Former players suing WHL, OHL, and QMJHL

[Stelar]

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

These players play for a team, a team is in fact a defacto company.  The company then sells their names and their efforts to make money.  These kids are therefore employees of said company.

 

As such should in fact be subject to the same wage allowances as any employee in the country.  Period

So wrong dude.  Why not go back to your previous employer and ask for extra money because what you received wasn't enough?

[Stelar]

55 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

With the amount of money the NCAA makes, the fact that their players don't get paid is horse****. Do you know who the highest paid public employee in the US is?

NCAA basketball and football. Anything else NCAA makes no money.  None.  NCAA hockey makes nothing 

[gerry35]

1 hour ago, Stelar said:

Not surprised it's the NDP leading this. 

My thoughts exactly, it is delusional at best......

[JAVA-1]

 This class action law suit affects any hockey player in any league 16 years of age and older playing for a team that has a owner (not rec hockey). Yes there may be a few teams that actually make a tidy profit and some that barely make a profit but most don't. Yes teams get the proceeds from gate revenue, merchandise, concessions and what ever else they possibly can find to generate revenue but they also have costs that add up as well and not just your basic employee costs. Ask yourself this.....who is paying for the bus (fuel and maintenance), who is paying for the hotels and food on road trips, who is paying for billets, who is paying for all the sticks, laces, etc.? In Kelowna for sure and my guess is all of the CHL, who is paying for the college education that is given to players who play for said teams. I'm most likely missing a few other expenses but you hopefully get my point. If these individuals win this the only way teams will survive is by making the players pay for all these things (or most) and do you think minimum wage will cover this? Or perhaps the parents will pay (some might). Now think this out people, do you want our game for the elite only? Or perhaps no hockey at all as the players might have to go south to play (probably not enough teams for them to play on). Having a hockey team in your city is a bonus that most cities wish they had, it benefits the community as well. Hockey is also a business (not a charity) and the owners, who put up the money are entitled to make a profit if they can. So please before you go off on these poor kids and greedy owners consider some of these facts and also what this potentially could do to OUR game.

[Stelar]

19 minutes ago, JAVA-1 said:

 This class action law suit affects any hockey player in any league 16 years of age and older playing for a team that has a owner (not rec hockey). Yes there may be a few teams that actually make a tidy profit and some that barely make a profit but most don't. Yes teams get the proceeds from gate revenue, merchandise, concessions and what ever else they possibly can find to generate revenue but they also have costs that add up as well and not just your basic employee costs. Ask yourself this.....who is paying for the bus (fuel and maintenance), who is paying for the hotels and food on road trips, who is paying for billets, who is paying for all the sticks, laces, etc.? In Kelowna for sure and my guess is all of the CHL, who is paying for the college education that is given to players who play for said teams. I'm most likely missing a few other expenses but you hopefully get my point. If these individuals win this the only way teams will survive is by making the players pay for all these things (or most) and do you think minimum wage will cover this? Or perhaps the parents will pay (some might). Now think this out people, do you want our game for the elite only? Or perhaps no hockey at all as the players might have to go south to play (probably not enough teams for them to play on). Having a hockey team in your city is a bonus that most cities wish they had, it benefits the community as well. Hockey is also a business (not a charity) and the owners, who put up the money are entitled to make a profit if they can. So please before you go off on these poor kids and greedy owners consider some of these facts and also what this potentially could do to OUR game.

Exactly, like the owners are getting rich.  If this flys then I say the leagues will pack it in.  

[Tre Mac]

11 hours ago, Stelar said:

 

No one forces them to play in the league. They knew the rules going in. To come back after the fact is shameful. Embarrassing if you ask me. 

Agreed

[Tre Mac]

10 hours ago, HerrDrFunk said:

With the amount of money the NCAA makes, the fact that their players don't get paid is horse****.

Not entirely true, they get a tuition to learn whatever they want.  It's just few take advantage of that opportunity, they leave college early in hopes of a professional career and a shot of millions. 

[D-Money]

The thing I wonder about is the developmental aspect of it. For instance, are practices "work"? Or are they "education", that the players could essentially have to pay for?

 

Retroactively, it would be hard to claim they were education, as it would have been mandatory. But going forward, if CHL practices were not mandatory, they may be able to creatively recoup some of the salary dollars. They could even set up a kind of marking system similar to schools, where missed "classes" led to deducted marks, and a "failing grade" led to removal from the team... ...basically another way of saying it's mandatory, even though you are paying for the privilege.

[Warhippy]

15 hours ago, Stelar said:

So wrong dude.  Why not go back to your previous employer and ask for extra money because what you received wasn't enough?

There i nothing wrong with what I said.

I suggest you look at canadian labour laws at both provincial and federal levels.  These kids are, in fact.  Employees.

 

There is nothing factually wrong or incorrect about that statement; as employees they are in fact subject to labour laws and codes in the country of canada and the provinces there in.

 

Don't like it, go back and ask your MP for extra laws because the ones we have you don't like

[Salmonberries]

It's high time these kids started to see at least minimum wage. And if some teams in the watered down WHL don't survive, then even better imo. League is falling behind competitively.

[goalie13]

8 hours ago, Warhippy said:

There i nothing wrong with what I said.

I suggest you look at canadian labour laws at both provincial and federal levels.  These kids are, in fact.  Employees.

 

There is nothing factually wrong or incorrect about that statement; as employees they are in fact subject to labour laws and codes in the country of canada and the provinces there in.

 

Don't like it, go back and ask your MP for extra laws because the ones we have you don't like

I hear what you are saying.  Do you feel the same laws should apply to the Penticton Vees and the rest of the BCHL?

[Jägermeister]

Full on stupid.  It's their choice to play in the CHL to try to further their hockey career to the professional level.  They get a nice little reward in the form of post-secondary support as well.

This is like me going back to the employer I volunteered with in order to get the experience I needed for my current job, and demanding they pay me for my service.

[Salmonberries]

1 hour ago, goalie13 said:

I hear what you are saying.  Do you feel the same laws should apply to the Penticton Vees and the rest of the BCHL?

I believe accepting payment of any kind would render those players  ineligible for NCAA scholarships which is the entire premise of the league. It is an amateur league while the WHL is considered a professional league. Play one game in the WHL and you're a professional in the eyes of the NCAA. And if you're already a pro - you might as well get paid.

[goalie13]

8 hours ago, Salmonberries said:

I believe accepting payment of any kind would render those players  ineligible for NCAA scholarships which is the entire premise of the league. It is an amateur league while the WHL is considered a professional league. Play one game in the WHL and you're a professional in the eyes of the NCAA. And if you're already a pro - you might as well get paid.

It's only considered a professional league by NCAA rules.

 

In reality, they are the same age group, doing the same thing, for teams that both charge admission.  If the courts rule that junior hockey players must be paid, would that not extend to all junior hockey?

[Ghostsof1915]

47 minutes ago, goalie13 said:

It's only considered a professional league by NCAA rules.

 

In reality, they are the same age group, doing the same thing, for teams that both charge admission.  If the courts rule that junior hockey players must be paid, would that not extend to all junior hockey?

What about high school football, basketball? What about Junior A like the BCHL? A large number of players in the BCHL go on to college. So if this gets accepted at junior A level too, does that kill any hopes of College Scholarship? 

 

Do interns get paid? Do community volunteers? How about amateur theatre productions?  They charge admission. Should drama students get paid?  The CHL isn't like the NCAA which makes gobs of money AND gets subsidies. 

 

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

 

[Russ]

On 6/16/2017 at 6:05 AM, JAVA-1 said:

 This class action law suit affects any hockey player in any league 16 years of age and older playing for a team that has a owner (not rec hockey). Yes there may be a few teams that actually make a tidy profit and some that barely make a profit but most don't. Yes teams get the proceeds from gate revenue, merchandise, concessions and what ever else they possibly can find to generate revenue but they also have costs that add up as well and not just your basic employee costs. Ask yourself this.....who is paying for the bus (fuel and maintenance), who is paying for the hotels and food on road trips, who is paying for billets, who is paying for all the sticks, laces, etc.? In Kelowna for sure and my guess is all of the CHL, who is paying for the college education that is given to players who play for said teams. I'm most likely missing a few other expenses but you hopefully get my point. If these individuals win this the only way teams will survive is by making the players pay for all these things (or most) and do you think minimum wage will cover this? Or perhaps the parents will pay (some might). Now think this out people, do you want our game for the elite only? Or perhaps no hockey at all as the players might have to go south to play (probably not enough teams for them to play on). Having a hockey team in your city is a bonus that most cities wish they had, it benefits the community as well. Hockey is also a business (not a charity) and the owners, who put up the money are entitled to make a profit if they can. So please before you go off on these poor kids and greedy owners consider some of these facts and also what this potentially could do to OUR game.

And this is the thing, fine pay them minimum wage but make them buy their own sticks (what are decent sticks going for now?  $200 a piece?), if they break one stick a week that takes away half their weekly pay so that they can buy and keep playing.  Make them pay their own rentals for places, their own fuel and transport to make it to practice/games, their own meals, etc.  Guess what that will cost more than them making minimum wage.  I have played sports and payed my own fees, my own gear, transport, etc ever since I was 16, nothing quite like the WHL but its expensive and there was no free college tuition out of my games, no possible millions, and I did have the risk of blowing out knees etc where work would be next to impossible.  

 

Hell the Giants moved to Langley because they were having trouble making a profit and paying for the arena, now if you try and throw minimum wage onto that I don't now if they will survive and I bet there are dozens of other teams that would be lost where these kids would no longer get the benefit to play hockey and try for professional or even college. Fewer teams means fewer opportunities. 

[189lb enforcers?]

On 2017-06-15 at 7:41 PM, Stelar said:

Players play in the juniors for a couple of reasons.  It's either a ticket to the NHL/Minors for those who are good enough, a chance to get schooling paid for or to keep playing hockey at a competitive level.

 

No one forces them to play in the league. They knew the rules going in. To come back after the fact is shameful. Embarrassing if you ask me. 

 

Does anyone one think most of these teams have the money to pay the players? 3/4 of the teams would fold. 

Stellar 

[Alflives]

On 2017-06-15 at 6:24 PM, Where's Wellwood said:

I wasn't aware they were paid at all. I was under the assumption that junior hockey player was not a profession with any salary but a means to get noticed and get drafted. Like how we don't get paid to go to school, we pay to go to school.

For US collegiate purposes CHL players are disqualified from participating, as they are considered professionals.  (I think?)

[Baer.]

I don't see how it is the league's fault you were bad at hockey and never decided to get an education. so now you're broke and trying to put the blame on other people. What a maroon.

[Rob_Zepp]

People realize that most junior hockey teams actually make zero if not negative "profit" most seasons.  Some certainly make money and always will but many do not.   Further, if these players were not in CHL they would be in university or trade school or similar where they don't get "paid" though they can earn scholarships (as can some CHL players).   If this ruling went through for CHL, then BCHL and others would need to follow and the revenue model just won't work.

 

I played in CHL.  I had a great time and never felt "abused".  It was an honour to be in the CHL and I chose it over going to university or similar as it was hockey that I wanted to pursue.  I had no expectation of being paid just as elite baseball kids prior to bring drafted don't get paid and so forth.  

 

For every London Knights franchise there is a one that breaks even at best.   This could really limit number of teams for kids to play on if it goes through.