bloodycanuckleheads Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Vegas is going to be a lot better than anyone realizes. Let's just take a look back at what happened last expansion draft and what we can expect this time... In 2000, CBJ and the Wild entered the league. In that expansion draft, teams were allowed to protect either: one goaltender, five defensemen, and nine forwards OR two goaltenders, three defensemen, and seven forwards. With two expansion teams fighting for players, they were choosing either the 15th or 16th best player from each team (if that team chose the 1st option) or the 13th or 14th best player (if the team chose the second). Today, the rules are different. They favor the expansion team much more than they did in the past (what a surprise, the big-market city gets a MUCH better initial-team than the smaller market cities). It's either: seven forwards, three defencemen and one goaltender OR eight skaters and one goaltender. And, there's no 2nd expansion team competing for picks. Oh yeah, and the last expansion teams only got to choose from 26 other teams. This year, it'll be 30. So, Vegas wins again. Vegas will be choosing the 12th best player from each team - or the 10th best. Having a team full of 10's and 12's is A HELL OF A LOT better than a smaller team full of 15 and 16's like the Wild and Columbus got! So, how did those teams do? Did the expansion draft screw those teams for years? Yes, kind of. But, nowhere near as bad as you'd expect. For instance, NEITHER TEAM was in the bottom-5 their first season! In their history, the Wild have only had 3 seasons where they lost more games than they won (ignoring OTL's), and one of those was 36:35. The horrible expansion rules were still good enough for them to assemble a decent team right off the bat. Today's rules are far, far better (for the expansion club). Now, here's the disgusting part for Canucks fans... Vegas will, almost surely, have a considerably better team than us! Here are a couple of the latest mock drafts: http://www.fiveforhowling.com/2017/6/15/15778402/vegas-golden-knights-mock-expansion-draft-five-for-howling-take https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/sports/nhl-expansion-mock-draft-vegas-golden-knights/ So, let's just compare our roster to what Vegas will have... GOALTENDER: Canucks: 2.63 and 0.910 - Markstrom Unknown Backup or Starter Vegas: 2.56 and 0.924 - Fleury 2.05 and 0.926 - Grubauer 2.27 and 0.922 - Raanta Uh oh... DEFENSE: Canucks: 21pts - Edler 10 - Tanev 24 - Stecher 19 - Hutton 6 - Gudbranson -------------- 13 - Sbisa (Gone) 9 - Tryamkin (Gone) Vegas: 25pts - de Haan 24 - Vatanen (if they don't take Silfverberg) 18 - Del Zotto 13 - Scandella 16 - van Riemsdyk 13 - Sbisa 13 - Miller 7 - Marincin 0 - Reinhart (4th overall) and lots of other choices! Uh oh!... FORWARDS: Canucks: 51pts - Sedin 44 - Sedin 24 - Eriksson 52 - Horvat 35 - Baertschi 5 - Boeser 32 - Granlund 34 - Sutter 8 - Megna 9 - Skille 8 - Chaput 5 - Gaunce 3 - Goldobin Unknown signings/trades/pickups to fill out the roster ------------ 20 - Burrows (Gone) 13 - Hansen (Gone) Vegas: 49pts - Silfverberg 43 - Kane 40 - Grabner (if they don't take Raanta) 40 - Stempniak 31 - Jarnkrok 25 - Karlsson 23 - Andrighetto 28 - Namestnikov 26 - Bennett 36 - Brown 29 - Lowry 26 - Boedker 20 - Burrows 16 - Kuhnhackl 14 - Glendening 30 - Strome (if they don't take de Haan) 15 - Brodziak 17 - McGinn And, we haven't even gotten to all the UFA's they can pick up, all the deals they can make to exempt certain players, and all the trades they can make with all their new assets. Of course, we haven't gotten into salary-cap and spending issues and there will be a lot of wheeling and dealing over the next week, so who knows who is actually going to be exposed and selected. But, still... What an utter load of crap! Before they even play their first game, Vegas is almost surely going to have a team that's CONSIDERABLY better than ours! Unless they screw-up unimagineably, their goaltending will be an order-of-magnitude better than us (even if we pick up a great goalie this summer or re-sign Miller). Their forwards don't have the top-end talent (of course, neither does our team), but as a group, they are considerably better. And, their defense is arguably similar, if not better. Oh, and notice that I only took one player per team. I didn't cherry-pick and list a bunch of players Vegas couldn't possibly assemble all together. And, you could probably assemble a much better team than I did. I was just picking players from each team off the top of my head (to show you guys how unbelievably disgusting this is going to be). Look at the team Vegas can assemble compared to the Canucks - it's utterly ridiculous! There's no way in hell they should be that much better than us before they've even played their first game. Not that they're going to be good, but they aren't going to be fighting us for top spot in the 2018 draft lottery either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 I do agree they'll be better than most people think but they won't be better than us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyoung Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 They will hold their own in year one. But keep in mind, they will not have any depth, creating that depth will take a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 I'm not sure if I can agree that they would be CONSIDERABLY better than the Canucks, but they would definitely be competitive. Don't forget it'll also take time for the Vegas team to gel and build chemistry, and also to learn new systems under a new coach. We're talking a bunch of players from all over the place being put together and expected to compete in the top league in the world. It'll take time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goalie13 Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 While they may be reasonably competitive out of the gate, one thing they will lack is depth in their prospect pool. That will take years to build up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanuckGAME Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Fine by me. We're going to get Dahlin or Schechnikov next draft anyway and then we will rise like the leafs and Oilers. All it takes is one franchise quality player and a good deep supporting cast and the ship changes course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vintage Canuck- Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 There is good chance that they may finish higher than us next year. But in 3-4 years, I think we will be the better team after our current prospects get a taste of the NHL and continue their development into becoming regular NHL players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 good, better chances for us for picking Rasmus Dahlin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 You're right, that is a whole lot of speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanuckGAME Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 1 minute ago, S'all Good Man said: good, better chances for us for picking Rasmus Dahlin. I was going to say this too but unfortunately it doesn't give us a better chance as the Vegas knights are guaranteed a lottery pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 1 minute ago, CanuckGAME said: I was going to say this too but unfortunately it doesn't give us a better chance as the Vegas knights are guaranteed a lottery pick. are they next year as well? didn't know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tre Mac Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 I think a lot of us realise that yes, they will finish higher than us next season. However they don't have the next Mike Bossy(Boeser) or the next Patrick Roy(Demko) waiting in the wings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 We've had this "on paper" discussion before....it doesn't always translate to guaranteed success. So much factors in: how teams bond, leadership, work ethic, overall team health, goaltending (is huge...and it's often a matter of hot/cold streaks that take a team to the end or see a team falter). Projections are pointless to me. May as well pack up and not bother is what I hear. But I ain't no quitter and I don't think my team is either. I hope LV IS competitive...I love hockey, enjoy entertaining games. But I'm not willing to pack it in with my team or do a six year old's version of "I'm better than you are" thing. I guess we'll have to see as the season plays out...which is the whole point of things? Leaving this for the sake of discussion but not sure it is Canucks' talk..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedinery33 Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 14 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said: are they next year as well? didn't know that. First 3 seasons they are awarded the odds of finishing 3rd last Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Just now, Sedinery33 said: First 3 seasons they are awarded the odds of finishing 3rd last but.... we're supposed to be the ones tanking.... nice for Bettman to build in a guaranteed tank no matter what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
combover Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 It would be hard for them to put together a worse team than Vancouver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hectic Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 50 minutes ago, bloodycanuckleheads said: Vegas is going to be a lot better than anyone realizes. Let's just take a look back at what happened last expansion draft and what we can expect this time... In 2000, CBJ and the Wild entered the league. In that expansion draft, teams were allowed to protect either: one goaltender, five defensemen, and nine forwards OR two goaltenders, three defensemen, and seven forwards. With two expansion teams fighting for players, they were choosing either the 15th or 16th best player from each team (if that team chose the 1st option) or the 13th or 14th best player (if the team chose the second). Today, the rules are different. They favor the expansion team much more than they did in the past (what a surprise, the big-market city gets a MUCH better initial-team than the smaller market cities). It's either: seven forwards, three defencemen and one goaltender OR eight skaters and one goaltender. And, there's no 2nd expansion team competing for picks. Oh yeah, and the last expansion teams only got to choose from 26 other teams. This year, it'll be 30. So, Vegas wins again. Vegas will be choosing the 12th best player from each team - or the 10th best. Having a team full of 10's and 12's is A HELL OF A LOT better than a smaller team full of 15 and 16's like the Wild and Columbus got! So, how did those teams do? Did the expansion draft screw those teams for years? Yes, kind of. But, nowhere near as bad as you'd expect. For instance, NEITHER TEAM was in the bottom-5 their first season! In their history, the Wild have only had 3 seasons where they lost more games than they won (ignoring OTL's), and one of those was 36:35. The horrible expansion rules were still good enough for them to assemble a decent team right off the bat. Today's rules are far, far better (for the expansion club). Now, here's the disgusting part for Canucks fans... Vegas will, almost surely, have a considerably better team than us! Here are a couple of the latest mock drafts: http://www.fiveforhowling.com/2017/6/15/15778402/vegas-golden-knights-mock-expansion-draft-five-for-howling-take https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/sports/nhl-expansion-mock-draft-vegas-golden-knights/ So, let's just compare our roster to what Vegas will have... GOALTENDER: Canucks: 2.63 and 0.910 - Markstrom Unknown Backup or Starter Vegas: 2.56 and 0.924 - Fleury 2.05 and 0.926 - Grubauer 2.27 and 0.922 - Raanta Uh oh... DEFENSE: Canucks: 21pts - Edler 10 - Tanev 24 - Stecher 19 - Hutton 6 - Gudbranson -------------- 13 - Sbisa (Gone) 9 - Tryamkin (Gone) Vegas: 25pts - de Haan 24 - Vatanen (if they don't take Silfverberg) 18 - Del Zotto 13 - Scandella 16 - van Riemsdyk 13 - Sbisa 13 - Miller 7 - Marincin 0 - Reinhart (4th overall) and lots of other choices! Uh oh!... FORWARDS: Canucks: 51pts - Sedin 44 - Sedin 24 - Eriksson 52 - Horvat 35 - Baertschi 5 - Boeser 32 - Granlund 34 - Sutter 8 - Megna 9 - Skille 8 - Chaput 5 - Gaunce 3 - Goldobin Unknown signings/trades/pickups to fill out the roster ------------ 20 - Burrows (Gone) 13 - Hansen (Gone) Vegas: 49pts - Silfverberg 43 - Kane 40 - Grabner (if they don't take Raanta) 40 - Stempniak 31 - Jarnkrok 25 - Karlsson 23 - Andrighetto 28 - Namestnikov 26 - Bennett 36 - Brown 29 - Lowry 26 - Boedker 20 - Burrows 16 - Kuhnhackl 14 - Glendening 30 - Strome (if they don't take de Haan) 15 - Brodziak 17 - McGinn And, we haven't even gotten to all the UFA's they can pick up, all the deals they can make to exempt certain players, and all the trades they can make with all their new assets. Of course, we haven't gotten into salary-cap and spending issues and there will be a lot of wheeling and dealing over the next week, so who knows who is actually going to be exposed and selected. But, still... What an utter load of crap! Before they even play their first game, Vegas is almost surely going to have a team that's CONSIDERABLY better than ours! Unless they screw-up unimagineably, their goaltending will be an order-of-magnitude better than us (even if we pick up a great goalie this summer or re-sign Miller). Their forwards don't have the top-end talent (of course, neither does our team), but as a group, they are considerably better. And, their defense is arguably similar, if not better. Oh, and notice that I only took one player per team. I didn't cherry-pick and list a bunch of players Vegas couldn't possibly assemble all together. And, you could probably assemble a much better team than I did. I was just picking players from each team off the top of my head (to show you guys how unbelievably disgusting this is going to be). Look at the team Vegas can assemble compared to the Canucks - it's utterly ridiculous! There's no way in hell they should be that much better than us before they've even played their first game. Not that they're going to be good, but they aren't going to be fighting us for top spot in the 2018 draft lottery either! +1 buddy that was a solid read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbdoubleu Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 There is something to be said about being a team, and that a team is more than the sum of its parts on paper. They may have a better roster on paper than us, than a lot of teams it could be argued, but to then believe that will make them a successful team is speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolboarder Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 You have to keep in mind that LV must select all 30 players at 73 million cap, not the usual 23 players roster at 73 million at the expansion draft according to the rules. So that means they must select average 2.43 million per players for 30 players at the expansion draft, meaning, they may only afford a few 5+ million and their average would be a lot lower at under 2 million to balance it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldoescobar Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 They will be better than the Canucks as a lot of the players they pick up will be better than the AHL garbage the nucks have had to throw out there. That said, as others have pointed out they wont have a lot of depth for a few years and while better than Vancouver it wont be by much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.