AZCanuck

Vilardi over Patrick?

Rate this topic

87 posts in this topic

gotta take Patrick if he is available - just because it is the "consensus" opinion that he has the most upside.  I don't think he is a safe pick at all, obviously he has injury issues... but if you win 1/2 in the lottery and you don't want one of the 2 players with the most upside ... just take your ball and go home.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Man...I wish we could find a chart detailing total points by age in the OHL and showing only 17 year olds like Vilardi

 

Basing his production against only 17 and 18 year olds would be a FAR better benchmark for his draft class than basing him against a league of 19 and 20 year olds.

 

Because 42nd in points in the OHL at age 17 with 61 points in 49 games isn't terrible.  But how is that production vs other 17 and 18 year old players is what I'd really like to know

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm estatic if we land Patrick, Vilardi or Hischier. I'm happy if we land Mittelstadt. Anyone else, and I'll have to warm up to the idea. 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Man...I wish we could find a chart detailing total points by age in the OHL and showing only 17 year olds like Vilardi

 

Basing his production against only 17 and 18 year olds would be a FAR better benchmark for his draft class than basing him against a league of 19 and 20 year olds.

 

Because 42nd in points in the OHL at age 17 with 61 points in 49 games isn't terrible.  But how is that production vs other 17 and 18 year old players is what I'd really like to know

Eliteprospects.com

8th in Under 18, and 23rd in under 19.    You can display scoring leaders by age, drafted or undrafted, team, position and nationality if you want to.

In both U18 and U19, Nicholas Suzuki is ranked #1 for points.

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would pick Gabriel Vilardi simply due to work ethic and his drive.

Here are a few things people who know him have to say about him

 

Windsor coach Rocky Thompson

What sets Gabe Vilardi apart is that he’s an advanced stats darling.  Vilardi is “the engine on
this team because whoever plays with him, their Corsi numbers go straight up and are increased.”
Indeed, Thompson notes that said stats tend to drop off when they’re not playing with Gabe.
The coach credits Vilardi with making his teammates even better.


Mike Morreale of NHL.com
Vilardi is an analytics wizard: “a puck-possessing workaholic with skilled hands and outstanding awareness.”

 

Windsor goaltender Michael DiPietro

"He's the most hard-working guy I've ever been around,"  "All he wants to do is be a hockey player

and everything he does is centered around the game.  That's something I admire about him."

 

As for Nolan Patrick, I have seen him play and while he is better than his competition, the gap
isn't as big as you'd think given the praise he gets.  I haven't seen this great speed they talk
about but he certainly is bigger.  The comparison to Anze Kopitar is apt.  However, being bigger
and stronger in junior doesn't always translate to the NHL.  One of the oldest players in this draft
as well as a history of injuries should be enough to question his #1 ranking.

 

From McKenzie's pre-season ranking article on Sep 22, 2016

The consensus amongst scouts surveyed by TSN is that Patrick wouldn't have displaced
any of the top four picks in last year's draft.  Depending on the scout, they retroactively
rank Patrick anywhere between No. 5 and 10 based on his 2015-16 season


Having watched the World Juniors and seen most highlight packages on Nico Hischier, its clear
the kids is very good, but seems more like a playmaker with good speed but not elite speed.
Is he even in the same league as Nikolaj Ehlers?  These are the stats from their draft seasons

Season           Player                   Team                            GP    G       A       Pts
2014-15          Nikolaj Ehlers        Halifax Mooseheads     51     37     64     101
2016-17          Nico Hischier         Halifax Mooseheads     57     38     48      86

 

Leave it to the Canucks to possibly win one the most underwhelming NHL lottery in years.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Agoork said:

Eliteprospects.com

8th in Under 18, and 23rd in under 19.    You can display scoring leaders by age, drafted or undrafted, team, position and nationality if you want to.

In both U18 and U19, Nicholas Suzuki is ranked #1 for points.

 

So, a 17 year old near 6 foot 3 200+ pound kid that wins draws and can play center or wing that was better than PPG and Suzuki who will be a mid to late 1st round steal?

 

Hmmmm....ya Vilardi is soooo overrated :P

 

Thanks for finding that man

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Quaz said:

I would pick Gabriel Vilardi simply due to work ethic and his drive.

Here are a few things people who know him have to say about him

 

Windsor coach Rocky Thompson

What sets Gabe Vilardi apart is that he’s an advanced stats darling.  Vilardi is “the engine on
this team because whoever plays with him, their Corsi numbers go straight up and are increased.”
Indeed, Thompson notes that said stats tend to drop off when they’re not playing with Gabe.
The coach credits Vilardi with making his teammates even better.


Mike Morreale of NHL.com
Vilardi is an analytics wizard: “a puck-possessing workaholic with skilled hands and outstanding awareness.”

 

Windsor goaltender Michael DiPietro

"He's the most hard-working guy I've ever been around,"  "All he wants to do is be a hockey player

and everything he does is centered around the game.  That's something I admire about him."

 

As for Nolan Patrick, I have seen him play and while he is better than his competition, the gap
isn't as big as you'd think given the praise he gets.  I haven't seen this great speed they talk
about but he certainly is bigger.  The comparison to Anze Kopitar is apt.  However, being bigger
and stronger in junior doesn't always translate to the NHL.  One of the oldest players in this draft
as well as a history of injuries should be enough to question his #1 ranking.

 

From McKenzie's pre-season ranking article on Sep 22, 2016

The consensus amongst scouts surveyed by TSN is that Patrick wouldn't have displaced
any of the top four picks in last year's draft.  Depending on the scout, they retroactively
rank Patrick anywhere between No. 5 and 10 based on his 2015-16 season


Having watched the World Juniors and seen most highlight packages on Nico Hischier, its clear
the kids is very good, but seems more like a playmaker with good speed but not elite speed.
Is he even in the same league as Nikolaj Ehlers?  These are the stats from their draft seasons

Season           Player                   Team                            GP    G       A       Pts
2014-15          Nikolaj Ehlers        Halifax Mooseheads     51     37     64     101
2016-17          Nico Hischier         Halifax Mooseheads     57     38     48      86

 

Leave it to the Canucks to possibly win one the most underwhelming NHL lottery in years.

Pretty sure the 2014-15 Halifax Moosheads were a stronger team in general that year and Ehlers had more support and PP time with Drouin.

 

In fact the whole team was better - including Fucale in net.

 

Hard to compare them purely on draft year scoring numbers.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Agoork said:

Eliteprospects.com

8th in Under 18, and 23rd in under 19.    You can display scoring leaders by age, drafted or undrafted, team, position and nationality if you want to.

In both U18 and U19, Nicholas Suzuki is ranked #1 for points.

 

Whoever gets Suzuki is gonna be super happy 100% 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

54 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

So, a 17 year old near 6 foot 3 200+ pound kid that wins draws and can play center or wing that was better than PPG and Suzuki who will be a mid to late 1st round steal?

 

Hmmmm....ya Vilardi is soooo overrated

 

Thanks for finding that man

One thing to considered when comparing offensive stats is the teams players played on.

 

Owen Sound also scored 297 goals this year compared to Windsor at 232 (that a 65 goal variance),

Windsor only had 2 players over a ppg. Vilardi and Logan Brown (who only played 35 games)

Owen Sound had 6 players.

 

Vilardi lead his team with 29 goals. 

Owen Sound had 4 players over 30 and 3 of them over 40.

 

 

Edited by ForsbergTheGreat
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

One thing to considered when comparing offensive stats is the teams players played on.

 

Owen Sound also scored 297 goals this year compared to Windsor at 232 (that a 65 goal variance),

Windsor only had 2 players over a ppg. Vilardi and Logan Brown (who only played 35 games)

Owen Sound had 6 players.

 

Vilardi lead his team with 29 goals. 

Owen Sound had 4 players over 30 and 3 of them over 40.

 

 

Still not seeing the knock on or downside to Vilardi that same are claiming

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/18/2017 at 7:29 AM, AZCanuck said:

If the Canucks end up at #2 and Nico goes first...

Considering Patrick's lengthy injury history and often-questioned work ethic, would it be a better choice to go with a player like Vilardi who appears to be a safer pick?

Image result for andy samberg gif gross

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Still not seeing the knock on or downside to Vilardi that same are claiming

Just skating as far as I know, which Horvat had the same issue....look at him now. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, cyoung said:

Just skating as far as I know, which Horvat had the same issue....look at him now. 

Ya that's not a knock for me.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2017-04-19 at 5:26 PM, Warhippy said:

Man...I wish we could find a chart detailing total points by age in the OHL and showing only 17 year olds like Vilardi

 

Basing his production against only 17 and 18 year olds would be a FAR better benchmark for his draft class than basing him against a league of 19 and 20 year olds.

 

Because 42nd in points in the OHL at age 17 with 61 points in 49 games isn't terrible.  But how is that production vs other 17 and 18 year old players is what I'd really like to know

Cody Glass is only 4 months older than Vilardi. Cody's first year in the WHL he had 27 points. This year he had 94 points. In comparison Vilardi's first year he had 38 points and this year he had 61. 

 

Glass is a natural centre while Vilardi is projected as a power forward right winger. That's the comparison. In my opinion Glass has more upside. Not to mention his brother is 6'6" which means Glass may still be growing and could filll out at 6'4" 210 pounds. 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, R3aL said:

Pretty sure the 2014-15 Halifax Moosheads were a stronger team in general that year and Ehlers had more support and PP time with Drouin.

 

In fact the whole team was better - including Fucale in net.

 

Hard to compare them purely on draft year scoring numbers.

Drouin didn't play with the Mooseheads in 2014-15

 

Sure it's hard to compare them purely on scoring numbers, but scouts have to consider it anyways.

Of course there are other things to consider like work ethic, speed, stick handling, Face Off win %, etc...
But point production is one (if not, most important) component used in assessing value of most forwards in a draft.

They have to go on available data, and point production along with advance stats is where you'd start.

 

As for Vilardi, work ethic and drive will get you everywhere, and that is something he has in spades.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, Harvey Spector said:

Cody Glass is only 4 months older than Vilardi. Cody's first year in the WHL he had 27 points. This year he had 94 points. In comparison Vilardi's first year he had 38 points and this year he had 61. 

 

Glass is a natural centre while Vilardi is projected as a power forward right winger. That's the comparison. In my opinion Glass has more upside. Not to mention his brother is 6'6" which means Glass may still be growing and could filll out at 6'4" 210 pounds. 

Maybe look at the difference in team/line scoring as well between the two clubs as well as the quality of said line mates.

 

Not saying either would be a bad pick, but certainly a thing to consider when one is  playing with say Hank and Danny 2011 to the other with Hank and Danny 2017

Edited by Warhippy
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Harvey Spector said:

Cody Glass is only 4 months older than Vilardi. Cody's first year in the WHL he had 27 points. This year he had 94 points. In comparison Vilardi's first year he had 38 points and this year he had 61. 

 

Glass is a natural centre while Vilardi is projected as a power forward right winger. That's the comparison. In my opinion Glass has more upside. Not to mention his brother is 6'6" which means Glass may still be growing and could filll out at 6'4" 210 pounds. 

Glass will be far from that big. 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Quaz said:

Drouin didn't play with the Mooseheads in 2014-15

 

Sure it's hard to compare them purely on scoring numbers, but scouts have to consider it anyways.

Of course there are other things to consider like work ethic, speed, stick handling, Face Off win %, etc...
But point production is one (if not, most important) component used in assessing value of most forwards in a draft.

They have to go on available data, and point production along with advance stats is where you'd start.

 

As for Vilardi, work ethic and drive will get you everywhere, and that is something he has in spades.

Sorry thought we were comparing the players at the same age and their draft year production

 

2013-2014 Halifax team 

 

how can you compare Ehlers 2014-15 to Nico??

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 18/04/2017 at 7:02 AM, PlanB said:

Difficult choice.   Could be a situation where it'd be foolish not to take Patrick at #2, but as you pointed out,  there's an inherent risk with this kids injury history.   It's the proverbial darned if you do / darned if you don't situation. Take him and he's a bust = shame on JB.   Don't take him and he's a perennial 60-70 pt player = shame on JB - fun times!  I would say take him and he becomes a point per game assistant captain,  but you know - Canucks luck and all....

we must change our perspectives on luck.  this stuff isn't helping create a positive alternative reality lol.  

 

let's shape the future with belief!!!! boooolieveeee!  

 

landing bo 9th overall was great luck. 

bieska game winner vs sjs was great luck!

 

let's stop nit picking only the things going against us.  it's a flip of a coin stop treating it lIke a curse. gotta stay positive peeps!

 

top 2 pick baby here we come!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Harvey Spector said:

Cody Glass is only 4 months older than Vilardi. Cody's first year in the WHL he had 27 points. This year he had 94 points. In comparison Vilardi's first year he had 38 points and this year he had 61. 

 

Glass is a natural centre while Vilardi is projected as a power forward right winger. That's the comparison. In my opinion Glass has more upside. Not to mention his brother is 6'6" which means Glass may still be growing and could filll out at 6'4" 210 pounds. 

I think this illustrates that this is a deeper draft than people realize. Yes there's no McDavid's. But McDavid is an exception not the rule. That's like expecting a Lemieux of the draft each year. Glass, Rasmussen, Hague, Foote are all potential good players. They may not be superstars, but you can still get quality players. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.