the NHL's youngest blueline for stretches.  Then it was Gudbranson, and then Hutton.  Players like the Sedins don't produce in a bubble - like in the Tortorella year, at which point many people were ready to write them off as done, there are other factors that contribute to declining production.  They went from 47 and 50 to 76 and 73 points the following year.  I wouldn't expect that much of a bounce-back, but sustaining in the 50pt range is not out of the question, and if they have some secondary scoring support and a healthier blueline, it's not out of the question that they remain good, important middle six contributors - particularly after no longer facing the opposition's best night in and night out.

 

But in terms of finding the right player to play with them, right now I'm not sure who that is.  Granlund has some great attributes that fit - great hockey intelligence, vision, solid two way player - he's not the fastest or hardest of players, but still, he gets there, forechecks well, and is a decent enough fit.

 

However, if they were to add someone perhaps a little faster and more physically dominant, that would not hurt.  A player like Boone Jenner comes to mind - someone that can bury the puck, plays a heavy game, throws the body and creates space, gets around the ice / a strong skater - a good puck possession player that could bring some of that lost Hansen/Burrows grit, two way game, nose for the hard areas....

Who knows - perhaps that's what Green is doing - grooming Virtanen to excel in those other areas - his speed, right handed release, heavy game - and I disagree with people who think he lacks hockey intelligence - perhaps Virtanen could step up to being a solid middle six option to play with the Sedins.

[-AJ-]

6 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I think their future could hinge a bit on whether the Canucks are able to add the right type of player to help keep them effective.

Do you think Granlund could be that player? He doesn't strike me as quite as gritty as Burr or Hansen, but there seemed to be some Scandinavian chemistry when they were together this year.

[bloodycanuckleheads]

Quote

I think after next season we will be requiring their roster spots for..... Virtanen

This is where I stopped reading.

[aliboy]

25 minutes ago, mll said:

Fwiw last game the Sharks feed was quite critical of the Sedins on the PP.  They were saying that they move the puck too slowly, not enough tempo and are too predictable now.  They gave the example of how Henrik gets the puck and waits to make the pass which allows the Sharks PKers to get in position.  Already in 2015 Pearn was saying he wanted them to play faster on the PP.  

Lack of offense from the backend. I remember at some point last year our defence had produced over 100 points less than that of Nashville and even though the defence has improved this year we still aren't seeing the type of offensive production that's needed to compete. We won't be able to fix the PP until this is sorted out, we're still at the point of trying to find that D who can run the PP. Part of this might be how they're coaching the PP.

[hammertime]

11 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Yeah perhaps he gets traded or another guy gets traded and he fits in. It was just a loose example  I think he fits well with Horvat actually but that would require moving at least one of Baer, Goldobin etc to fit him in there.

 

Eventually though, we won't have room to re-sign the Sedins if developement and drafting goes well even if they can still put up +/- 50 points in a middle 6 role.

After watching them this season I think I would be happier to see them retire at the end of next season and use the Cap space to go after a UFA (E Kane?) and re sign Bae, Stetch.

 

I could see us ice 3 scoring lines and a premier shutdown line as long as we add sand to our top 6 which is why I'd target Kane/Landeskog would be a good target too. We need someone to muck it up and add some teeth to our scoring lines. 

 

2018/19

Bae Bo Boe 

Goldobin Granlund Kane 

Dahlen Mittel Eriksson (Development line)

Gaunce Sutter Virtanen (Shut down + PK) 

[hammertime]

2 minutes ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

This is where I stopped reading.

You don't think Virtanen would be a better bottom 6 option than a Sedin? I would rather have Virtanen on a checking line than re sign Dank for our 3rd line. 

[Phil_314]

Good thing they didn't say "we play together or don't play at all".

At this point splitting them to mentor other young guns could do wonders for the team as a whole moving forward.

[oldnews]

19 minutes ago, ajhockey said:

Do you think Granlund could be that player? He doesn't strike me as quite as gritty as Burr or Hansen, but there seemed to be some Scandinavian chemistry when they were together this year.

I would've thought that he wouldn't be a great fit tbh - until I saw how effective he was with them.   Granlund appears able to play with anyone.  He's definitely a reasonable option - I just wonder if the Sedins had a guy out of the Burrow/Hansen mold, but perhaps faster than Burrows and bigger than Hansen, if that wouldn't help extend their productive careers - but maybe a third Sedin ie Granlund is what would be best.  If Virtanen can learn to read off them though, he does have the size, speed, heaviness, good right-handed shot - it's a matter of whether he can develop the other complementary elements.

[mll]

24 minutes ago, aliboy said:

Lack of offense from the backend. I remember at some point last year our defence had produced over 100 points less than that of Nashville and even though the defence has improved this year we still aren't seeing the type of offensive production that's needed to compete. We won't be able to fix the PP until this is sorted out, we're still at the point of trying to find that D who can run the PP. Part of this might be how they're coaching the PP.

Not sure how that is going to help them to move the puck faster.  It's not only on the PP the issue - players are much faster now so they are breaking up their plays more easily.  There is too limited support from the D offensively but that's more complicated to fix and it might take a hard look at the Ds on the team - not sure many are willing to do that.  I think people like the idea of size when more and more teams believe that the game is about mobility.

[-AJ-]

23 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I would've thought that he wouldn't be a great fit tbh - until I saw how effective he was with them.   Granlund appears able to play with anyone.  He's definitely a reasonable option - I just wonder if the Sedins had a guy out of the Burrow/Hansen mold, but perhaps faster than Burrows and bigger than Hansen, if that wouldn't help extend their productive careers - but maybe a third Sedin ie Granlund is what would be best.  If Virtanen can learn to read off them though, he does have the size, speed, heaviness, good right-handed shot - it's a matter of whether he can develop the other complementary elements.

I think an important factor in the success of players with the Sedins is how well they read the game and see the ice. The Sedins are incredible cerebral players and they need linemates that can think the game at least close to their level. I'd be curious to see if Virtanen has that ability, because he certainly has the tools to be a Burrows-type player with more size. Not to mention the mentorship from the twins would be extremely valuable for Jake.

[oldnews]

Just now, ajhockey said:

I think an important factor in the success of players with the Sedins is how well they read the game and see the ice. The Sedins are incredible cerebral players and they need linemates that can think the game at least close to their level. I'd be curious to see if Virtanen has that ability, because he certainly has the tools to be a Burrows-type player with more size. Not to mention the mentorship from the twins would be extremely valuable for Jake.

I think his hockey intelligence is under-rated - largely due to (what I think are ignorant) impressions people have.

 

He came into the league as a somewhat raw teenager - has 26 takeaways in 2/3 of an NHL season - and better than 2 hits game - playing 10/11 minutes/game.

His puck possession numbers were the highest on the team last year at 51% corsi - as a 19 yr old - and he wasn't playing highly sheltered minutes like most young players at that point of their career.

The takeaway numbers are impressive imo - and show his ability to read the play without the puck (something he did well at the WJC despite all the criticism) - he actually anticipates quite well and has the ability to use his frame to separate people from the puck.  His speed gets him there in time to be an effective forechecker.   We saw him very early in his career - despite his size and being a bit green / not in top NHL condition - was still able to blow by NHL defensemen on the rush.

I think there are clear signs of a very talented player with a rare skillset - and I think with time he'll be a very important player for this team. 

But in terms of his hockey intelligence - I wouldn't  be surprised if he's able to learn to adapt to being a good option for the Sedins, and his speed is something that could help open up the ice for them - he poses a threat on the rush and no one gets the puck on people's sticks better than the Sedins.  I wonder if they'd limit part of his game and vice versa, but at the same time, he could be just the guy to create more space for them - and he can put the puck in the net.