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Linden & Benning on TSN 1040 - April 10


CanadianRugby

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14 hours ago, oldnews said:

...at hungover, miserable radio rants

 

otherwise, no thanks.

 

He actually has more experience - which isn't much granted - than linden did when he was hired.

 

what exactly is the experience differential?

 

its a mute point anyways, as neither is ready now and need seasoning.... err... wait a minute, I guess one of them has learned and made mistakes at the helm of a huge corporation and blown millions and millions of dollars... never mind I guess that doesn't matter....  haha, touché.   

 

I just bet Ferraro would have done better than Linden...   although linden probably has learned something in the last few years....   he needs a mentor still imho, the loss of Patt Quinn really hurt this franchise and Linden.  Peace

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27 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

 

The rest of your post is nonsense where you keep the situation Vancouver is in was part of some big plan.  According to Linden & Benning, it wasn't.  The last plan failed, and unless things improve soon Benning will be joining Willie.

Still refusing to accept that you can have more than a single outcome, or a single route to get you to the desired finality of a plan huh?

 

I would hope as NHL execs these guys have multiple redundancies on their "Plans" each year. If you have ever been involved in the ownership/management side of any business you would know that in any given situation there is the outcome you hope to achieve based on your actions, but you also understand that a plan B and C has to be even somewhat in place when the inevitable Snafu that is life comes flying in to change things on you.

 

What did Linden and Benning say when they where hired huh?

 

They wanted the team to get younger ( Check! ) done in part by trading a few second and third round picks for proven players ( Oh noooo! When one of those draft picks they traded away becomes another Keith, be sure to let me know ) Part of getting younger was moving out the old Vet's, they where doing this while still giving the old core ( minus a few players each year ) a couple more goes at a cup run. I get it, you wanted a team with nothing but Megna's and Larsen's for the last 3 years strait. That was never possible, I have pointed out that "The majority of the teams players had NTC's", you say "Yes, but the majority of them are all gone", I respond with, "Thank you for proving my points" you say, "What point is that?" and I say "That it took TIME!" and in part they had a "PLAN" on what kind of time frame they wanted them all moved out in.

 

In reality season 1 was a success, but then Calgary destroyed the Canucks, in large part to Willie not being able to strategize his way out of a wet paper bag. At that point everything Linden and Benning where saying was pointing to this years trade deadline inevitability. So what that they gave the team ( the Sedin's ) 2 more show us what you can do seasons while still working on the overall "PLAN" . Not like they set the prospect pool back, there was no prospect pool.

 

Just because they came out and said we have changed direction, that doesn't mean the original plan is not still being used, its simply the fact that at this point there will be no more big $ UFA's signed ( between Loui, Sutter and Tanev that should be enough insulation for the young guys going forward ) and that inserting currently drafted players as they mature and continue to pick well will be the focus.

 

Tanking indicates making your team intentionally bad. In the coming year ( years possibly? ) any bad showings form the Canucks will be organic growing pains. Edmonton and this years Avalanche where ( Are ) downright bad, not because they necessarily wanted to be ( After 4 top 3 picks the Oilers for sure must have figured things would trend upwards ), but because they had no structure, no culture, no leadership. no " PLAN! " .

 

I don't understand what is so hard to grasp about all of this? I guess you are just bitter they didn't " Tank " from day one.

 

I see the Canucks currently as an LA King's / Boston Hybrid ( with less Dustin Potato and Rat Face ) If Demko can be the guy we think he can we have our Quick, we may not have a Doughty, but we may have a Chara, and OJ projects to be an anchor of a D-man, combined with Stecher, Hutton, Gudbranson ( Who I feel still has allot more to show us, in a good way ) and whoever else emerges from current or future prospects we are looking good on those fronts.

 

If Bo, Boeser, Sven, Granlund can all be 20-30 goal guys thats 2/3'rds of a top 6. This years pick + next years pick ( probably a high one ) and just one diamond in the rough, say a Gudette or a Goldobin and the team has the ability to be competitive night in and night out. If our third line is Loui and Sutter + whoever, because the majority of the top six have not yet signed UFA contracts I think we will be looking good.

 

We also have no idea what trades Benning may yet manage, he had done good with Sven and Granlund and Goldobin and Dahlin look very promising.

 

I chose to not cry over things I have no control of. With the tone of Aqua's Tweet at the end of the season, he seems on board with how everything has transpired and is okay with a couple years of "Re-building" "Tanking" "Toronto-ing" . Should they have started that from day 1?, maybe, maybe not. We Will never know, so just be a disney cliche and " Let it go!" .

 

Benning is going no where until the teams forward progression stagnates in a major way, or all of Virtanen, OJ and this years pick bust.

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Linden said that that 101 point season was proof that the team didn't need a rebuild, or as close to that as makes no difference, if I recall correctly.

 

Ill be honest, I didn't pay any attention to the Media of that season, I am going on what I have read / heard this year and last and what I have seen them do. If they truly did think they could simply swap a few pieces and never have to bottom out, then okay they had some lofty, unrealistic expectations of the players the Canucks had on the roster at the time. 

 

That said I didn't expect the Vet's ( Sedin's ) to decline as rapidly as they have, I don't think Ownership / Management did either. I also think allot of Linden's job is lip service and pandering to the casual section of the fan base. The die hard's make up far less of the overall % of fans than we probably think. Linden had to say the season was a success and that they would compete the following year to try and retain some brand loyalty as ever since 2011 things have been going downhill culminating with the Torts year. It's sad to say but the Vancouver fanbase could not handle what Edmonton fans or Toronto fans have put up with. Just because they can finally show their faces ( Jerseys ) in public, does not erase the last 10+ years of pain they endured.

Canucks fans would probably start jumping ship anywhere between years 2-4 of being bad, and the Torts year was year 2 of the true downwards spiral post 2011 as far as I see it and fans did start to wither and wilt away.

 

By the time Benning took over the GM role the Canucks had nothing in the system ( Horvat was already on the team and Hutton was an unknown ) and they would have had to of, Tonya Harding'ed both Sedins and Bo the season McDavid ( and even Matthews ) was available to out tank Edmonton, Toronto and lets not forget the ugly step child in the room, Buffalo ( Who may never get anywhere for all their efforts to suck ) . Last years draft lottery was a heart break, something Linden and Benning had 0 control over. Laine would have put this franchise years ahead. That said OJ may yet be a player we have not had the prospect of having on team since the days of ( RIP ) Luc Bourdon, if he can reach his potential I don't think any of us will complain.

 

Finishing last was never going to happen and fans would have revolted on the team if the first thing Benning did after taking over was go with Markstrom and say Budaj as starting goalies. Not giving the Sedins some dignity and Honor for all their years of service to the Canucks would have been a black spot on everyone in the organization. It was never in the Cards. Its only in hindsight that fans want history to be changed, but its done and over with, lets start looking forwards, not backwards.

 

I don't think that they have been perfect, far from it. I do however feel like at least there has been a concerted effort to retain prospects and add younger, skilled players. Something past regimes have ignored for an all out playoff push each and every year.

 

Yes!, Benning has always said the goal is the playoffs but the main focus is to build a new, young, skilled core that can compete for the next 5-15 years and that has prospects waiting in the wings at all times to take over where need be.

 

Something, Burke, Nonis & Gillis where never able to fully able to do.

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3 hours ago, R35Godz1lla said:

( Oh noooo! When one of those draft picks they traded away becomes another Keith, be sure to let me know )

Pure 20/20 hindsight here (but drafting gurus and hockey experts are paid millions for foresight) and still a bit early but

 

But the pick we traded for Vey could have been used for Christian Dvorak who is looking pretty good

The pick we traded for Dorsett could have been used for Victor Arvidsson (a 1st liner on nashville)

 

Those picks matter. Rebuilding should be accumulating picks and stocking up assets.

 

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7 minutes ago, DSVII said:

Pure 20/20 hindsight here (but drafting gurus and hockey experts are paid millions for foresight) and still a bit early but

 

But the pick we traded for Vey could have been used for Christian Dvorak who is looking pretty good

The pick we traded for Dorsett could have been used for Victor Arvidsson (a 1st liner on nashville)

 

Those picks matter. Rebuilding should be accumulating picks and stocking up assets.

 

I don't disagree, but when 29 other teams chose a different player ( I know draft position, availability Etc. all play into who is picked and where ) it  can be hard to say, "look at who we missed" as for all we know that player was never going to be picked by us anyways.

 

Teams missed on Tryamkin & Boeser and thats just 2 players we drafted, never mind if you did a massive chart of every other teams picks compared to every other teams picks compared to, compared to, compared to, system rebooting . . . . . . . . 

 

I do agree, the more picks the better, but to say we traded pick X for player Y and missed drafting player Z is far to linear of a thinking process.

 

The only way that saying Pick X would have been player Y for us is if the following was the reality at the time. 

 

The Canucks would have needed to have identified 2 players they absolutely wanted at a general location in the draft. Lets use the Fourth round, in the range of 15-25, where Victor Arvidsson was picked.  They then would have had to trade one of those picks away for say Dorsett and picked a complete scrub over Victor Arvidsson for the scenario to ever work where we could say with certainty that not trading for Dorsett cost us Victor Arvidsson.

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On 11/04/2017 at 5:19 AM, DollarAndADream said:

Fantastic summary of it all. Glad there's always threads made like this.

 

 

 

Also, people need to stop mixing up resign and re-sign. Horvat is not resigning, he is re-signing! :lol:They basically mean the opposite. 

Thank you! This whole discords grammar is cringeworthy.

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23 hours ago, R35Godz1lla said:

Still refusing to accept that you can have more than a single outcome, or a single route to get you to the desired finality of a plan huh?

 

I would hope as NHL execs these guys have multiple redundancies on their "Plans" each year. If you have ever been involved in the ownership/management side of any business you would know that in any given situation there is the outcome you hope to achieve based on your actions, but you also understand that a plan B and C has to be even somewhat in place when the inevitable Snafu that is life comes flying in to change things on you.

 

What did Linden and Benning say when they where hired huh?

 

They wanted the team to get younger ( Check! ) done in part by trading a few second and third round picks for proven players ( Oh noooo! When one of those draft picks they traded away becomes another Keith, be sure to let me know ) Part of getting younger was moving out the old Vet's, they where doing this while still giving the old core ( minus a few players each year ) a couple more goes at a cup run. I get it, you wanted a team with nothing but Megna's and Larsen's for the last 3 years strait. That was never possible, I have pointed out that "The majority of the teams players had NTC's", you say "Yes, but the majority of them are all gone", I respond with, "Thank you for proving my points" you say, "What point is that?" and I say "That it took TIME!" and in part they had a "PLAN" on what kind of time frame they wanted them all moved out in.

 

In reality season 1 was a success, but then Calgary destroyed the Canucks, in large part to Willie not being able to strategize his way out of a wet paper bag. At that point everything Linden and Benning where saying was pointing to this years trade deadline inevitability. So what that they gave the team ( the Sedin's ) 2 more show us what you can do seasons while still working on the overall "PLAN" . Not like they set the prospect pool back, there was no prospect pool.

 

Just because they came out and said we have changed direction, that doesn't mean the original plan is not still being used, its simply the fact that at this point there will be no more big $ UFA's signed ( between Loui, Sutter and Tanev that should be enough insulation for the young guys going forward ) and that inserting currently drafted players as they mature and continue to pick well will be the focus.

 

Tanking indicates making your team intentionally bad. In the coming year ( years possibly? ) any bad showings form the Canucks will be organic growing pains. Edmonton and this years Avalanche where ( Are ) downright bad, not because they necessarily wanted to be ( After 4 top 3 picks the Oilers for sure must have figured things would trend upwards ), but because they had no structure, no culture, no leadership. no " PLAN! " .

 

I don't understand what is so hard to grasp about all of this? I guess you are just bitter they didn't " Tank " from day one.

 

I see the Canucks currently as an LA King's / Boston Hybrid ( with less Dustin Potato and Rat Face ) If Demko can be the guy we think he can we have our Quick, we may not have a Doughty, but we may have a Chara, and OJ projects to be an anchor of a D-man, combined with Stecher, Hutton, Gudbranson ( Who I feel still has allot more to show us, in a good way ) and whoever else emerges from current or future prospects we are looking good on those fronts.

 

If Bo, Boeser, Sven, Granlund can all be 20-30 goal guys thats 2/3'rds of a top 6. This years pick + next years pick ( probably a high one ) and just one diamond in the rough, say a Gudette or a Goldobin and the team has the ability to be competitive night in and night out. If our third line is Loui and Sutter + whoever, because the majority of the top six have not yet signed UFA contracts I think we will be looking good.

 

We also have no idea what trades Benning may yet manage, he had done good with Sven and Granlund and Goldobin and Dahlin look very promising.

 

I chose to not cry over things I have no control of. With the tone of Aqua's Tweet at the end of the season, he seems on board with how everything has transpired and is okay with a couple years of "Re-building" "Tanking" "Toronto-ing" . Should they have started that from day 1?, maybe, maybe not. We Will never know, so just be a disney cliche and " Let it go!" .

 

Benning is going no where until the teams forward progression stagnates in a major way, or all of Virtanen, OJ and this years pick bust.

 

 

 

This guy 3 years ago:  You can't tank and finish near the bottom or you'll end up like the Oilers.  Gonna make the playoffs AND rebuild.

This guy now:  Finishing at the bottom is great, another good pick.  All part of the plan.

 

At the start:

"We're focused 100% on making the playoffs."  - Linden

"I like this team, I like the core players.  This is a team we can turn around in a hurry."  - Benning

 

Sutter, Sbisa, Vey, Gudbranson, Eriksson, Vrbata, Dorsett, and others were brought in so they team would stay competitive.  The Canucks have had only 20 draft picks in the last 3 years.  They haven't had a 2nd round pick for the last 2 years.  All that is over now.

 

Now: 

Hansen & Burrows were traded for prospects.  Expect the same to happen with Edler or Tanev this year.  There won't be any expensive free agents signed.  There won't be any trading draft picks away.  The old plan failed.  Management has admitted after the last trade deadline that they tried going at it with the Sedins but it didn't work.  This team is tanking, something they tried to avoid for as long as they could.  Something some fans on CDC said would "ruin all our prospects." 

 

The new plan is one that actually has worked for championship teams like the Hawks and Pens, and for rebuilding teams like the Leafs.  Benning & Linden admit the team is on a new course, so I don't see why you continue to deny it. 

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13 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

This guy 3 years ago:  You can't tank and finish near the bottom or you'll end up like the Oilers.  Gonna make the playoffs AND rebuild.

This guy now:  Finishing at the bottom is great, another good pick.  All part of the plan.

 

At the start:

"We're focused 100% on making the playoffs."  - Linden

"I like this team, I like the core players.  This is a team we can turn around in a hurry."  - Benning

 

Sutter, Sbisa, Vey, Gudbranson, Eriksson, Vrbata, Dorsett, and others were brought in so they team would stay competitive.  The Canucks have had only 20 draft picks in the last 3 years.  They haven't had a 2nd round pick for the last 2 years.  All that is over now.

 

Now: 

Hansen & Burrows were traded for prospects.  Expect the same to happen with Edler or Tanev this year.  There won't be any expensive free agents signed.  There won't be any trading draft picks away.  The old plan failed.  Management has admitted after the last trade deadline that they tried going at it with the Sedins but it didn't work.  This team is tanking, something they tried to avoid for as long as they could.  Something some fans on CDC said would "ruin all our prospects." 

 

The new plan is one that actually has worked for championship teams like the Hawks and Pens, and for rebuilding teams like the Leafs.  Benning & Linden admit the team is on a new course, so I don't see why you continue to deny it. 

I don't deny that they have changed lanes a bit from when they first took over. I simply believe that where the team is now was always understood as being an inevitability, not some sudden truth Linden and Benning have had to stop resisting and accept or come to terms with.

 

I think fans try and read way, way too much into what is said by Linden / Benning. Everyone wants to be the person who caught them out, or figure out their true evil intentions. This isn't Pinky & The Brain, there is no take over the world scheme here. It's just a group of passionate individuals who want to see the team win. I don't think Linden or Benning like the idea of tanking on purpose. Finishing low even though you tried your best? well that's just a reality of where the team is at, but doing a full Toronto of Buffalo and outright gutting the team and trying to loose? that's just not in them, that's not the type of player's they where and now in management roles that's not the type of culture they want the organization to adopt. I don't see why that is so wrong.

 

What did probably every mother ever, utter to use as children? "If all your friends jumped off a bridge would you?"

Just because teams like Edmonton ( Though in the beginning they where just bad ) Toronto, Buffalo and probably in the future many others noticed that Pittsburgh and Chichao ( and to lesser extents teams like LA ) built their teams though top 3 picks doesn't mean that it's now the only way to build a solid playoff contender.

 

Yes they where focused on making the payoffs in year one and even to a degree in year two ( Radim had a 2 years deal, still had a good number of the old core intact, etc. etc. ) doesn't mean they where not also focusing on the future at the same time. The goal of filling that 21-26 year old age gap was being worked on and was an important aspect of a proper "Re-Build" . What does everyone complain about with Vets? the fact that they seem out of touch with what it took to break into the league, there is less forgiveness of mistakes and growing pains, where as a guy like Quads is barely removed from those transision years from Junior player to NHL regular. Its why Edmonton floundered for so long, they pinned their hopes on year 1 and year 2 players who had no experience in playing 82 and hopefully + games a year with consistency.

 

I agree with you, getting some top tier players through the draft is key and yes, the easiest way to do that is to draft high ( Top 3 or 4 players of any draft have the best chance of being a first line / first pair player obviously ) no one is denying that.

 

I fight against this need to complain, moan and bitch about management and what they have or have not done because I don't understand what you all think it's going to accomplish going forward. Why not flagellate yourself in the public square with bone spurred whips and pray to the hockey gods to smite Benning and to bestow upon us a Generational talent. That would do just as much good as going into every thread and complaining about the semantics of what Linden and Benning say, or wishing we had drafted Ehlers, or complaining that we should have never traded a 2nd for Vey.

 

I really don't get the confusion. When Linden and Benning came in as new the management we all knew year one would be a feeling out process, so instead of wasting that year entirely ( and again I feel ownership had a definite agenda for them for year 1 and maybe year 2 even ) so they gave the Sedins another chance to make some noise in the playoffs. The next year started the tear down while still being in each and every game to promote a culture of compete and determination. ( the very thing that wins playoff games )

 

For the most part theere is agreement now that Benning got far more for Burrows & Hansen this year than he would have last, and I would like to think that by now most everyone has also accepted the fact that given what Radim and Hamhuis had to say after the fact, Benning never actually in a position to move them.

 

Has every single one of move Bennings trades/draft picks/signings worked out? Of Couse not. Has he made lots of fantastic moves despite that fact? Yes!. Have Linden/Benning moved from trying to prop up the Sedins to really focusing on replacing them? Yes they have. So be happy we are about to draft top #5, be happy that we will probably draft top 10 again the year following and start looking for things to be positive about. Stop trying to argue we should have tanked the first year Benning took over when we both know it was neither possible now in the mandate Management had in front of them.

 

On 4/12/2017 at 10:24 AM, 189lb enforcers? said:

I don't know how people get around the past the way they do. Its like an inability to rationalize what the plan was, what it was said to be, and what actually transpired. Most managers get fired for lack of execution. Not these guys. But they did fire the coach!

 

I feel like a broken record. Ownership most likely wanted to try and get back to the playoffs one or two more times, whether it was a delusions of where the team was at, or what the team could accomplish if they simply made the playoffs i don't profess to know. Hell maybe Aqua wanted the peanuts that 2 playoff games would earn him, given the fact that the Canucks are not a main % of his income.

 

What they have said has for the most part matched what they attempted to do, just because the results didn't always match doesn't mean they lied or where trying to deceive anyone. Not really sure what last of execution you are trying to allude to.

 

Even Ownership seems to understand that the fan base can't understand whats right in front of them given the Tweet about the fact that going, wait for it, "Forward", its going to be a rough period for the teams.

 

I honestly don't this ownership or management had / has any confidence in the casual portion ( the majority ) of Canuck fans to stick it out through a re-build process, which is a main reason they refused / refuse to use the phrase 'Re-build"

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6 minutes ago, R35Godz1lla said:

I don't deny that they have changed lanes a bit from when they first took over. I simply believe that where the team is now was always understood as being an inevitability, not some sudden truth Linden and Benning have had to stop resisting and accept or come to terms with.

 

I think fans try and read way, way too much into what is said by Linden / Benning. Everyone wants to be the person who caught them out, or figure out their true evil intentions. This isn't Pinky & The Brain, there is no take over the world scheme here. It's just a group of passionate individuals who want to see the team win. I don't think Linden or Benning like the idea of tanking on purpose. Finishing low even though you tried your best? well that's just a reality of where the team is at, but doing a full Toronto of Buffalo and outright gutting the team and trying to loose? that's just not in them, that's not the type of player's they where and now in management roles that's not the type of culture they want the organization to adopt. I don't see why that is so wrong.

 

What did probably every mother ever, utter to use as children? "If all your friends jumped off a bridge would you?"

Just because teams like Edmonton ( Though in the beginning they where just bad ) Toronto, Buffalo and probably in the future many others noticed that Pittsburgh and Chichao ( and to lesser extents teams like LA ) built their teams though top 3 picks doesn't mean that it's now the only way to build a solid playoff contender.

 

Yes they where focused on making the payoffs in year one and even to a degree in year two ( Radim had a 2 years deal, still had a good number of the old core intact, etc. etc. ) doesn't mean they where not also focusing on the future at the same time. The goal of filling that 21-26 year old age gap was being worked on and was an important aspect of a proper "Re-Build" . What does everyone complain about with Vets? the fact that they seem out of touch with what it took to break into the league, there is less forgiveness of mistakes and growing pains, where as a guy like Quads is barely removed from those transision years from Junior player to NHL regular. Its why Edmonton floundered for so long, they pinned their hopes on year 1 and year 2 players who had no experience in playing 82 and hopefully + games a year with consistency.

 

I agree with you, getting some top tier players through the draft is key and yes, the easiest way to do that is to draft high ( Top 3 or 4 players of any draft have the best chance of being a first line / first pair player obviously ) no one is denying that.

 

I fight against this need to complain, moan and bitch about management and what they have or have not done because I don't understand what you all think it's going to accomplish going forward. Why not flagellate yourself in the public square with bone spurred whips and pray to the hockey gods to smite Benning and to bestow upon us a Generational talent. That would do just as much good as going into every thread and complaining about the semantics of what Linden and Benning say, or wishing we had drafted Ehlers, or complaining that we should have never traded a 2nd for Vey.

 

I really don't get the confusion. When Linden and Benning came in as new the management we all knew year one would be a feeling out process, so instead of wasting that year entirely ( and again I feel ownership had a definite agenda for them for year 1 and maybe year 2 even ) so they gave the Sedins another chance to make some noise in the playoffs. The next year started the tear down while still being in each and every game to promote a culture of compete and determination. ( the very thing that wins playoff games )

 

For the most part theere is agreement now that Benning got far more for Burrows & Hansen this year than he would have last, and I would like to think that by now most everyone has also accepted the fact that given what Radim and Hamhuis had to say after the fact, Benning never actually in a position to move them.

 

Has every single one of move Bennings trades/draft picks/signings worked out? Of Couse not. Has he made lots of fantastic moves despite that fact? Yes!. Have Linden/Benning moved from trying to prop up the Sedins to really focusing on replacing them? Yes they have. So be happy we are about to draft top #5, be happy that we will probably draft top 10 again the year following and start looking for things to be positive about. Stop trying to argue we should have tanked the first year Benning took over when we both know it was neither possible now in the mandate Management had in front of them.

 

 

I feel like a broken record. Ownership most likely wanted to try and get back to the playoffs one or two more times, whether it was a delusions of where the team was at, or what the team could accomplish if they simply made the playoffs i don't profess to know. Hell maybe Aqua wanted the peanuts that 2 playoff games would earn him, given the fact that the Canucks are not a main % of his income.

 

What they have said has for the most part matched what they attempted to do, just because the results didn't always match doesn't mean they lied or where trying to deceive anyone. Not really sure what last of execution you are trying to allude to.

 

Even Ownership seems to understand that the fan base can't understand whats right in front of them given the Tweet about the fact that going, wait for it, "Forward", its going to be a rough period for the teams.

 

I honestly don't this ownership or management had / has any confidence in the casual portion ( the majority ) of Canuck fans to stick it out through a re-build process, which is a main reason they refused / refuse to use the phrase 'Re-build"

The feeling is mutual.

 

You're not the only poster who feels like ownership is the puppetmaster here. Results? What was the goal and how did they prepare? The goal was to supplement the twins and try for the playoffs. They added the BPA goalie and sniper. Is that how you restock?

 

I like your posting, but we will agree to disagree. You might get this way after 1000 posts of saying the same thing. Have you checked out the thread, Did planned tanking work? I think that's what its called. You will find that was one place where these opinions go round and round on here.

 

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"It didn’t take long for the pair to realize they shared a blueprint for what it will take get the franchise back on track.

“This organization needs to play an up-tempo, fast-skating, skilled game,” said the 51-year-old Edmonton native. “Before last season, this team had almost a relentless attitude about them that they were going to skate and to wear teams down and to score, and for whatever reason that didn’t happen last year.”

He said he had never heard of the “Boston model” in terms of building a team before arriving in Vancouver, but added that he wants the Canucks to incorporate younger players into the lineup with a level of both physicality and skill.

“We want to become a four-line team,” said Benning. “You watch the playoffs now, the final four teams that are playing, they have four lines that contribute. We want our third and fourth lines to have an important role in the team winning.

“We have some work to do there in getting to that point, but we want to be a four-line, six-[defencemen] complete team.”


 

“I’m not talking about fighting, but I’m talking about between the whistles getting in on the forecheck, hitting, playing with a little bit more grit to take some of the heat off the first two lines,” said Benning. “They’re skill guys and let them play, but when the third and fourth line plays, lets get some offensive zone time and spend some time in the other team’s end.”

Tortorella criticized the Canucks’ roster as being “stale” and in need of new blood in his last press conference before getting axed by Linden, but Benning said that despite last season’s performance, he still believes the core group of veterans can be part of a quick turnaround.

“They’re high-character people. When Trevor did the exit meetings with them, they felt bad about what happened this last year,” said Benning. “We’re going to try and help them out by having more depth on our roster, playing four lines.

To win our division and keep going, we’re going to have to go through the [L.A. Kings, Anaheim Ducks and San Jose Sharks].

“They’re big heavy teams so when we talk to our scouting staff, one of our mandates is ‘Let’s try to get a little bit bigger, let’s get a little more rugged so we can play both styles — we can play a skilled skating style when need be, but when it’s a rugged physical game, we can play that game, too.”‘


 

“I want to do everything I can to make this team successful. It’s a different style team than Boston, but that doesn’t mean the recipe for building the team’s going to be any different.”"

 

 

 

 

Those were excerpts from their first presser together. They did say they thought the core could still be competitive, but that was never the sole focus as many are falsely claiming.

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39 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

The feeling is mutual.

 

You're not the only poster who feels like ownership is the puppetmaster here. Results? What was the goal and how did they prepare? The goal was to supplement the twins and try for the playoffs. They added the BPA goalie and sniper. Is that how you restock?

 

I like your posting, but we will agree to disagree. You might get this way after 1000 posts of saying the same thing. Have you checked out the thread, Did planned tanking work? I think that's what its called. You will find that was one place where these opinions go round and round on here.

 

 

The funny thing is I don't think Ownership micro manages. I understand what its like to be an owner of a business and have employees who you give goals to. As long as the end goal is achieved without hurting another aspect of the company the process for the most part can be up to them.

 

The goals as outlined by ownership seemed to have been to be making the playoffs while getting younger and drafting well. Put in simple terms like that I don't think those are misguided goals.

 

Year 1:

  •  Playoffs made? - Check!
  • Got Younger? - Check!
  • Drafted well? - Outside of Virtanen who may yet develop into a usable player, Benning did draft well in the latter rounds.

Year 2:

  • Playoffs made? - Nope! ( due in large part to an epic collapse team wide, a collapse that was exacerbated by an inordinate number of injuries )
  • Get Younger - Check!
  • Drafted Well? - Boeser, need I even mention anyone else?

Year 1 and 2 by a very basic goal-results ratio where actually a successes based on what we can guess was the main agenda of Management.

 

Year 3: *** To Start the year I don't think making the playoffs was as much a goal as something they would not complain about if it happened.

  • Playoffs made? - No longer a main goal, and well, no.
  • Got Younger? - Hell yes the team got younger.
  • Draft well? - Not yet Draft day. That said I don't see any reason why Benning wont draft well, given our draft position and his past success ( based on current progression of prospects ) in drafting in latter rounds.

Benning will be safe for at least 2-3 more years at minimum, provided he stays away from reactionary moves and drafts / trades even decently well.

Years 1 & 2 had different goals and agendas to what he will be working on going forward from this year.

 

If there is anything fans should try and understand its that Bennigs first 2 years should probably be looked at as an extension of plans Pre-2013-2014 disaster.

 

This year highlighted a lack of depth and a need to continue to fill the holes in the the highly skilled department of the prospect pool. I don't think Linden or Benning would deny there is allot of work to be done, but I also don't think they will ever say what fans want to hear as that would go against what they tried to achieve based on the goals set out before them.

 

As far as whether Ownership should step back and let Benning do whatever the hell he wants? I know for myself I would have no desire to own a 9 Digit ( probably be just over a billion once you actually have a team hit the ice for its first game ) company that I had to say in how it was run.

 

Do some owners understand their role better than others? Maybe, maybe not. As fans we will probably never really get a chance to see into the true day to day running's of and NHL franchise.

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41 minutes ago, RWMc1 said:
Quote

It didn’t take long for the pair to realize they shared a blueprint for what it will take get the franchise back on track.

“This organization needs to play an up-tempo, fast-skating, skilled game,” said the 51-year-old Edmonton native. “Before last season, this team had almost a relentless attitude about them that they were going to skate and to wear teams down and to score, and for whatever reason that didn’t happen last year.”

He said he had never heard of the “Boston model” in terms of building a team before arriving in Vancouver, but added that he wants the Canucks to incorporate younger players into the lineup with a level of both physicality and skill.

“We want to become a four-line team,” said Benning. “You watch the playoffs now, the final four teams that are playing, they have four lines that contribute. We want our third and fourth lines to have an important role in the team winning.

“We have some work to do there in getting to that point, but we want to be a four-line, six-[defencemen] complete team.”

 

“I’m not talking about fighting, but I’m talking about between the whistles getting in on the forecheck, hitting, playing with a little bit more grit to take some of the heat off the first two lines,” said Benning. “They’re skill guys and let them play, but when the third and fourth line plays, lets get some offensive zone time and spend some time in the other team’s end.”

Tortorella criticized the Canucks’ roster as being “stale” and in need of new blood in his last press conference before getting axed by Linden, but Benning said that despite last season’s performance, he still believes the core group of veterans can be part of a quick turnaround.

“They’re high-character people. When Trevor did the exit meetings with them, they felt bad about what happened this last year,” said Benning. “We’re going to try and help them out by having more depth on our roster, playing four lines.

To win our division and keep going, we’re going to have to go through the [L.A. Kings, Anaheim Ducks and San Jose Sharks].

“They’re big heavy teams so when we talk to our scouting staff, one of our mandates is ‘Let’s try to get a little bit bigger, let’s get a little more rugged so we can play both styles — we can play a skilled skating style when need be, but when it’s a rugged physical game, we can play that game, too.”‘

 

“I want to do everything I can to make this team successful. It’s a different style team than Boston, but that doesn’t mean the recipe for building the team’s going to be any different.”"

Those were excerpts from their first presser together. They did say they thought the core could still be competitive, but that was never the sole focus as many are falsely claiming.

Thanks you! This is exactly what I have been saying without having the actual quotes handy.

 

Linden and Benning never tried to sell the Canucks as being so simple to turn back into a cup contender as a used car they had purchased thinking all it needed was an oil change.

 

Comparing the team to a car it seemed as though changing the tires, maybe replacing the brake pads and giving the inside a good detailing would be enough. They knew they where going to have to start order parts as the last owner had nothing but a spare pare of wiper blades and a half empty jug of washer fluid in the trunk, but the overall condition of the vehicle seemed good.

 

As they started to drive it problems started to arise. The motor was not getting good air flow and it was showing in poor MPG. The transmission gearing would grind sometimes slowing them down, the calipers didn't always engage quick enough, the ECU was starting to throw check engine codes and the A/C was starting to run out of gas. The frame was solid, it had collector value, but it was going to need some immediate love and attention to get it back to factory standards.

 

The long road trip they hopped they could take with it was going to have to be delayed until they could get this all done, but maybe over the process of fixing it up they might be able to take it out on the weekends for a nice long cruise.

 

Who knows, they may even luck out and manage to pick up a turbo system, some lightweight rims and a set of racing seats along the way :P .

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26 minutes ago, RWMc1 said:

 

 

 

 

Those were excerpts from their first presser together. They did say they thought the core could still be competitive, but that was never the sole focus as many are falsely claiming.

Using their first presser?

I don't think that's going to capture their defining of their goals. I've read other articles that point to different elements.

That piece doesn't even begin to uncover the story.

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39 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Using their first presser?

I don't think that's going to capture their defining of their goals. I've read other articles that point to different elements.

That piece doesn't even begin to uncover the story.

You're basically saying that only the quotes that support your viewpoint are admissible. Their first presser together is as far back as you can go when discussing any plans. I was dispelling the myth that their only focus was to "win now".

 

Here's another snippet from their first presser.

“I wanted a builder with similar views that could help us set up the Vancouver Canucks for the next decade and beyond,” Linden said at a press conference at Rogers Arena. “What really became apparent during our interviews is how much we connected on our vision and our values and how we see winning organizations in the National Hockey League.”

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They need to get bigger, gritter, fast players that has skill and an EDGE.  Edmonton has 4-5 of them who will back up the smaller players.

Eriksson will be better next year, he needed a year to adjust to the system and players.

Canucks could have gotten Gabner (27 goals, 13 assists= 40 points) for less than $1,650,000 this year.

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On 4/12/2017 at 0:59 PM, R35Godz1lla said:

Ill be honest, I didn't pay any attention to the Media of that season, I am going on what I have read / heard this year and last and what I have seen them do. If they truly did think they could simply swap a few pieces and never have to bottom out, then okay they had some lofty, unrealistic expectations of the players the Canucks had on the roster at the time. 

 

That said I didn't expect the Vet's ( Sedin's ) to decline as rapidly as they have, I don't think Ownership / Management did either. I also think allot of Linden's job is lip service and pandering to the casual section of the fan base. The die hard's make up far less of the overall % of fans than we probably think. Linden had to say the season was a success and that they would compete the following year to try and retain some brand loyalty as ever since 2011 things have been going downhill culminating with the Torts year. It's sad to say but the Vancouver fanbase could not handle what Edmonton fans or Toronto fans have put up with. Just because they can finally show their faces ( Jerseys ) in public, does not erase the last 10+ years of pain they endured.

Canucks fans would probably start jumping ship anywhere between years 2-4 of being bad, and the Torts year was year 2 of the true downwards spiral post 2011 as far as I see it and fans did start to wither and wilt away.

 

By the time Benning took over the GM role the Canucks had nothing in the system ( Horvat was already on the team and Hutton was an unknown ) and they would have had to of, Tonya Harding'ed both Sedins and Bo the season McDavid ( and even Matthews ) was available to out tank Edmonton, Toronto and lets not forget the ugly step child in the room, Buffalo ( Who may never get anywhere for all their efforts to suck ) . Last years draft lottery was a heart break, something Linden and Benning had 0 control over. Laine would have put this franchise years ahead. That said OJ may yet be a player we have not had the prospect of having on team since the days of ( RIP ) Luc Bourdon, if he can reach his potential I don't think any of us will complain.

 

Finishing last was never going to happen and fans would have revolted on the team if the first thing Benning did after taking over was go with Markstrom and say Budaj as starting goalies. Not giving the Sedins some dignity and Honor for all their years of service to the Canucks would have been a black spot on everyone in the organization. It was never in the Cards. Its only in hindsight that fans want history to be changed, but its done and over with, lets start looking forwards, not backwards.

 

I don't think that they have been perfect, far from it. I do however feel like at least there has been a concerted effort to retain prospects and add younger, skilled players. Something past regimes have ignored for an all out playoff push each and every year.

 

Yes!, Benning has always said the goal is the playoffs but the main focus is to build a new, young, skilled core that can compete for the next 5-15 years and that has prospects waiting in the wings at all times to take over where need be.

 

Something, Burke, Nonis & Gillis where never able to fully able to do.

I was actually quite optimistic about the 2016-2017 season. The year prior we got hammered with injuries. 

Even though Daniel between the 2014-2015 and 2016-2017 season had a 20% drop, I assumed a lot of that was more to do with linemates and overall team scoring with maybe only 5-10% of that due to decline. He was still a +7. I figured the Sedins would click with Eriksson (better than they did with Vrbata) and despite some decline, would be back to near 2014-2015 point totals of low 70s, or high 60s. Instead, Daniel's points dropped an additional 28% and the Sedin's +/- cratered. 

Between adding Eriksson, a healthy Sutter, further improvement from Bo, Baer, and Hutton, plus adding Gudbranson with solid goaltending this team had enough to eek into the playoffs. 

While Bo & Baer progressed as expected and we had some nice surprises from Granlund & Stecher, the vets were AWFUL. Sedins and Eriksson had brutal seasons, which I don't think will be better next year and cost so much money. Our top line scored 41 goals combined and were paid 22 million dollars. Our entire 20 million dollar first line scored just 1 more goal than rookie Auston Matthews. 

Gudbranson was also terrible and injured. Hutton didn't get any better. I thought his play declined in the second half of his rookie campaign and continued onto this season. Also he seemed to get a bit better after Gudbranson got injured. 

So yes there was reason to be optimistic last season. This year? No. Develop the kids. And score some freakin goals! I don't care if we finish 29th again, I just hope we can get into the top 15 in goals for because the entertainment factor of the on-ice product is deplorable. 

 

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21 hours ago, RWMc1 said:

They did say they thought the core could still be competitive, but that was never the sole focus as many are falsely claiming.

"We're focused 100% on making the playoffs."  - Trevor Linden before 2015/16 season.  If rebuilding was the goal then why after 3 years is there only 1 player drafted by Benning on the team?  Why has Vancouver had so few draft picks? 

 

Over the last 2 drafts.  The Maple Leafs had 10 draft picks in the first 3 rounds, Vancouver had 4.  I guess that explains why they had 6 good rookies this year that have already led them to the playoffs.  While the Canucks are just starting to bottom out, as they neither created a competitive environment nor did they start rebuilding until the last trade deadline. 

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