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The Case Against Travis Green

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12 hours ago, Camel Toe Drag said:

How many threads have you posted this in now? Not too popular eh. 

You weren't the only one who noticed this.. cry for attention it seems

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7 hours ago, Baggins said:

Actually there was quite a few angry three years ago that Willie was selected over Green. Personally I think they have very similar approaches to coaching. Willie has just enjoyed more success.

 

I hope they're talking to Gallant. Experienced with youth, many years as an assistant, and his firing in Florida simply baffled me.

I'm with you, I would prefer Gallant, but if they go with green.. I wouldn't be angry.  After all I wasn't a Willie hater and always enjoyed coaches that communicate so well with the kids.. plus maybe we can see more Megna ;) 

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13 hours ago, coastal.view said:

i think travis is their guy

he is a coach in their system who they will lose if they do not promote him

he is green.. . pun intended

he will work for cheap.. the nucks are already paying 2 former coaches to not coach . they are unlikely to pony up any large amount of money for any body to coach this team that will lose often next season

i think the nucks are open to a place holder coach for the next 2 seasons

and if that coach ends up being a good coach that is a bonus and he can be resigned

enter green . who fits the profile the canucks are seeking

 

but of course they will dress it up a lot

he is young.. and the av comparison helps (i don't think it is accurate though)

he knows the players

he certainly could have some upside

every good, great or average nhl coach had to start somewhere

I actually think that might be  the biggest factor.  As your said they are already paying two other coaches.  Green is an easier sell to the owners.  As you said every coach hast to start somewhere.  I'd like to see Green given a shot.

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3 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

Travis Green will be hired and he will have one job.

Develop rookies until he's fired because this team will continue to be terrible for a few more years.

I don't agree with you very often but I think you're bang on this time. The goalposts have moved. The primary focus is rebuilding and developing now, regardless of what management or anybody else wants to call it.

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If not wanting to be an assistant at the NHL level is true, then that's a big concern in my mind. Seems like a power hungry type of guy and that's not good to have. Every coach dreams of the opportunity to coach at the NHL level and even getting the opportunity as an assistant is a huge step imo, but if you're that stubborn and can't accept a role like that why do you deserve to be a head coach in the NHL? 

 

I never voted for him to be the head coach I voted Crawford and wanted Crawford before WD, but was willing to accept Green as Crawford's assistant. I thought that would be a good duo and obviously depending on how things went, Green could then jump into a head coaching role after he gets some NHL experience. Although now, if it is true about him not wanting to be an assistant then no I don't want this guy at all then.

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24 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

If not wanting to be an assistant at the NHL level is true, then that's a big concern in my mind. Seems like a power hungry type of guy and that's not good to have. Every coach dreams of the opportunity to coach at the NHL level and even getting the opportunity as an assistant is a huge step imo, but if you're that stubborn and can't accept a role like that why do you deserve to be a head coach in the NHL? 

 

I never voted for him to be the head coach I voted Crawford and wanted Crawford before WD, but was willing to accept Green as Crawford's assistant. I thought that would be a good duo and obviously depending on how things went, Green could then jump into a head coaching role after he gets some NHL experience. Although now, if it is true about him not wanting to be an assistant then no I don't want this guy at all then.

It would have been really awkward for him to be assistant coach to WD - who many already wanted to fire last season.  Seems kind of normal that he decided to stay in Utica instead.

Edited by mll

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I think that it is tough to follow up a rookie head coach who didn't have success with another rookie head coach.  Maybe just bad timing for a Green hire.

 

Changing up the message with a guy that has name recognition and the weight of experience behind what he demands could be more successful with forming a new system and getting kids to buy into it.

 

With Ruff, Gallant, and Crawford (so far) in the mix... it might be tough to bypass them.  Dallas now having filled their vacancy means some veteran coaches will be left on the sidelines.

 

I really think it is important that a new coach teaches an uptempo style of game and there are a few reasons behind that.  Mainly, we don't have the horses to play another style.  Our new crop of winger forwards are skilled guys and maybe have some flaws defensively, constraining their offensive creativity for the sake of a bit of extra defensive structure (that maybe they can't effectively play) is a recipe for a boring disaster.  That was a real flaw the last couple of years, we played such a passive game it appeared that the system was meant not to lose too badly rather than to try to win.  That meant we didn't get any push or offence from the D, and you just can't win nowadays without it.

 

The other big reason for an uptempo style is that they need fans to want to watch the game while we are likely going to lose more often than not.  It is a lot more entertaining to watch a 5-4 loss full of odd man rushes and spectacular saves at both ends than it is to watch a 1-0 loss played exclusively in the neutral zone.  

 

To me if it is an uptempo style you are looking for, then Crawford gives it to you more than the others.  Gallant being the next choice.  There is some nice symmetry with Crawford being there for the end of the Sedin's career as well.  Additionally he has a bit of a different personality than WD, so if you are changing up the coach and message you want the guy to be different.  I doubt Crawford is quite the passionate yeller he was before, but most certainly more passionately expressive during games.

Edited by Provost
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JB and TL cannot make a mistake on the selection of coach.  They've already used their 'get out of jail' card once with Wille D.  Not sure another AHL coach is the right choice.  I'd go with Gallant.  

 

AHL to NHL Head Coach jump is maybe a 50-50 success rate.  AHL hot shot coaches really need to eat humble pie and be an associate or an assistant first, earn the ropes, take it one step at a time. Look at Blashilll in Detroit ... not exactly a home run there.  

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2 hours ago, swizzey said:

Another point for Green to be promoted as head coach.


Jake Virtanen. Here is a guy drafted 6th overall who has been having a difficult time in his development. Though natural to have difficulty adjusting his game as a power forward, he is not where he wants to be or where he can be. He is a kid in a mans body and needs a lot of work. Having a head coach like Travis Green who has had adequate time with Jake Virtanen will set Jake up for easy transition for call ups. He knows Green's systems; he knows what Green wants defensively; he knows what Green wants offensively. 


We don't hire a head coach for one players development. However, this is the added piece that excites me and gives me hope in a quest to hiring a head coach that can lead this young team to success.

The bolded is pretty much my opinion on this. It's nice that Virtanen's starting to do better, but he's not exactly out of the AHL yet and I don't think he's done enough yet for it to be factored in at all.

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10 minutes ago, mll said:

It would have been really awkward for him to be assistant coach to WD - who many already wanted to fire last season.  Seems kind of normal that he decided to stay in Utica instead.

Is that what this is all about he turned down being WD assistant? I'm just going on what the OP said, don't know the whole story... But other teams didn't want him as a head coach you'd think maybe take an assistant job to get in the door first and then open up a possibility to coach somewhere else at least. If being WD assistant was an option he should of taken it especially knowing WD job is on the line, that then opens the door for Green to step into the head coach role if he was the assistant. Would of also given the Canucks the choice to let WD go half way through the season and Green could of stepped in and taken over. 

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8 hours ago, Baggins said:

Actually there was quite a few angry three years ago that Willie was selected over Green. Personally I think they have very similar approaches to coaching. Willie has just enjoyed more success.

 

I hope they're talking to Gallant. Experienced with youth, many years as an assistant, and his firing in Florida simply baffled me.

I agree with Gallant as well. The fact that Florida rehired Tallon after they destroyed what Tallon created there. Here they are with pretty much a playoff team and then somehow analytics takes over and brings the team back down. I don't understand a lot of Florida's moves.

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5 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

Is that what this is all about he turned down being WD assistant? I'm just going on what the OP said, don't know the whole story... But other teams didn't want him as a head coach you'd think maybe take an assistant job to get in the door first and then open up a possibility to coach somewhere else at least. If being WD assistant was an option he should of taken it especially knowing WD job is on the line, that then opens the door for Green to step into the head coach role if he was the assistant. Would of also given the Canucks the choice to let WD go half way through the season and Green could of stepped in and taken over. 

He was asked to be WDs assistant and he declined.  It would have been weird for WD and Green.  

I am not sure he could have left his contract as an assistant coach for another team - there was an out clause to become a head coach.

Edited by mll

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49 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

If not wanting to be an assistant at the NHL level is true, then that's a big concern in my mind. Seems like a power hungry type of guy and that's not good to have. Every coach dreams of the opportunity to coach at the NHL level and even getting the opportunity as an assistant is a huge step imo, but if you're that stubborn and can't accept a role like that why do you deserve to be a head coach in the NHL? 

 

I never voted for him to be the head coach I voted Crawford and wanted Crawford before WD, but was willing to accept Green as Crawford's assistant. I thought that would be a good duo and obviously depending on how things went, Green could then jump into a head coaching role after he gets some NHL experience. Although now, if it is true about him not wanting to be an assistant then no I don't want this guy at all then.

why do people care if he prefers not be an asst coach?  That's a terrible reason not to hire someone.  Being an NHL asst coach is probably the worst path to becoming an NHL head coach.

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10 minutes ago, mll said:

He was asked to be WDs assistant and he declined.  It would have been weird for WD and Green.  

I am not sure he could have left his contract as an assistant coach for another team - there was an out clause to become a head coach.

Well I know another team would be more interested in hiring a coach who would have some NHL experience, just opens a door for more opportunity imo. Yeah depends on the contract and out clause if teams would be allowed to speak with him after a season or not, I do believe teams would be a lot more interested in him if he had some NHL experience.

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4 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

Well I know another team would be more interested in hiring a coach who would have some NHL experience, just opens a door for more opportunity imo. Yeah depends on the contract and out clause if teams would be allowed to speak with him after a season or not, I do believe teams would be a lot more interested in him if he had some NHL experience.

Florida will apparently be asking for permission to speak to him.

McKenzie, LeBrun etc have all been saying that he is very well regarded and that it's believed he is ready to be a head coach.  

Edited by mll

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8 minutes ago, stawns said:

why do people care if he prefers not be an asst coach?  That's a terrible reason not to hire someone.  Being an NHL asst coach is probably the worst path to becoming an NHL head coach.

What? The worst path? Just like any player isn't it your dream to make it to the NHL? So if a player wants to be a 1st or 2nd line player but is told your going to be a 4th liner, and decides well I'm not going to play on your team then unless I'm 1st or 2nd line, wouldn't that be a stupid decision... Why would it be any different for a coach trying to make it into the NHL, unless you really don't care to make it to the NHL or just to stubborn to accept a role with a team, sounds selfish imo. Green obviously thinks highly of himself, and likes control of the team obviously which is what a coach should be, but I'm sorry if your dream is to be in the NHL you take that opportunity and prove you deserve more, like any player who gets an opportunity to be in the NHL because that's your dream.

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29 minutes ago, Provost said:

I think that it is tough to follow up a rookie head coach who didn't have success with another rookie head coach.  Maybe just bad timing for a Green hire.

 

Changing up the message with a guy that has name recognition and the weight of experience behind what he demands could be more successful with forming a new system and getting kids to buy into it.

 

With Ruff, Gallant, and Crawford (so far) in the mix... it might be tough to bypass them.  Dallas now having filled their vacancy means some veteran coaches will be left on the sidelines.

 

I really think it is important that a new coach teaches an uptempo style of game and there are a few reasons behind that.  Mainly, we don't have the horses to play another style.  Our new crop of winger forwards are skilled guys and maybe have some flaws defensively, constraining their offensive creativity for the sake of a bit of extra defensive structure (that maybe they can't effectively play) is a recipe for a boring disaster.  That was a real flaw the last couple of years, we played such a passive game it appeared that the system was meant not to lose too badly rather than to try to win.  That meant we didn't get any push or offence from the D, and you just can't win nowadays without it.

 

The other big reason for an uptempo style is that they need fans to want to watch the game while we are likely going to lose more often than not.  It is a lot more entertaining to watch a 5-4 loss full of odd man rushes and spectacular saves at both ends than it is to watch a 1-0 loss played exclusively in the neutral zone.  

 

To me if it is an uptempo style you are looking for, then Crawford gives it to you more than the others.  Gallant being the next choice.  There is some nice symmetry with Crawford being there for the end of the Sedin's career as well.  Additionally he has a bit of a different personality than WD, so if you are changing up the coach and message you want the guy to be different.  I doubt Crawford is quite the passionate yeller he was before, but most certainly more passionately expressive during games.

Crawford would be the safe pick IMO. Previous NHL coaching experience, Euro experience and this season a Senators turn around as an assistant coach. Frankly I have no real knowledge of Gallant. That leaves Travis Green. No NHL experience but 4 years of AHL coaching and knowledge of the Canuck prospect pool.

 

IMHO most coaches play to their rosters strengths. Whether close checking or up tempo. I would not have said Willie was overly defensive. The team broke up ice pretty well. IMHO the last thing the coach should do is play his team to thrill fans. Whatever coach is hired has to assess his roster and since it will be much younger, coach them to maximize their development.  Being defensively responsible in the NHL is not an option it is a brutal necessity. Destroying confidence in players is one of the biggest career killers there is.  

 

I lean towards Green. I doubt the next coach will last much more than 3 years, the same as Willie. The next 3 years will be all about development and the completed transition to the new core. Green is young enough he probably deals best with the transition.

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3 hours ago, mll said:

Florida will apparently be asking for permission to speak to him.

McKenzie, LeBrun etc have all been saying that he is very well regarded and that it's believed he is ready to be a head coach.  

Obviously the talk is he is ready, but any team who does take him is taking a gamble on a rookie NHL coach, and it all comes down to if a team is willing to accept that, and their are teams who will but lots won't because of possible failure. I think a team would take the risk more if he had some NHL experience already and people spoke highly of him for doing his job as an assistant, then a team would be willing to take the chance way more.

Edited by ChuckNORRIS4Cup

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2 hours ago, Davathor said:

Great post. I can't believe all the pro Green stuff on here either... another rookie head coach with LESS experience than old Wilbur... just makes no sense. Then again the average poster here thinks every one of our prospects will be impact NHL players.

 

13 hours ago, nuck7635 said:

A big complaint around here is the on ice product doesn't match the price of the tickets. If that's the case, and Green's style is similar to WD's, why would we want him?

No, it is not about being experienced or inexperienced.  After all, every coach that entered in the league was once inexperienced in so many ways gained experienced with bad or mediocre teams but the cup contender teams never hire inexperienced coach.   I do not think that this is the cup contender in any shape or form.  So hiring the experienced coach may not be the way to go at their current state for now and I would give Green a chance. 

 

I do not believe that Green is playing the exactly same system as Willie and he has its own system or develop his own once he is given an opportunity to coach this team.   He is only following the order under Linden/Benning mandate to play a similar system in Utica with some variables in the system, giving him flexible to develop guys his own way while playing Willie's system.  Even if Baertschi played under Green on the Calder Cup run, he still was benched by Willie when he made the team so I still think that both of them has two different system and Willie is more rigid in his ways than Green as evidenced by the late season despite ordered by the management team to play the young more.    Willie was not satisfy with his on-ice performance despite being developed and regained his confidence by Green.  

 

Once Green becomes the coach, the AHL coach will follow and play similar system to Green's, that way, when any prospect is called up, he is ready to step in and play to Green's system.   I prefer that philosophy than two different league, with two different systems.   I do not believe that Green likes Willie's defensive system but follows the management's order.  I would bet you that it is too late to change the system with 3 games left but he will be granted an interview and ask questions about how he would change the system and if the management likes Green's philosophy, they will hire him and enter into the training camp with completely different system and whoever the Canucks hire for AHL, they will follow whatever system the Canucks is running.

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