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The Case Against Travis Green

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9 minutes ago, billabong said:

 

Utica season is over now I believe

 

green had goldy for 3 games and he scored 4 goals...that's all I'm saying

I wonder how long it takes JB to announce Green as our new coach, now that Utica is finished?  Monday or Tuesday?

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That would be nice, I like Green more than other coach that might be available, even if a first round coach might be canned this year and there will always be a surprising firing after first round.  

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2 hours ago, stawns said:

You're not much of a "big picture" guy hey?

What's going to happen to green in 2 years when he can make the turd of a roster we have shine?  

 

He gonna get canned because he can't squeeze any offence out of that turd. 

 

Then we'll be having this same discussion again.

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28 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

What's going to happen to green in 2 years when he can make the turd of a roster we have shine?  

 

He gonna get canned because he can't squeeze any offence out of that turd. 

 

Then we'll be having this same discussion again.

The focus of this organization is development even if the offense is not there.  One issue about an experienced coach is that they will always have their favorites while the rookie coach cannot afford to have some favoritism except for Willie in that he is older coach so that's an exception as he is closer to retirement age than Green.   That trait of favoritism tend to show a ugly side of a coach that frustrate management who might want to see their new toy after a trade.  If a coach feels that he is not ready, he should have a meeting and set a outline plan where to satisfy the management's wish and STICK to the plan regardless of the result.  I felt that Willie has failed to heed to the plan and choose to be stubborn.  I wouldn't want favorites in a coach's trait in order to have some success.   Rewarding the fringe NHLers that a coach loves is the most not good way to help the team win a game.  If a coach does not like him, that's ok but he should not oppress his talent but recognize his talent and work with him regardless of his attitude toward the team's culture to make him adjust to the team's success.  I feel that Willie oppressed his rookies too much in that team suffers the overall result just because he wants to win in expense of gaining experience. 

 

Now, talking about offense, we might have top line or top 6 having some success offensively but bottom 6 will not and don't expect to have a lot of goals until we build up some depth.   That will take 3 more years to find some depth with retention and build up some internal competition and the cream will always rise to the top with intensity competition. So we do not have enough talent to carry this team yet. 

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5 hours ago, 73 Percent said:

24th or worst in scoring 3 times since coaching the Comets says different. 

That proves nothing for your theory. They can play an up tempo style and just not score because the talent is not there.

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3 hours ago, billabong said:

 

Utica season is over now I believe

 

green had goldy for 3 games and he scored 4 goals...that's all I'm saying

Goldy did the with the Canucks as well,  despite Willie

 

i hope we reconsider if it's Green they are considering 

 

even Vegas brought in a veteran 

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21 minutes ago, CaptKirk888 said:

That proves nothing for your theory. They can play an up tempo style and just not score because the talent is not there.

Is the talent there on the Canucks? 

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Just now, 73 Percent said:

Is the talent there on the Canucks? 

Didn't say there was. But hopefully the young guys develop sooner, rather than later

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Not that it is especially for the purpose of being "against" Green as a candidate but, just to give a different perspective,  I think there are also certain potential advantages to hiring a coach that has no pre-existing knowledge or biases toward any of our players/prospects. That also works in reverse and gives all the players a clean slate with the coaching staff.

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So if you have a lot of young guys you should play a defensive system. Tell that to babcock. Young team, bad defensive personal, they sure sit back and play defence don't they? Ever wonder why canucks can never develop offensive personal? Seems we're always hiring defensive coaches that never let the defencemen become part of the offence. Lets hire a coach that will pressure the opposition in their end instead of ours.

 Rather they lose 7-5 than 2-1. 

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Another thing I've been thinking about quite a bit. There have been a heck of a lot of coaches with little to no NHL coaching experience given a shot in the NHL the last number of years. Have any of them had any real success? I can't think of one. Green should be an assistant before he gets a head coaching gig in the NHL.

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2 hours ago, FlyLow_ said:

Another thing I've been thinking about quite a bit. There have been a heck of a lot of coaches with little to no NHL coaching experience given a shot in the NHL the last number of years. Have any of them had any real success? I can't think of one. Green should be an assistant before he gets a head coaching gig in the NHL.

I say give Travis his shot.  He has paid his dues in the organization and played 14 seasons in the NHL plus 3 years in the AHL.  Gotta start somewhere.  The Canucks are going nowhere over the next couple of seasons (until we build up our prospect pool).  We've got nothing to lose.  Our young AHL players have good things to say about him. Benning and Linden know him and talk to him about every day.

 

It wasn't long ago that Gerard Gallant and Peter DeBoer got their crack at an NHL head coaching job.  There are more coaches who are new to the league.  To name a few: John Hynes (New Jersey Devils), Dave Hakstol (Philadephia Flyers) and Jeff Blashill (Detroit Red Wings).  I heard one hockey media guy say that one of the worst and most insecure jobs in the NHL is Assistant Coach.  Let Travis drive the bus for a few years and see where things go.

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Just because our team is not flush with talent does not mean we have nothing to lose. We actually have a lot to lose if those players we do have don't develop properly. There is no buffer if the next core doesn't take big steps forward the next few years. That's a lot of risk.

 

Should we trust that to Green who has not yet shown any real tangible results at developing pro hockey players in the AHL? He has gotten his team to work hard, but has also fallen back on AHL veterans rather than Canucks prospects at times and really hasn't produced anyone of note for the Canucks. Yes he has not had a lot to work with but he has had some that have simply not been developed to take that next step.

 

I like Green and think he is a talented coach but two caveats. First, Willie Desjardins had a far better track record of both winning and developing pro players in the AHL and look where he ended up. He struggled with adapting to NHL coaching to a certain degree and that's with having been an associate coach in the NHL. And second, this team needs a coach who can not only develop the young players but also navigate a few veteran players in the Sedins and Edler who all need to be moving into smaller roles. Can a rookie coach stand up to that challenge or will he get pushed aside by a veteran group protecting their turf? If those core players can lead to three experienced and strong minded coaches in AV, Tortorella, and Desjardins being pushed out I imagine they will own a rookie coach in no time at all. A continued focus on building around the Sedins and Edler on the lineup card is my fear with Green. Because the only way that won't happen is if the coach is strong enough to make it happen. Maybe Green is but again that's a real risk.

 

I dont know what Green brings that sets him or the team up for success at this point. I am very skeptical of rookie coaches who always seem to have their success with their second coaching job and beyond. Definite buyer beware of hyped AHL coaches. Dallas Eakins serves as a reminder of what happens when you don't factor in all the relevant facts and base it on hype. Green is highly regarded but his resume is actually very thin in the main area we need of developing impact pro players.

 

I hope if the hire him he is up for it. Because the next coach has to be a clear and demonstrated improvement over Desjardins in several areas to take the heat off Benning and Linden. And despite his flaws, Willie will not be as easy an act to follow as some might think. It will take a strong coach.

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On 12/04/2017 at 11:17 PM, CoolCanucklehead said:

Mr. Linden or Mr. Aquiini, whoever is in charge?, needs to hire a Lamorello, Burke, Sather, Lombardi, Bowman, etc. type of guy before doing anything else including the hiring of the next coach.  

If we try to compare with the brain trusts of our management group to teams that are contending, we're no where close in my eyes.

 

I love Trevor but to be running a $800 million NHL team you need a little more than 0 years of experience. You would think Mr. Aquilin realizes this. 

Yes Mr. Benning helps & I do have faith in his work but he is also a new GM of a NHL team & can't do it all. The 2 of them basically calling all the shots is a little mind boggling to say the least of any franchise of this magnitude.

 

I do not see us matching the hockey IQ of any other team actually. Ok maybe Colorado? 

 

 

TORONTO TEAM MANAGEMENT:

 

Brendan Shanahan  President & Alternate Governor

Lou Lamoriello         General Manager

Kyle Dubas              Assistant General Manager

Mark Hunter            Assistant General Manager

Brandon Pridham   Assistant to the General Manager

Cliff Fletcher           Senior Advisor

Reid Mitchell          Director, Hockey and Scouting Operations

Bradley Holland     Director, Team and Hockey Operations

Mike Babcock        Coach

 

 

VANCOUVER TEAM MANAGEMENT:

 

Trevor Linden       President & Alternate Governor

Jim Benning         General Manager

Jonh Weisbrod     Assistant General Manager

none (Aquilini)?    Assistant General Manager

none (Aquilini)?    Assistant to the General Manager

Stan Smyl            Senior Advisor

Jim Benning, Jeff Stipec, Ron Delorme?  Director, Hockey and Scouting Operations

Trevor Linden      Director, Team and Hockey Operations

?                          Coach

 

 

Sorry not even in the same league. How are we suppose to match brains with that.

Just seems like everyone on our roster whether it's players, coach's or management, are suppose to ALL be learning on the fly.

Tells me Mr. A is calling some (or more?) of the shots. (hard to believe with all his success?)

 

Getting younger on the ice & spending to the cap is one thing, getting younger & lack of knowledge & spending in the front office? 

Recipe for disaster if we don't get a proven veteran in the front office before any other move.

 

Francesco Aquilini
Chairman & Governor, NHL

 

 

Could Krueger be this^ guy?

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The project with a rookie coach has just failed badly. There is absolutely no reason why Vancouver would want experiment with another rookie coach. The Comets suck like Canucks under Green.

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Yeah the best case against Travis a the next Canucks head is coach is that they haven't announced him as the next head coach yet. I'm starting to think they want Crow as their next HC

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I'm going to guess that the Canucks announce Green as the new HC tomorrow.

And that Dave Lowry joins the franchise as well, whether it's as an assistant, or Utica's new HC.

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6 hours ago, oldnews said:

I'm going to guess that the Canucks announce Green as the new HC tomorrow.

And that Dave Lowry joins the franchise as well, whether it's as an assistant, or Utica's new HC.

I think it would have been done by now if Green was their first choice.

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4 hours ago, Baggins said:

I think it would have been done by now if Green was their first choice.

It hasn't been very long - at all.

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32 minutes ago, oldnews said:

It hasn't been very long - at all.

Utica's season was over a week ago. If he was without a doubt their guy, I suspect it would have been a done deal in well under a week. I suspect they're waiting for somebody else. As I've said, Bennings job will likely be on the line with the next coach. That's why I believe they'll go with somebody more proven rather than another rookie coach.

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