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Tankards TOAST to the 2017/18 Season !


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8 hours ago, SabreFan1 said:

As everybody knows, I've been Team Tank for the last 2 seasons, but you have to be careful on how much you lose.  At some point you just begin to foster a culture of "acceptable losing" where you have parts of your team just happy that they have a job in the NHL.  The Sabres have run into that problem this past season.  Some were just thankful and were doing just enough so that they would continue drawing hefty paycheques playing the game while the rest were trying to win with those anchors.  Lehner as much as said so in a couple of interviews towards the end of the season.

 

The Canucks can't afford that to happen.

I agree. It's tough to get up for a game when you're getting blown out night after night. That's exactly what Benning has been trying to avoid.

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10 hours ago, J-Dizzle said:

I have a feeling if we land a top two pick we see them in the line up next year whether they should be there or not...

I like Loui on the wing with Horvat and Baer.  Can we really keep Boesser out if he comes into camp looking good (especially after showing the goal scoring prowess he did at the end of this year)? 

Keep Boeser out? He is in for sure. 4 goals in 9 games. Needs to work on strength and skating, but he already looks like he belongs.

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4 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

I read the title as "Tank-tards" so I wasn't expecting anything so reasonable with a long-term view.

Ha..that's funny - picturing goofy mullet-heads in their tank tops.

 

Apparently, the tankard is a generous beer stein that often comes with a lid. This next season's gonna drive us all to drink!

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We're going to be bottom-10 next season regardless, so may as well embrace it!

 

I'm all for taking chances with 1-year deals for guys, so they're easy to move next deadline. That includes Gudbranson, who hasn't shown that he's worth committing to long-term.

 

Pickings will be slim in the UFA market though, as there are suddenly 23 additional jobs out there.

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13 hours ago, appleboy said:

Do you think management is sitting in the back room discussing how to end up 31st.:unsure:

Maybe Tryamkin was a threat to a proper tank so they suggested he goes home for a year and maybe get a shot at the Olympics.

 

I am all in on the rebuild , call it what you want. I think they should be looking to acquire assets for any player that is not forecast to be here five years down the road.

 

Tanev ,Edler, Sutter , Sbisa , Guddy , Markstrom and LE. Maybe not all this year but over the next two seasons. Youth and speed mixed with some grit is what it takes to win now. The Black Hawks looked like us in 2012, 2013. Lets see what they will do? They have 21 mil tied up in two players who looked tired at 28 years old. Both locked up until they are 35.

Teams should never give out huge long term deals anymore. Once a player hits 28 they should be looking to move them out for young assets. Contracts should never go past 32 years old. After that do short term deals..

That's the problem with star players reaching UFA on championship or very good teams.  They end up being rewarded for previous production and signed well past what will be their prime. Kane was coming off a dream year but still managed to challenge for the lead but likely won't be able to keep it up. Bowman has done an admirable job replacing players over the years and the Toews/Kane contracts haven't had the immediate cap impact thanks to Panarin and co but CHI window is closing and in a couple years will be nailed shut with Keith aging and paying two guys 20 million to score what likely will be under one hundred points.  Will make the Sedin contracts look pretty good.

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10 hours ago, SabreFan1 said:

Actually, not 2 more years.  The tanking should be completed.  Now it's time to collect players in this draft and then asset management the best that they can.  If they believe that they can get equal or greater value for the Sedins, Edler, Tanev, etc. then they can do that now that the rebuild is beginning. 

I am understanding your view....my thought is this year and next, as I dont  see the point of trying to dig out until the end of next year...there is no real good UFA this time around and I fail to see the difference between  ending up 20th OA and 31st OA next year except we are guaranteed a much better draft pick and we have let our picks develop more.....like I said earlier 14 more months of pain...then I am on your truck with you.....hope to move a couple more vets along the way....we will see....but I don't  disagree with you plan of attack

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4 hours ago, IBatch said:

That's the problem with star players reaching UFA on championship or very good teams.  They end up being rewarded for previous production and signed well past what will be their prime. Kane was coming off a dream year but still managed to challenge for the lead but likely won't be able to keep it up. Bowman has done an admirable job replacing players over the years and the Toews/Kane contracts haven't had the immediate cap impact thanks to Panarin and co but CHI window is closing and in a couple years will be nailed shut with Keith aging and paying two guys 20 million to score what likely will be under one hundred points.  Will make the Sedin contracts look pretty good.

I will admit, at least with Chicago they have won some Cups, so if they do have a number of years where they struggle fans will be patient.

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13 hours ago, erkayloomeh said:

Once you have that young talent in place you need to have enough cap space to sign mature free agents to play with these young guys. One 28 yr old quality vet per line at least and good goaltending.  Then grow from there.  

Cap space will be important. Part of a rebuild is to allow a team to start with a clean slate. That is why many of us were frustrated with the LE signing.  Acquire picks and draft well , clear out cap space and once you have a young core you build around them.

Exactly. Not a guaranty but the best approach.

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4 hours ago, IBatch said:

That's the problem with star players reaching UFA on championship or very good teams.  They end up being rewarded for previous production and signed well past what will be their prime. Kane was coming off a dream year but still managed to challenge for the lead but likely won't be able to keep it up. Bowman has done an admirable job replacing players over the years and the Toews/Kane contracts haven't had the immediate cap impact thanks to Panarin and co but CHI window is closing and in a couple years will be nailed shut with Keith aging and paying two guys 20 million to score what likely will be under one hundred points.  Will make the Sedin contracts look pretty good.

The contracts that Gillis left behind made it difficult for Linden and the owners to go all in on a rebuild two years ago. They needed to keep the money coming in until the twins deal is over. Now they need to let these contracts expire and just slowly add to the young base that they have already brought in.

 

Horvat , Baer , Granlund , Goldobin , Virtanen , Gaunce . Boeser , Hutton , Stecher , Juolevi , Dahlen and so on...........    These players are the future and the rest should be trade bait.

They have the opportunity to move some veteran D men for draft picks and add to this list.  Tanev , Guddy, Sutter , Dorsett and Edler should be trade bait. LE can be moved once the twins deal is done.  Over the next two years we could be looking at enough young talent to build around.

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4 minutes ago, appleboy said:

The contracts that Gillis left behind made it difficult for Linden and the owners to go all in on a rebuild two years ago. They needed to keep the money coming in until the twins deal is over. Now they need to let these contracts expire and just slowly add to the young base that they have already brought in.

 

Horvat , Baer , Granlund , Goldobin , Virtanen , Gaunce . Boeser , Hutton , Stecher , Juolevi , Dahlen and so on...........    These players are the future and the rest should be trade bait.

They have the opportunity to move some veteran D men for draft picks and add to this list.  Tanev , Guddy, Sutter , Dorsett and Edler should be trade bait. LE can be moved once the twins deal is done.  Over the next two years we could be looking at enough young talent to build around.

Eriksson will not be moved until the last 2 years of his contract based on the clauses included ( Limited no trade in the last 2 years ), which will be right around the time the team could look at a serious cup run and will need cap space to resign rookies or to add a key piece.

 

Guddy is only 25, why would we trade him before we get a full and healthy season from him to see what we have? Right now we would be trading super low on him.

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1 hour ago, janisahockeynut said:

I am understanding your view....my thought is this year and next, as I dont  see the point of trying to dig out until the end of next year...there is no real good UFA this time around and I fail to see the difference between  ending up 20th OA and 31st OA next year except we are guaranteed a much better draft pick and we have let our picks develop more.....like I said earlier 14 more months of pain...then I am on your truck with you.....hope to move a couple more vets along the way....we will see....but I don't  disagree with you plan of attack

I understand what you mean now.  Calling for just one more year is a valid strategy.   I'm just concerned about the harm even that could potentially do.

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We looked like a team doomed to suffer some painful years before we even hired Torts, now we're getting that pain. Unless the young guys step up in a big way it's gonna be another rough few years.

 

That being said, I fully embrace having a rough number of years while hoping for the best. I'd rather be straight up bad as opposed to mediocre.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, R35Godz1lla said:

Eriksson will not be moved until the last 2 years of his contract based on the clauses included ( Limited no trade in the last 2 years ), which will be right around the time the team could look at a serious cup run and will need cap space to resign rookies or to add a key piece.

 

Guddy is only 25, why would we trade him before we get a full and healthy season from him to see what we have? Right now we would be trading super low on him.

I am not suggesting that any of these players are traded this offseason. Maybe Tanev.  I am saying that they should be fazed out and turned into assets over the next few years. Make sure that Guddy does not get a NTC. As the kids take over lets move the vets out.

LE has a NMC for next year then he goes to a NTC and then a modified NTC.  Most NTC's have a list and the fact that it changes from a NMC to NTC tells me that it opens up a possible trade.

We need to ice a team and that is why I would faze the vets out.  A good draft this year and next could set us up going forward. I am pleased with the list of young players that Benning has already acquired. Even though most are not his draft picks.

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5 hours ago, D-Money said:

We're going to be bottom-10 next season regardless, so may as well embrace it!

 

I'm all for taking chances with 1-year deals for guys, so they're easy to move next deadline. That includes Gudbranson, who hasn't shown that he's worth committing to long-term.

 

Pickings will be slim in the UFA market though, as there are suddenly 23 additional jobs out there.

I agree with your 'bottom ten' forecast.

 

You are likely a bit tough on Gudbranson. Tough to risk a 1 year deal on a kid who only played 30 games. SOlid season next year and you might lose him. Benning saw enough in him to make a trade so I have to assume the talent is there. I expect a 2 - 3 year bridge contract. The cost is likely to favor the Canucks. Guddy will not get a NTC so he will be moveable at a good cost if he des not work out. Losing Tryamkin changes a lot of the perspective moving forward as far as team toughness. Guddy is the only big physical player on the roster.  

 

I still hope that Tanev gets moved for a forward prospect and a pick. If the Canucks are not nervous about the size of their division competitors they had better dial into the Oilers playoffs. Kassian took Hansen into the boards last game and they were talking after the hit. I'm sure it was old times in Van.  

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22 minutes ago, appleboy said:

I am not suggesting that any of these players are traded this offseason. Maybe Tanev.  I am saying that they should be fazed out and turned into assets over the next few years. Make sure that Guddy does not get a NTC. As the kids take over lets move the vets out.

LE has a NMC for next year then he goes to a NTC and then a modified NTC.  Most NTC's have a list and the fact that it changes from a NMC to NTC tells me that it opens up a possible trade.

We need to ice a team and that is why I would faze the vets out.  A good draft this year and next could set us up going forward. I am pleased with the list of young players that Benning has already acquired. Even though most are not his draft picks.

Hey I agree, keep getting younger and try and stay in that nice 19-29 age range.

 

I think the fact that Benning has acquired as much potential as he has outside of just the draft is a reason he needs to be given a chance to actually rebuild now that Ownership seems to be onside with a couple years of being in the bottom 5 of the league.

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14 hours ago, westvandude said:

I don't get this concept that because drafting well is important, you shouldn't care about your draft position. They are two mutually exclusive factors... you want to draft well AND have the highest picks possible. Just because there are winners in lower rounds and disappointments in higher picks doesn't mean that you can dismiss the importance of high picks. You want to have great scouts who have as many options to choose from as possible.

Sure all that makes sense except you can only get high picks by being a loser. 

 

We are in this to win correct? Then you have to draft well as you aren't going to get access to the top 5 picks.

 

And sure drafting well AND drafting high is better than drafting middle of the pack... but it's an oxymoron as there's no way you have been drafting well if your drafting top 5 because you suck and your team is an embarrassment.

 

The canucks draft record is a case in point. ...

 

I agree there are times teams fail to draft correctly, and we are one of them, and it can make sense tactically to trade away core players and let your team falter and land a top 5 pick... but this is a desperation move due to poor drafting.

 

I do not buy into the concept that you can just gut your team and tank a season and your guaranteed to become a contender as you get to pick top 5 all the time. 

 

Granted there are players that turn out to be franchise players like Crosby etc etc but these players are so rare it's pointless to "try" to lose and get a top pick.

 

I believe you focus on drafting and development and build a character roster that always always plays to win.  Your fan base will grow. Your intimidation factor will affect other teams morale.

 

Look how many picks Chicago has this year... way more than anyone else... as they draft well and have assets.

 

You never play to lose.

 

But that's just me... 

 

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2 hours ago, appleboy said:

The contracts that Gillis left behind made it difficult for Linden and the owners to go all in on a rebuild two years ago. They needed to keep the money coming in until the twins deal is over. Now they need to let these contracts expire and just slowly add to the young base that they have already brought in.

 

Horvat , Baer , Granlund , Goldobin , Virtanen , Gaunce . Boeser , Hutton , Stecher , Juolevi , Dahlen and so on...........    These players are the future and the rest should be trade bait.

They have the opportunity to move some veteran D men for draft picks and add to this list.  Tanev , Guddy, Sutter , Dorsett and Edler should be trade bait. LE can be moved once the twins deal is done.  Over the next two years we could be looking at enough young talent to build around.

I certainly hope so.  One things for sure as long as Benning stays out of the UFA pool and never makes the same mistake he made with LE, there should be cap space galore to sign our future core to fair second contracts.

We be in a position of power as far as cap space goes, right up and including to the time when the new guys reach UFA status.

I wouldnt be surprised at all management works on an internal cap over the next phase to make sure they allot the cash for when we really need it to acquire the right pieces to finish the job.

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