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The Case Against Travis Green


AK_19

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Not sure how I feel about the whole coaching situation but it is looking more and more likely with bench bosses being snatched up pretty fast that the Canucks will go with Greene as another rookie bench boss.

 

It could be a good thing, but I have to admit that the thoughts of another coach learning the NHL ropes makes me nervous.

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to me Green gets 2 years and an option for 3, that way it will not hurt to bad if he flops as a coach which i doubt he will

 

this team needed a change at coach long as Green doesn't do minor league moves like WD did putting chaput with the twins and so on, plus the owners and management wanted to see more of the young guys playing and WD stuck with the likes of the twins and sutter

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1 hour ago, Industrious1 said:

Not sure how I feel about the whole coaching situation but it is looking more and more likely with bench bosses being snatched up pretty fast that the Canucks will go with Greene as another rookie bench boss.

 

It could be a good thing, but I have to admit that the thoughts of another coach learning the NHL ropes makes me nervous.

What's to feel nervous about?  I's not like we are going to have a playoff contending team for about 2 years (if we're lucky).  Everybody is going on about Travis lack of experience.  Let's not forget the guy played 14 seasons in the NHL, 3 in the AHL and 1 in the Swiss league (plus 4 years of Major Junior).  He's played under lots of different coaches and styles. 

 

You don't have that much exposure to high level hockey without putting a lot of tools in the tool box.  With all that playing experience plus his coaching experience (head coach of Portland Winterhawks and head coach of the Comets for 4 years); he has paid his dues (and in our organization too) and he deserves a crack as head coach of the Canucks.  He has done respectably well with very little in Utica (a very skimpy prospect pool compared to most of the other NHL clubs).  If we don't see progress towards a push for a playoff spot after about 2-3 years; we can go back to hiring a more seasoned coach - a la Crawford, Sutter, Hitch, Ruff, etc.

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Mr. Linden or Mr. Aquiini, whoever is in charge?, needs to hire a Lamorello, Burke, Sather, Lombardi, Bowman, etc. type of guy before doing anything else including the hiring of the next coach.  

If we try to compare with the brain trusts of our management group to teams that are contending, we're no where close in my eyes.

 

I love Trevor but to be running a $800 million NHL team you need a little more than 0 years of experience. You would think Mr. Aquilin realizes this. 

Yes Mr. Benning helps & I do have faith in his work but he is also a new GM of a NHL team & can't do it all. The 2 of them basically calling all the shots is a little mind boggling to say the least of any franchise of this magnitude.

 

I do not see us matching the hockey IQ of any other team actually. Ok maybe Colorado? 

 

 

TORONTO TEAM MANAGEMENT:

 

Brendan Shanahan  President & Alternate Governor

Lou Lamoriello         General Manager

Kyle Dubas              Assistant General Manager

Mark Hunter            Assistant General Manager

Brandon Pridham   Assistant to the General Manager

Cliff Fletcher           Senior Advisor

Reid Mitchell          Director, Hockey and Scouting Operations

Bradley Holland     Director, Team and Hockey Operations

Mike Babcock        Coach

 

 

VANCOUVER TEAM MANAGEMENT:

 

Trevor Linden       President & Alternate Governor

Jim Benning         General Manager

Jonh Weisbrod     Assistant General Manager

none (Aquilini)?    Assistant General Manager

none (Aquilini)?    Assistant to the General Manager

Stan Smyl            Senior Advisor

Jim Benning, Jeff Stipec, Ron Delorme?  Director, Hockey and Scouting Operations

Trevor Linden      Director, Team and Hockey Operations

?                          Coach

 

 

Sorry not even in the same league. How are we suppose to match brains with that.

Just seems like everyone on our roster whether it's players, coach's or management, are suppose to ALL be learning on the fly.

Tells me Mr. A is calling some (or more?) of the shots. (hard to believe with all his success?)

 

Getting younger on the ice & spending to the cap is one thing, getting younger & lack of knowledge & spending in the front office? 

Recipe for disaster if we don't get a proven veteran in the front office before any other move.

 

Francesco Aquilini
Chairman & Governor, NHL

 

 

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14 hours ago, VanGnome said:

Making someone the coach for the benefit of one player even if he's (the coaching candidate) not the best fit for the entire team is not how you inspire organizational confidence.

The best coach period will be able to work with Virtanen, and having had Green for a single season in Utica is not enough to justify giving him the head coaching job. He's just too inexperienced.

 

On the flip side top 10 picks bust all the time, I'm not saying Virtanen is going to be a bust, far from it; but you can't use flawed logic to appease your opinion and expect everyone to agree with you.

Edit: Clarifying my opening sentence, lol.

Are you an idiot? Did you not read my final paragraph. If you are going to quote someone, at least add to the discussion instead of just repeating what has already been said.


Incompetent.

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7 hours ago, stawns said:

Which is how the Comets play under Green......uptempo, hard forechecking and forcing turnovers 

Hard forechecking & forcing turnovers was Willie's style too, to be honest.

Uptempo, (aka. skilled hockey with goals) well Horvat, Stecher, Baertschi, Granlund,  Boeser  provided that to the best of their abilities, unfortunately you need more development & NHL talent than that on the roster to provide that type of game night in night out. Unless of course you want to lose 5-1 or 6-2 instead of 2-1 or 3-2 like most of our games this year. Believe me that is not better for the kids or the fans.

Tempo can only go as high as your players can bring it.

Sedins, Edler, Sutter, Megna Chaput, & the rest of the revolving players this year were never going to cut it.

 

I don't see that big of a turn around next year no matter who comes in to coach, Time is the only thing that is going to fix our problem. Unless of course we draft a McDavid or Matthews this year.

Once the horses come our tempo will pick up. 

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16 hours ago, swizzey said:

Another point for Green to be promoted as head coach.


Jake Virtanen. Here is a guy drafted 6th overall who has been having a difficult time in his development. Though natural to have difficulty adjusting his game as a power forward, he is not where he wants to be or where he can be. He is a kid in a mans body and needs a lot of work. Having a head coach like Travis Green who has had adequate time with Jake Virtanen will set Jake up for easy transition for call ups. He knows Green's systems; he knows what Green wants defensively; he knows what Green wants offensively. 


We don't hire a head coach for one players development. However, this is the added piece that excites me and gives me hope in a quest to hiring a head coach that can lead this young team to success.

Virtanen: 16/17 = 63 gp 9g 9a 18pts & -11

 

I wouldn't exactly call those numbers a developmental success offensively or defensively. Nor does it say to me Green has done much in making Jake NHL ready after working a season with him. I'm certainly not ready to give up on Virtanen but his AHL numbers aren't exactly encouraging.

 

I don't really understand the praise for Green. I find he's very similar to Willie but without as much success. Who has Green developed into even a decent (not impact, just decent) NHL player? Nobody comes to mind for me after four seasons there. Gaunce? I can't even remember the last time we had a forward play 57 games and not score a single goal. Not even when AV had 4th line guys playing 4-6 minutes a game.

 

If Willie wasn't good enough I just don't see how Green is a step up. I'd prefer to see an experienced NHL coach take his place at this point.

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I find it hilarious that management, coaches, and so many of YOU USERS call for our rookies to EARN their playing time. Then we have a rookie coach and people on here are willing to just hand him a job, probably the most important position on the team.

 

Ridiculous.

 

This team needs an experienced coach to help stop this bleeding. Green can be an assistant and work his way up the ladder just like every single player should be doing. 

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1 hour ago, Baggins said:

Virtanen: 16/17 = 63 gp 9g 9a 18pts & -11

 

I wouldn't exactly call those numbers a developmental success offensively or defensively. Nor does it say to me Green has done much in making Jake NHL ready after working a season with him. I'm certainly not ready to give up on Virtanen but his AHL numbers aren't exactly encouraging.

 

I don't really understand the praise for Green. I find he's very similar to Willie but without as much success. Who has Green developed into even a decent (not impact, just decent) NHL player? Nobody comes to mind for me after four seasons there. Gaunce? I can't even remember the last time we had a forward play 57 games and not score a single goal. Not even when AV had 4th line guys playing 4-6 minutes a game.

 

If Willie wasn't good enough I just don't see how Green is a step up. I'd prefer to see an experienced NHL coach take his place at this point.

It's not about numbers and it's well documented that they've told him this.  Jake is playing hard and making things happen on almost every shift.  On HNIC, last night, they were talking about Babcock tracking heavy shifts........in that context, James numbers would be excellent.  If he continues the way he is, gets some offensive players to play with, his numbers will go up.  At some point, also, they are going to admit that they can't deny putting him on the left side........he is far more dangerous on lw than rw.

 

I've watched a lot of comets games in the last 5 months and, though h3s not quite there yet, I feel very confident about his future in Van.

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Gallant sounds like the flavour of the month so he will go with the highest offer (Las Vegas probably 2M-3M per 3 or 4 seasons?) Sutter will expect nothing less than he see's his standing as a Cup champion coach 3M per at least 3 or 4 years?. Either of these two will cost a lot. Crawford will cost too and Crawfords only benefit I see is in helping escort the Sedins out respectfully.

Next years draft is supposed to be better. 

To be honest I liked our mini-tank to get us into the top 5 this draft.

IF we start losing again by Xmas (another 9 game losing debacle) I wouldn't mind Green for his lower cost >2M for 2 years?option a 3rd?

The money we save we can use to help buy out Ericksson if he fails miserably next year.

 

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1 hour ago, Baggins said:

Virtanen: 16/17 = 63 gp 9g 9a 18pts & -11

 

I wouldn't exactly call those numbers a developmental success offensively or defensively. Nor does it say to me Green has done much in making Jake NHL ready after working a season with him. I'm certainly not ready to give up on Virtanen but his AHL numbers aren't exactly encouraging.

 

I don't really understand the praise for Green. I find he's very similar to Willie but without as much success. Who has Green developed into even a decent (not impact, just decent) NHL player? Nobody comes to mind for me after four seasons there. Gaunce? I can't even remember the last time we had a forward play 57 games and not score a single goal. Not even when AV had 4th line guys playing 4-6 minutes a game.

 

If Willie wasn't good enough I just don't see how Green is a step up. I'd prefer to see an experienced NHL coach take his place at this point.

Who said anything about Jake being NHL ready? The only thing I mentioned was smooth transition when he gets called up from the AHL. Who are you quoting for this?

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7 hours ago, CoolCanucklehead said:

Mr. Linden or Mr. Aquiini, whoever is in charge?, needs to hire a Lamorello, Burke, Sather, Lombardi, Bowman, etc. type of guy before doing anything else including the hiring of the next coach.  

If we try to compare with the brain trusts of our management group to teams that are contending, we're no where close in my eyes.

 

 

Hopefully not Burke. His rebuild record in Toronto was a disaster - just ask any Leafs fan.

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2 hours ago, Baggins said:

Virtanen: 16/17 = 63 gp 9g 9a 18pts & -11

 

I wouldn't exactly call those numbers a developmental success offensively or defensively. Nor does it say to me Green has done much in making Jake NHL ready after working a season with him. I'm certainly not ready to give up on Virtanen but his AHL numbers aren't exactly encouraging.

 

I don't really understand the praise for Green. I find he's very similar to Willie but without as much success. Who has Green developed into even a decent (not impact, just decent) NHL player? Nobody comes to mind for me after four seasons there. Gaunce? I can't even remember the last time we had a forward play 57 games and not score a single goal. Not even when AV had 4th line guys playing 4-6 minutes a game.

 

If Willie wasn't good enough I just don't see how Green is a step up. I'd prefer to see an experienced NHL coach take his place at this point.

Exactly. The only reason to fire Desjardins is to bring in someone who can improve on him and his weaknesses. Green is considered NHL ready by many but so was Dallas Eakins. The overhype of both is similar imo. Green has not had a lot to work with admittedly but the Canucks prospects he has worked with have not been developed in the AHL to be able to stick at the NHL level as decent players, what makes anyone think they suddenly will by putting him in the big chair?

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8 hours ago, CoolCanucklehead said:

Mr. Linden or Mr. Aquiini, whoever is in charge?, needs to hire a Lamorello, Burke, Sather, Lombardi, Bowman, etc. type of guy before doing anything else including the hiring of the next coach.  

If we try to compare with the brain trusts of our management group to teams that are contending, we're no where close in my eyes.

 

I love Trevor but to be running a $800 million NHL team you need a little more than 0 years of experience. You would think Mr. Aquilin realizes this. 

Yes Mr. Benning helps & I do have faith in his work but he is also a new GM of a NHL team & can't do it all. The 2 of them basically calling all the shots is a little mind boggling to say the least of any franchise of this magnitude.

 

I do not see us matching the hockey IQ of any other team actually. Ok maybe Colorado? 

 

 

TORONTO TEAM MANAGEMENT:

 

Brendan Shanahan  President & Alternate Governor

Lou Lamoriello         General Manager

Kyle Dubas              Assistant General Manager

Mark Hunter            Assistant General Manager

Brandon Pridham   Assistant to the General Manager

Cliff Fletcher           Senior Advisor

Reid Mitchell          Director, Hockey and Scouting Operations

Bradley Holland     Director, Team and Hockey Operations

Mike Babcock        Coach

 

 

VANCOUVER TEAM MANAGEMENT:

 

Trevor Linden       President & Alternate Governor

Jim Benning         General Manager

Jonh Weisbrod     Assistant General Manager

none (Aquilini)?    Assistant General Manager

none (Aquilini)?    Assistant to the General Manager

Stan Smyl            Senior Advisor

Jim Benning, Jeff Stipec, Ron Delorme?  Director, Hockey and Scouting Operations

Trevor Linden      Director, Team and Hockey Operations

?                          Coach

 

 

Sorry not even in the same league. How are we suppose to match brains with that.

Just seems like everyone on our roster whether it's players, coach's or management, are suppose to ALL be learning on the fly.

Tells me Mr. A is calling some (or more?) of the shots. (hard to believe with all his success?)

 

Getting younger on the ice & spending to the cap is one thing, getting younger & lack of knowledge & spending in the front office? 

Recipe for disaster if we don't get a proven veteran in the front office before any other move.

 

Francesco Aquilini
Chairman & Governor, NHL

 

 

Toronto having 3 assistants to Lou and an advisor is called overkill. In the end Lou has a pretty strong personality I think it's just to insulate him from the media for anything that goes wrong. There should be an Assistant GM, GM, President, and that's it. 3 senior positions, maybe 4 with contract duties,  with the GM making all the hockey decisions. Maybe that's why Toronto wasn't active at the trade deadline, too many chefs in the kitchen. I am not a fan of Weisbrod at all and I'd be happier with someone with salary cap and legal experience with the CBA. 

 

Lets look at a STANLEY CUP WINNING organization: 

Pittsburgh. It has Rutherford as GM and Executive VP,  An associate GM in Jason Botterill (ex-player), and Assistant GM Bill Guerin (Also ex-player), and Jason Karmanos as VP of Hockey Operations. Guerin and Botterill,  are on year 3. Karmanos, Rutherford brought from Carolina.

 

All the positions if you look at the Pittsburgh website have clearly defined roles. Oh and by the way did you know Rutherford was a goalie for 13 years in the NHL?

If anything the Canucks need a capologist/contract guy. and an assistant that just works with Benning for AHL/Scouting/Player development. And perhaps a review of team doctors, medical staff, fitness, and nutritional issues. To try to minimize stuff like food poisoning and outbreaks of mumps, and to help players get the medical help they need and diagnose issues properly. 

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