Vilardi over Patrick?

[Fanuck]

4 hours ago, thejazz97 said:

If you're at number two and Hischier's taken #1... trade down.

I wouldn't rule this option out whatsoever, but with a catch....

 

If Vegas wants our #2 overall to go with their own pick, I'd seriously contemplate doing something like Tanev/our 1st this year for Vegas 1st next year and 2nd this year.  Let them take whomever they want this year with their 2 top 5 picks and we take their first next year in a significantly better draft with arguably a couple truly elite players available (Dahlen/Svechnikov).  Yes, we lose out on a pick for this year's first, but more than make up for it imo with Vegas' first next year which for all intents and purposes will be a lock to be top 5 (perhaps higher).  Dahlen in particular is being compared to Karlsson (some say better potential which is scary).   

[Vinny in Vancouver]

2 hours ago, HerrDrFunk said:

There was a scouting report from Craig Button a week or two ago which claimed some of the scouts he'd talked to said Patrick is a lazy player when he doesn't have the puck. How much validity there is in that? Hard to say personally as I've never watched Patrick play before. 

I watched his shift by shift, and what I saw was a guy trying too hard to compensate for his not so good teammates. Their D has a hard time quickly breaking out. When his wingers have the puck, you never know if they're going to cough it up or not. You can see from Patrick's skating and positioning that he is tentative when others have the puck. When he has the puck, that's when things happen, but too often, the other team has 2 guys keying in on him. It's too bad that he was injured (there it is again!) during the World Junior tournament. It would have been great to see how well he performs with similar high-caliber teammates.

[EternalCanuckFan]

I can't see the Canucks passing on Patrick if Hischier goes first and the Canucks pick 2nd unless management is really convinced that his injury history is a huge red flag.  Don't get me wrong, from what I have been seeing about Vilardi, he looks like he would be a great pick but Patrick looks like a solid player also.  What I would love is for the Canucks to get another high 1st round pick either this year or next.  If they could get one this year, who knows, perhaps they could even get both.

[morrissex95]

I want Vilardi more then I want Patrick or Hischier

[thad]

4 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

It's been covered before in some rather detailed posts but here's an attempt at a summary.

 

These are the main sources for the doubts surrounding Patrick:

 

(1) https://recrutes.ca/meet-your-makar-king-patrick/

 

 

(2) http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/article/why-nolan-patrick-is-no-longer-the-no-1-draft-prospect

 

Thanks man. Yeah I tried googling but all I'd find was message board links without anything credible. 

[The Lock]

Brett Connolly was taken 4th overall a few years back in 2010 and had a very high ceiling. He was also plagued with injuries and never really has become what he was "supposed to become."

 

I think taking Patrick will depend on how management feels about him, his injury history, his work ethic, etc. His ceiling might be high, but if the risk is too great then it might be better to look elsewhere.

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, The Lock said:

Brett Connolly was taken 4th overall a few years back in 2010 and had a very high ceiling. He was also plagued with injuries and never really has become what he was "supposed to become."

 

I think taking Patrick will depend on how management feels about him, his injury history, his work ethic, etc. His ceiling might be high, but if the risk is too great then it might be better to look elsewhere.

There in lies the worry

Grew up with a kid, big physical specimen, absolutely gifted hockey/baseball player, scheduled for the draft in 97.  Was frequently injured as a teenager due to his never moderating, playing all out.  Endless set backs and re-aggravtions to pre existing or older injuries

 

Scheduled for the NHL draft in 97, missed due to injury, again in 98 missed due to injury.  By age 22 he had retired from playing and started coaching.  Is actually coaching in Saskatchewan now but those injuries left the guy hobbled in his late 30's.

 

This is my fear with patrick, same style of injuries, same possibility for re-aggravating injuries.  Or re-occurring injuries.  Sure sure our doctors might say this and might say that but...Hodgson, Daignault, Rodin is my reply in return.  We've had plenty of oft injured prospects that never panned out in our club history, even with vetting by our doctors, even with high priced physio.

 

This just screams Canucks win 1st overall for 1st time ever...and pick Nolan Patrick Stefan White who either never pans out or never progresses past oft injured bottom 6 player

[oldnews]

4 hours ago, Bur14Kes17 said:

Patrick White wasn't expected to be picked until late in the 2nd round LOL I still remember the reaction of the commentator when the Canucks picked him. "Patrick White!! Wow... that's a really off the board selection.. let's find some notes on Patrick and get back to you." He could t even cut it in the German leagues lol

Cool.  

Patrick White is literally irrelevent to any discussion of a potential top 5 pick.   He was never anything but a longshot.

[DeNiro]

The fact that he still hasn't fell despite everything that has happened the last year just shows how much potential teams think he actually has.

 

Injuries are a risk yes, but there's been lots of cases of players injured in their draft year that have been just fine.

[ilduce39]

If we win the lottery I say we ride the hot hand.  Pick the guy with the highest ceiling, risks be damned.

[Boeser6]

12 hours ago, Luckylarry said:

Never heard that stuff either.  Can these super talented guys just look a bit lazy on the ice because they read the play so well they don't need to move like crazy to get to the pucks?

there was some article posted recently with quotes from some coaches in the WHL and some scouts questioning his effort, committment to D, overall competitiveness -that's why people are concerned - you never like to hear that about a guy expected to go #1 overall - he should pretty much tick all the boxes even if not consensus and competing with someone else for that spot.

 

Add injury concerns / potential brittleness it raises red flags. I don't have the link to the article but is was shared on the site recently

[PuckYa]

Let the countdown begin!

10 Days To Go Till the biggest day of the season (excluding draft day of course).

 

 

http://www.mynhldraft.com/NHL-Mock-Draft/

 

This draft we could possibly get out future #1(a/b) Center or #1 Defense-man if Mr.JB decides to go that way for the next 10+ years. 
I actually enjoy reading most of the members posts & doing some reasonable predictions like the rest of us once in a while. With that, of course #1 is what we all are hoping for here & no matter what our past history has shown, I'm still looking at no worse than 5, lol. I mean #1.  

 

Anyways I'm hoping for the best but no matter what the lottery # is, I will still be happy & excited to see who we'll be adding to our prospect pool as the # is just a # until the kid actually arrives.

Then the real predictions will begin.

 

 

 

https://www.nhl.com/news/2017-nhl-draft-lottery-to-be-held-april-29/c-288660422

NEW YORK -- The National Hockey League announced today the 2017 NHL Draft Lottery, used to determine the order of selection for the first 15 picks in the first round of the 2017 NHL Draft, will be held on Saturday, April 29 in Toronto. The results of the Draft Lottery will be announced shortly after 8 p.m. ET, during live coverage of the event on NBC, CBC and TVA. Coverage on CBC begins at 7:30 p.m., ET.

The 2017 NHL Draft Lottery will consist of three drawings: the 1st Lottery Draw will determine the club selecting first overall, the 2nd Lottery Draw will determine the club selecting second overall and the 3rd Lottery Draw will determine the club selecting third overall.

Participants in the Draft Lottery include the expansion Vegas Golden Knights, who begin play in the 2017-18 season, and all other Clubs that did not qualify for this season's Stanley Cup Playoffs (or Clubs that acquired the first-round picks of those non-Playoff Clubs).

The Golden Knights will be afforded the exact same lottery odds as the team finishing the regular season in 28th place -- or with the third-worst regular-season record. They will be guaranteed no lower than the sixth overall selection.

To accommodate the addition of a 15th team in the Draft Lottery, the odds for all other participating teams have been reduced proportionally from the odds utilized in last year's Draft Lottery.

The allocation of odds for the 1st Lottery Draw of the 2017 NHL Draft Lottery is as follows:

 

Non-Playoff Team
(Fewest Pts. to Most)   Odds
Colorado Avalanche   18.0%
*Vancouver Canucks   12.1%
Vegas Golden Knights *   10.3%
Arizona Coyotes   10.3%
New Jersey Devils   8.5%
Buffalo Sabres   7.6%
Detroit Red Wings   6.7%
Dallas Stars   5.8%
Florida Panthers   5.4%
Los Angeles Kings   4.5%
Carolina Hurricanes   3.2%
Winnipeg Jets   2.7%
Philadelphia Flyers   2.2%
Tampa Bay Lightning   1.8%
New York Islanders   0.9%

 

* Vegas assigned same lottery odds as the team finishing the regular season in 28th place

[bp79]

Injuries do bother me a bit. bit they don't seem to bother the scouts as most still have him at # 1 And when he came back he lit it up. Also wasn't  one those injuries mo/o.

[bp79]

10 hours ago, DeNiro said:

The fact that he still hasn't fell despite everything that has happened the last year just shows how much potential teams think he actually has.

 

Injuries are a risk yes, but there's been lots of cases of players injured in their draft year that have been just fine.

 

Pretty much what I said, tho less articulated 

[Ghostsof1915]

Can someone explain why Mittelstadt is better than Vilardi? All I can see is he can play wing or centre. Vilardi is bigger. I'd rather go with Rasmussen or Cal Foote by trading down. 

[smithers joe]

10 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Can someone explain why Mittelstadt is better than Vilardi? All I can see is he can play wing or centre. Vilardi is bigger. I'd rather go with Rasmussen or Cal Foote by trading down. 

i can't tell who is better. all i have is what i read. someone who has watched them all play, (scouts) could give you a more informed report. hischier is the only one i've seen play. but i don't know the character of or team play of him or anyone. 

[cyoung]

I'm not worried one bit this year. We have a guaranteed top 5 and the top 5 players are all going to be good players, even with Patrick's injury history. 

[Phat Fingers]

On 2017-04-18 at 10:29 AM, AZCanuck said:

If the Canucks end up at #2 and Nico goes first...

Considering Patrick's lengthy injury history and often-questioned work ethic, would it be a better choice to go with a player like Vilardi who appears to be a safer pick?

Not safer if a GM wants to keep his job. Vlardi is a good pick, but not while either Nico or Nolan is on the board. 

[Phat Fingers]

10 hours ago, bp79 said:

Injuries do bother me a bit. bit they don't seem to bother the scouts as most still have him at # 1 And when he came back he lit it up. Also wasn't  one those injuries mo/o.

Injuries are hard for the armchair guy to assess. Patrick could still be growning, some surgeries wait until a person is full grown to ensure that after the repair of a ligament say, it doesn't shorten and cause more problems than it solved. If Patrick has had sports hernias that have not been repaired, it may be due to his age. 

 

Any GM with a chance to pick Patrick needs to spend some money on doctors to really assess and study Patrick's injuries. 

 

EmW

[ForsbergTheGreat]

3rd overall seems to be the right spot for Vilardi. 

 

Here's the Avalanche site write up on him

 

https://milehighsticking.com/2017/04/18/colorado-avalanche-gabriel-vilardi-a-statistical-wizard/

Quote

As you notice from his statistics, Gabriel Vilardi doesn’t have the huge scoring you often see from elite players. However, 61 points (29 goals, 32 assists) in 49 games is nothing to sneeze at with his Windsor Spitfires.

What sets Gabe Vilardi apart is that he’s an advanced stats darling. According to Windsor coach Rocky Thompson, who tracks advanced stats, Vilardi is “the engine on this team because whoever plays with him, their Corsi numbers go straight up and are increased.”

Indeed, Thompson notes that said stats tend to drop off when they’re not playing with Gabe. The coach credits Vilardi with making his teammates “even better.”

Mike Morreale of NHL.com concurs that Vilardi is an analytics wizard: “a puck-possessing workaholic with skilled hands and outstanding awareness.”

Morreale also praises Vilardi’s hockey sense and composition during games.

A lot of scouting reports point out Gabe’s size — 6-foot-2, 193 pounds. Again, he’s just 17, so you can expect him to maybe gain an inch (Nathan MacKinnon claims he has) and bulk up with muscle. However, even as it stands now, Vilardi is known for his long reach and difficulty to move off the puck.

However, Gabriel Vilardi has a lot of elite skills to offer, too. Future Considerations calls him a “dynamic and often brilliant offensive attacker” with “skilled hands and outstanding awareness.” The site continues:

“[Vilardi] has a quick jump and agility on his feet, but is not really a speed demon screaming up the ice…plays aggressively both when his team does and does not have the puck; often hunting it down and stripping it from his opponent.”

Side note: It’s funny that Future Considerations uses the term “speed demon” because that’s how Hockey Forecaster describes Matt Duchene.

Gabriel Vilardi was aiming to be a top-ranked prospect. It’s unlikely he’ll go first or second — that seems to be for Nolan Patrick and Nico Hischier to fight it out — but third-overall is a real likelihood.