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Gurn

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52 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

What do I win??

 

Bombardier sale of the c series seems brilliant now if this happens

Beers and wings next time in Penticton or in Airdrie if you are out here before I head west.

 

Seriously though this a good thing as it creates jobs and lets not forget this is one of the best fighters in the world.

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39 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Beers and wings next time in Penticton or in Airdrie if you are out here before I head west.

 

Seriously though this a good thing as it creates jobs and lets not forget this is one of the best fighters in the world.

I'll be in Airdrie this April looking at homes via Raj.

 

This is a HUGE boon for Canada and I cannot see any way either the Libs or Cons pass this up at all.  Lockheed and Boeing have both had their chances to create these plants and connections in canada over decades but haven't.  This would be worth a fighter jet being worth an extra say $5 million or so per unit with the economic spin offs that would be generated as it's investing in home.

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It needs to be just more than a plant.  We've seen what a stupid GM plant in Ottawa is worth.  It needs to be a major foothold and begin the grassroots of aviation excellence, manufacturing, and development in Canada.  Such that the industry will thrive for generations to come.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Canadian air task force finishes Romanian mission, personnel coming home later this month

Canada’s air task force in Romania has completed its four-month deployment with NATO and its personnel will return home later this month.

The task force was composed of approximately 135 Canadian Forces personnel and five CF-18 Hornets. The personnel were mainly from 425 Tactical Fighter Squadron, supported by personnel primarily from 2 Air Expeditionary Wing and 3 Wing Bagotville, Que.

This is Canada’s third air task force deployment to Romania in support of NATO, according to the Canadian Forces. The first was from April to August 2014 to the Romanian Air Force 71st Air Base in Campia Turzii, and from September to December 2017 to Constanta. Canada had previously sent an air task force to Lithuania as part of NATO Baltic Air Policing from September to December 2014, and to Iceland from May to June 2017.

 

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/canadian-air-task-force-finishes-romanian-mission-personnel-coming-home-later-this-month

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Canada Should Not Ignore Russia Sending Fighter Jets To Arctic: Expert

Recent Russian moves in the Arctic have renewed debate over that country's intentions and Canada's own status at the top of the world.

The newspaper Izvestia reported late last month that Russia's military will resume fighter patrols to the North Pole for the first time in 30 years. The patrols will be in addition to regular bomber flights up to the edge of U.S. and Canadian airspace.

"It's clearly sending strategic messaging," said Whitney Lackenbauer, an Arctic expert and history professor at the University of Waterloo. "This is the next step."

Russia has been beefing up both its civilian and military capabilities in its north for a decade.

 

Old Cold-War-era air bases have been rejuvenated. Foreign policy observers have counted four new Arctic brigade combat teams, 14 new operational airfields, 16 deepwater ports and 40 icebreakers with an additional 11 in development.

Bomber patrols have been steady. NORAD has reported up to 20 sightings and 19 intercepts a year.

Commercial infrastructure has kept pace as well. A vast new gas field has been opened in the Yamal Peninsula on the central Russian coast. Control and development of the Northern Sea Route — Russia's equivalent of the Northwest Passage — has been given to a central government agency. Russian news sources say cargo volume is expected to grow to 40 million tonnes in 2020 from 7.5 million tonnes in 2016.

 

Canada has little to compare.

A road has been completed to the Arctic coast at Tuktoyaktuk in the Northwest Territories and work for a port at Iqaluit in Nunavut is underway. The first Arctic patrol vessel has been launched, satellite surveillance has been enhanced and a naval refuelling station built on Baffin Island.

But most northern infrastructure desires remain unfilled.

No all-weather roads exist down the Mackenzie Valley or into the mineral-rich central N.W.T. Modern needs such as high-speed internet are still dreams in most of the North. A new icebreaker has been delayed.

Nearing the end of its term, the Liberal government has yet to table an official Arctic policy.

 

Canada needs to keep pace if only because it can't count on the current international order to hold, said John Higginbotham of the Centre for International Governance Innovation in Waterloo.

"If the globalized system fragments, we're going to get a world of blocs. The blocs will have power to close international shipping channels.

"It's a dreadful strategic mistake for Canada to give up our own sea route."

 

Arctic dominance would also give Russia a potent card to play, said Rob Huebert of the Centre for Military and Strategic Studies at the University of Calgary.

 

"It gives you presence," he said. "Whenever there's issues that happen to occur elsewhere, we've already seen the behaviour of the Russians — they start doing overflights of other countries to bring pressure."

Norway, the Baltics and the United Kingdom have all reported increased airspace violations, Huebert said.

Few expect Russian troops to come pouring over the North Pole. The country is sticking with a United Nations process for drawing borders in Arctic waters and is a productive member of the eight-nation Arctic Council.

"There's vigorous debate over whether their posture is offensive-oriented," Lackenbauer said. "The Russians insist this is purely defensive. It also offers possibilities for safe and secure shipping in the Northern Sea Route.

Canada would be mistaken to ignore the awakening bear, said Ron Wallace of the Canadian Global Affairs Institute in Calgary.

"It's important for Canadians to be aware of their Arctic and the circumpolar Arctic and what's going on in the North," he said.

Canada is unlikely to take much from Russia's command-and-control style of development, Wallace said, but there are lessons to learn. Combining civilian and military infrastructure is one of them.

"That's the kind of thinking I haven't seen here, but that's the thinking the Russians are using," he said. "They see the northern trade route as an excuse to put up military bases at the same time they're working with the Chinese to open up trade routes for the export of their resources."

That would also help fulfil federal promises to territorial governments, said Wallace.

"Somewhere in the middle there is a better policy for northern Canada."

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2019/02/10/canada-should-not-ignore-russia-sending-fighter-jets-to-arctic-expert_a_23666109/

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On 1/18/2019 at 7:57 AM, BPA said:

It needs to be just more than a plant.  We've seen what a stupid GM plant in Ottawa is worth.  It needs to be a major foothold and begin the grassroots of aviation excellence, manufacturing, and development in Canada.  Such that the industry will thrive for generations to come.

Cause of the size of our country manufacturing like that wouldnt make it viable.

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On 2/15/2019 at 10:24 PM, Violator said:

Cause of the size of our country manufacturing like that wouldnt make it viable.

And... training skilled personnel only to be sent off to another country does?

 

We've seen it with Avro Arrow. We've seen it with the space industry. We've seen it with the auto industry to some extent.

 

I swear... politicians need to have a historian background to see the trends.

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4 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

And... training skilled personnel only to be sent off to another country does?

 

We've seen it with Avro Arrow. We've seen it with the space industry. We've seen it with the auto industry to some extent.

 

I swear... politicians need to have a historian background to see the trends.

Politicans are like shareholders only thinking about short term.

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Ottawa makes its $60B frigate project official, even as rival's court challenge goes forward

A long-awaited contract to design the Canadian navy's next generation of warships — the kickoff to a $60-billion project — was formalized in Halifax today, even as a challenge of the contract process goes forward in Federal Court and critics question how completely the bids were evaluated.

All of the paperwork for the design contract was signed in Ottawa on Thursday between the Liberal government, Lockheed Martin Canada, BAE Systems, Inc. and Irving Shipbuilding, the prime contractor, CBC News has learned.

 

The event in Halifax, involving two federal ministers and Nova Scotia politicians, marked the ceremonial start of a project that's expected to produce 15 warships to replace the navy's frontline frigates over the next decade and a half.

The initial contract is worth $185 million, but will increase over time as more support work is added as the warships are constructed.

"Our government is providing the Royal Canadian Navy with the ships it needs to do its important work of protecting Canadians," Procurement Minister Carla Qualtrough said in a statement. "This procurement process for Canada's future fleet of Canadian Surface Combatants was conducted in an open, fair and transparent manner that yielded the best ship design, and design team, to meet our needs for many years to come."

The decision to award the contract to the Lockheed Martin-led team is the subject of a legal challenge by one of the other companies in the competition — Alion Science and Technology Corp. — and its subsidiary Alion Canada.

A third team, led by the Spanish company Navantia, also submitted a bid but has not challenged the decision.

Winning contract was only one screened for cost: sources

Sources within government and the defence industry said Thursday the federal officials running the competition who evaluated the bids did not look at the financial portion of the Alion and Navantia bids.

The competition was broken into multiple phases, with teams of federal officials evaluating different aspects of the complex pitches — screening them to ensure they met the navy's requirements and the federal government's demand for participation by Canadian industry.

The very last aspect to be considered, once the bids passed and were deemed compliant in those early stages, was cost and pricing.

The federal government, according to sources, said the only bid to be screened for cost was the Lockheed-Martin proposal, which pitched the British Type 26 design, also known as the Global Combat Ship.

 

It was the only bid deemed compliant, according to sources with knowledge of the file.

That has raised questions within the defence industry and among analysts, given the fact that both the Alion and Navantia designs involve warships that are already in service with other nations.

The Type 26 is just coming into production in Britain — a fact that figures prominently in the Federal Court case launched last fall by Alion.

In court filings, Alion argues that the winning bid was "incapable of meeting three critical mandatory requirements" of the design tender, including one requirement regarding speed.

The company said its proposal, the Dutch-designed De Zeven Provinciën Air Defence and Command (LCF) frigate, was the best solution for the Canadian navy.

Critics of the federal process have long claimed that the fix was in for the Lockheed-Martin Canada bid and that the design tender was tilted in order to ensure the company remained in the competition.

A 'hypothetical' price tag

Neither losing bidder has been told precisely what was wrong with their bids, but they are slated to be briefed now that the contract has been signed, said defence industry sources.

Defence analyst Dave Perry said the process was deliberately structured so that the navy got the ship it needed, not the cheapest one.

He also said that, at this point, the price tag is "still a hypothetical cost" because the federal government and the navy have yet to spell out in precise terms the electronics and weapons that will be included in the warships.

"There's a process of requirement reconciliation still to happen, with Irving and the Government of Canada going in and taking a hard look at what kind of design" they have got and how it can be modified to meet the navy's needs, he said.

An official in Qualtrough's office would not comment on the bidding results, but defended the process, saying it was a "complex and rigorous procurement" that included extensive consultations with the bidders and opportunities for them to correct deficiencies.

The selection was also overseen by a fairness monitor, the official added.

 

It was the only bid deemed compliant, according to sources with knowledge of the file.

That has raised questions within the defence industry and among analysts, given the fact that both the Alion and Navantia designs involve warships that are already in service with other nations.

The Type 26 is just coming into production in Britain — a fact that figures prominently in the Federal Court case launched last fall by Alion.

In court filings, Alion argues that the winning bid was "incapable of meeting three critical mandatory requirements" of the design tender, including one requirement regarding speed.

The company said its proposal, the Dutch-designed De Zeven Provinciën Air Defence and Command (LCF) frigate, was the best solution for the Canadian navy.

Critics of the federal process have long claimed that the fix was in for the Lockheed-Martin Canada bid and that the design tender was tilted in order to ensure the company remained in the competition.

 

A 'hypothetical' price tag

Neither losing bidder has been told precisely what was wrong with their bids, but they are slated to be briefed now that the contract has been signed, said defence industry sources.

Defence analyst Dave Perry said the process was deliberately structured so that the navy got the ship it needed, not the cheapest one.

He also said that, at this point, the price tag is "still a hypothetical cost" because the federal government and the navy have yet to spell out in precise terms the electronics and weapons that will be included in the warships.

"There's a process of requirement reconciliation still to happen, with Irving and the Government of Canada going in and taking a hard look at what kind of design" they have got and how it can be modified to meet the navy's needs, he said.

An official in Qualtrough's office would not comment on the bidding results, but defended the process, saying it was a "complex and rigorous procurement" that included extensive consultations with the bidders and opportunities for them to correct deficiencies.

The selection was also overseen by a fairness monitor, the official added.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/frigate-lockheed-martin-federal-court-1.5010673

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  • 1 year later...
On 1/4/2019 at 10:54 AM, aeromotacanucks said:

People always talk about the Avro program and seemed to be a great fighter 

 

Wondering WHY it was scrapped 

The Arrow was too specialized for a small air force. It was only good at one thing(which it was very good at): high-speed, high-altitude interceptions of strategic bombers and spy planes. So if it entered service, Canada would need a seperate fighter for engaging other fighters or ground attack. 

 

By the time of the project cancellation the F4 phanton was nearing completion. The F4 was 1/3 the cost, far better at fighting other fighters, capable of ground attack, and a bit worse at interceptions. 

Trouble is, the only edge the Arrow had was becoming less and less relevant. By 1958, nuclear attack/deterrant doctine was already shifting away from strategic bombers towards ICBMs.

 

What we were left with was an extremely expensive dedicated interceptor (at a time when the interceptor role was already becoming obsolete), competing against a well rounded, cheap F4 on the export market. 

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5 hours ago, MattJVD said:

The Arrow was too specialized for a small air force. It was only good at one thing(which it was very good at): high-speed, high-altitude interceptions of strategic bombers and spy planes. So if it entered service, Canada would need a seperate fighter for engaging other fighters or ground attack. 

 

By the time of the project cancellation the F4 phanton was nearing completion. The F4 was 1/3 the cost, far better at fighting other fighters, capable of ground attack, and a bit worse at interceptions. 

Trouble is, the only edge the Arrow had was becoming less and less relevant. By 1958, nuclear attack/deterrant doctine was already shifting away from strategic bombers towards ICBMs.

 

What we were left with was an extremely expensive dedicated interceptor (at a time when the interceptor role was already becoming obsolete), competing against a well rounded, cheap F4 on the export market. 

Were the Americans ever going to buy a military airplane from a foreign country? 

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  • 7 months later...

Finally found this thread again.

Some pics and updates on the new arctic off shore patrol ships

now 2 in the water and another getting close

Here is a pic of HMCS Harry DeWolfe exercising her forward gun.

DEWOLFEFORWARDGUN.thumb.png.de67fb3c6876dd232103e12d4b2d0e47.png

GUNSHELLS.png

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Should mention:

 

The Canadian Snowbirds are up at Comox airbase till may 26th.

Doing flight traing, weather permitting.

Radio was saying usually fly at 9:30 and 1;30.

 

Don't gather to watch, but you can keep an eye open if you are in the Comox Valley area.

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On 5/9/2021 at 8:29 AM, gurn said:

Shipbuilding and seas trails are going very well, considering how covid has messed almost everything up.

Pretty sure that defense contracts were deemed essential.  So don't think there was any stoppages.  Maybe some delay in the supply chain but that's about it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

 Keel metal cut  for Artic Off Shore Patrol  Ship number 5    "HMCS Frédérick Rolette".

 Here is "HMCS Harry Dewolfe" completing helicopter landing trials:

HARRYHELI.thumb.png.2b8df35ad8727e3be29435019f8914f3.png

HARRYHELIONDECK.png

Edited by gurn
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