Phat Fingers Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 50 minutes ago, CBH1926 said: Zimmerman's mother is Peruvian with some black heritage, so to call him "scared white man" is a pretty big stretch. Also the victim was a possible suspect, so by him saying I have CCP, how is the cop supposed to know he is not lying? Maybe he is saying that so the cop will drop his guard down, he only has few seconds to decide if this guy is reaching for license or a gun to kill him. Last cop that was shot and killed in line of duty in Vancouver was 1989, so yeah I would say that the cops are more relaxed in Canada. As far as your point that cops are not targeted often in the U.S. you should check those facts. Next time when you go to visit your cousin, make a stop in Garfield park area on west side of Chicago. Shooting rate is close to 1000 per 100 000, it's like a war zone down there. My suggestion is for you to ride around the area in a police car and let me know how that goes. Also St. Louis, New Orleans, Detroit etc. have some areas where you can ride with police. This poor guy did not deserve to die, to me the whole thing was a tragic accident, and I wish I didn't happen. But this racist anti cop narrative that has been pushed through by mostly clueless people has led to deaths as well. Ambush in Dallas, execution of two officers in New York etc. A few things in response, the last officers killed in the line of duty in was the four killed in Moncton in 2012 by a guy set on killing cops, before that in the early 2000's 4 more officers were gunned down in Mayrthorpe Alberta. Most Officers in Law enforcement are exemplar professionals and I am not besmirching their commitment and devotion to serve and protect the citizens of their communities. We are talking about two types of officers, those that made an honest but deadly mistake and killed someone without cause... Criminal Negligence or manslaughter, and those that are just reckless and are too dangerous to be on the streets. Zimmerman was half Hispanic, sure, but he is also half white, but all scared. He stalked a murdered a 15 year old kid walking home from the 7-11. The man who was left deliberately cuffed behind his back and deliberately driven around Baltimore in a reckless manor resulting in his death, that is a crime, or should be. They faced no jail time and still have their jobs. How do you defend that? The he stats on officer shootings in the US have dropped, but no where do I imply that the job is a cake walk without risk and danger. The issue that seems to lead to most of the shootings of un armed and law abiding mainly black men comes from a police force that acts without thinking, trained to shoot before knowing the situation. The stats bear this out and to not think that race plays a role in this equation is naive. Take the kid (12 years old) playing on a play ground with a toy gun... He was shot 12 seconds after the police entered the scene. The footage shows the two officers driving rapidly onto the playground, opening their doors and opening fire. That fast. One of the officers was reportedly fired from his previous job for violent behaviour and had talked openingly about wanting to shoot someone. Had those officers taken anytime in assessing the situation prior to entering the scene from a distance, the 12 year old lives. They made a huge tactical error, shot an innocent child and walked away. Adrenalin leads to bad decision making, bias leads to mistakes and poor outcomes, police rushing around placing themselves into situations where they react and open fire without cause, but due to a mistake in their assessment of the situation should not be exonrerated. They &^@#ed up and a person died directly from their mistake. That's criminal negligence or manslaughter, same goes for me in my job. I mis read or mis diagnos a patient and kill them as direct result of my actions... I get charged and will most definitely loose my job and career. I could very likely end up in jail, so would any RCMP officer or Police officer in Canada. What has become legal or better yet, illegal but ignored in the US when it comes to law enforcement is hurting everyone in the US. That the DA's will break the rules to exonerate pretty much any officers actions have lead to what seems to be an open season by Police against the most maligned and vulnerable citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 5 hours ago, Lancaster said: Um...... I'm not white, lol. I just follow what Chris Rock says.... Reveal hidden contents *may contain some coarse language. I will remove the qualification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBH1926 Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said: A few things in response, the last officers killed in the line of duty in was the four killed in Moncton in 2012 by a guy set on killing cops, before that in the early 2000's 4 more officers were gunned down in Mayrthorpe Alberta. Most Officers in Law enforcement are exemplar professionals and I am not besmirching their commitment and devotion to serve and protect the citizens of their communities. We are talking about two types of officers, those that made an honest but deadly mistake and killed someone without cause... Criminal Negligence or manslaughter, and those that are just reckless and are too dangerous to be on the streets. Zimmerman was half Hispanic, sure, but he is also half white, but all scared. He stalked a murdered a 15 year old kid walking home from the 7-11. The man who was left deliberately cuffed behind his back and deliberately driven around Baltimore in a reckless manor resulting in his death, that is a crime, or should be. They faced no jail time and still have their jobs. How do you defend that? The he stats on officer shootings in the US have dropped, but no where do I imply that the job is a cake walk without risk and danger. The issue that seems to lead to most of the shootings of un armed and law abiding mainly black men comes from a police force that acts without thinking, trained to shoot before knowing the situation. The stats bear this out and to not think that race plays a role in this equation is naive. Take the kid (12 years old) playing on a play ground with a toy gun... He was shot 12 seconds after the police entered the scene. The footage shows the two officers driving rapidly onto the playground, opening their doors and opening fire. That fast. One of the officers was reportedly fired from his previous job for violent behaviour and had talked openingly about wanting to shoot someone. Had those officers taken anytime in assessing the situation prior to entering the scene from a distance, the 12 year old lives. They made a huge tactical error, shot an innocent child and walked away. Adrenalin leads to bad decision making, bias leads to mistakes and poor outcomes, police rushing around placing themselves into situations where they react and open fire without cause, but due to a mistake in their assessment of the situation should not be exonrerated. They &^@#ed up and a person died directly from their mistake. That's criminal negligence or manslaughter, same goes for me in my job. I mis read or mis diagnos a patient and kill them as direct result of my actions... I get charged and will most definitely loose my job and career. I could very likely end up in jail, so would any RCMP officer or Police officer in Canada. What has become legal or better yet, illegal but ignored in the US when it comes to law enforcement is hurting everyone in the US. That the DA's will break the rules to exonerate pretty much any officers actions have lead to what seems to be an open season by Police against the most maligned and vulnerable citizens. Of course race matter when it comes to dealing with people, everyone knows that. As far as Rice goes, two cops were initially told that a black male is pointing a gun in the park. They were not informed that he was a juvenile or that the gun was most likely fake. Once they pulled in, he allegedly reached in his waistband to grab the gun. Now if those cope made that story up they should be in jail. If not, once someone reaches to grab a gun they usually shoot. Hindsight is 20/20, no way for them to tell if the gun is real or not, especially if the orange tip is missing. Again tragic situation but the question is was this a mistake or was it done maliciously. As far as your job goes, patients die under doctor's or EMT care all the time. To prove malice or intent takes a long time. Did doctor misread an MRI by mistake or did he get drunk and operated on someone and killed them. As far as Freddie Grey murder goes, I think he was given a "rough ride" in a van but the cops did not intend to kill him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 18 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said: Drunk after a party or something? Those tolerant lefties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 12 hours ago, debluvscanucks said: I'll start by saying that being a police officer is a tough job and those who go into that profession put their lives on the line. That is an accepted risk and they are provided training in line with that. However, a weapon wasn't produced here and my guess would be that firing at point blank range at a person who was compliant and in a seatbelt was likely not the best option. This officer acted on fear and nervousness and clearly wasn't equipped with the tools he needed...other than a weapon that had a fatal result. This guy had a wide nose (like a suspect) and a broken taillight. He also had a gun with a permit, and disclosed that. Common sense would tell me he wasn't planning on using it by declaring it. That, if he was reaching for his gun he would have simply done that? He reportedly stated that he was getting his license, as requested to do. AND, there was a child in the car. Seems to me this officer jumped to the most excessive force before trying a better option. He didn't even see a firearm...but he shot? That seems a little premature and excessive. That no other measures of restraint were used if he felt in danger (which would be the only acceptable excuse for firing). Now the flip side is that there are many who hate cops and some communities that have a history (and reason) to. The cops are well aware of this, but it's THEIR job to deescalate things, not escalate them. It's a sad situation, but you can't just pull people over and shoot them based on they have a gun. I would guess that they'd have to have it in their hand, followed by a command to drop it? This nervous cop fired in a preventative action. That just doesn't seem fair. I'm also concerned that this asshat of a mother did not console her child but opted to get video. I understand why, but do both. Videos have the child scream/cry and my concern is for her. That this was absolutely traumatizing and that mother failed, miserably in the video she shot afterward, in the police car with her child. Shut off the phone for chrissake and hug that child who needs it. It rattled me that she continued to document rather than turn her attention to her child who'd just witnessed this horrible event. Unfortunately real life isn't Hollywood. By the time you get those words out you could be finished. IIRC I thought it was you who was married/dated/buddies(can't remember the relationship) with a police officer?? If this is the case you likely are well aware of the daily struggles and surprises officers face. So many in here think there job is so simple and jump all over them when incidents happen and many people generalize. I wish these people would also remember all the good things police officers do. Obviously this incident and others shouldn't have happened but being a cop in the U.S can be life or death and you have to act fast. We have also had some incidents in Canada also, remember the fallen 4 here in Alberta? Imagine just doing your job and being gunned down by some lunatic. Sadly it goes both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 11 hours ago, CBH1926 said: Of course race matter when it comes to dealing with people, everyone knows that. As far as Rice goes, two cops were initially told that a black male is pointing a gun in the park. They were not informed that he was a juvenile or that the gun was most likely fake. Once they pulled in, he allegedly reached in his waistband to grab the gun. Now if those cope made that story up they should be in jail. If not, once someone reaches to grab a gun they usually shoot. Hindsight is 20/20, no way for them to tell if the gun is real or not, especially if the orange tip is missing. Again tragic situation but the question is was this a mistake or was it done maliciously. As far as your job goes, patients die under doctor's or EMT care all the time. To prove malice or intent takes a long time. Did doctor misread an MRI by mistake or did he get drunk and operated on someone and killed them. As far as Freddie Grey murder goes, I think he was given a "rough ride" in a van but the cops did not intend to kill him. So the Gray case, the cops wanted to give him a 'rough ride' and didn't mean to kill him, but killed him. Somehow that's okay? That is at minimum Manslaughter. Why are you defending that. The Rice case, the footage is pretty conclusive, the cops rolled il and started opening fire. There was literally no time for Rice to even process what was happening, let alone reach into his belt. The police rolled up with the intention to use deadly force based on the 911 call. I can can tell you from real experience, never go by the call notes, they are often wrong. Either way, based on a 911 call and 12 sec scene assessment two cops gunned down a 12 year old child. In the grand jury the DA took the unheard of step of presenting the defences case to prevent this from ever proceeding to trial. Justice denied. FYI did you know that the Guards at the Cleveland lockup turned the water off in a prisoners cell for 6 days and the man died (murdered) from Dehydration. No chargers have been laid... At what point does the US start to look at the way it is policing and make real changes. How can a society survive if police that commit violent crimes against citizens are not held accountable. As for my job and the ramifications for directly causing the death of a patient either intentionally as the Gray case of the Cleveland lockup case, even if I didn't mean to actually kill someone, just hurt them. I would have committed a crime, murder or manslaughter. If I had just hurt them, it's called assault. Or, thru a scenario where I fail to follow established protocols and established practice and cause harm is called gross negligence. If I wilfully and deliberately failed to follow established practice and protocols and cause harm, that becomes criminal negligence. The in the Rice case proper procedures were not followed. Had the responding officers followed the proper procedure in that instance, they would have parked at a distance, approached the scene from different directions cautiously with guns drawn. They would have taken the time if assess before putting themselves in danger. Instead they rolled up and opened fire. If you have any relevant experience in emergency services or the legal aspects of it, please inform me to your background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canorth Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Here is the police cam of the shooting. Brutal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone909 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 21 minutes ago, Canorth said: Here is the police cam of the shooting. Brutal. Straight up murdered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canorth Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 7 minutes ago, tbone909 said: Straight up murdered. You can hear him tell the cop that he had a gun and a license to carry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 13 minutes ago, Canorth said: You can hear him tell the cop that he had a gun and a license to carry It's the law when speaking to an officer you have tell them you have a licence to carry, and the gun is with you - first thing. That's exactly what the victim did. He did like the law says he has to, and he gets shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Canorth said: Here is the police cam of the shooting. Brutal. 53 minutes ago, tbone909 said: Straight up murdered. 44 minutes ago, Canorth said: You can hear him tell the cop that he had a gun and a license to carry 27 minutes ago, Alflives said: It's the law when speaking to an officer you have tell them you have a licence to carry, and the gun is with you - first thing. That's exactly what the victim did. He did like the law says he has to, and he gets shot. After watching that video for the first time I think it's obvious why the officer was found not guilty. He said don't reach for it and he still reached for it apparently.(no camera inside) I think his own reaction showed how upset and traumatized he was over what happened. But what would you guys do in his shoes if you felt the individual was reaching for a gun? The only thing I don't understand is it sounded like he shot him multiple times which I can't think why that is necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone909 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 55 minutes ago, Canorth said: You can hear him tell the cop that he had a gun and a license to carry Yep, as i said straight up murdered him. The cops reaction speaks volumes, he knew he F**ked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone909 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 7 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said: After watching that video for the first time I think it's obvious why the officer was found not guilty. He said don't reach for it and he still reached for it apparently.(no camera inside) I think his own reaction showed how upset and traumatized he was over what happened. But what would you guys do in his shoes if you felt the individual was reaching for a gun? The only thing I don't understand is it sounded like he shot him multiple times which I can't think why that is necessary. Yeah because he fired 6 shoots off. Sorry only 4 shoots into him.Have to hand it to his girlfriend for staying so calm as it most likely saved her life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canorth Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 6 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said: After watching that video for the first time I think it's obvious why the officer was found not guilty. He said don't reach for it and he still reached for it apparently.(no camera inside) I think his own reaction showed how upset and traumatized he was over what happened. But what would you guys do in his shoes if you felt the individual was reaching for a gun? The only thing I don't understand is it sounded like he shot him multiple times which I can't think why that is necessary. He shot him 7 times... with his wife and child in the car. Why would a guy disclose that he has a license to carry and has a weapon on him, then reach for the gun to shoot the cop??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, Canorth said: He shot him 7 times... with his wife and child in the car. Why would a guy disclose that he has a license to carry and has a weapon on him, then reach for the gun to shoot the cop??? I don't disagree but why reach for the firearm after being told not to. Cops don't have time to think and hope they don't get shot. If he said don't reach for it, Don't. Lots of nut jobs in the U.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone909 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Canorth said: He shot him 7 times... with his wife and child in the car. Why would a guy disclose that he has a license to carry and has a weapon on him, then reach for the gun to shoot the cop??? His girlfriend said four, but i heard at least 6 as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 6 minutes ago, tbone909 said: Yeah because he fired 6 shoots off. Sorry only 4 shoots into him.Have to hand it to his girlfriend for saying so calm as it most likely saved her life. Her calmness was pretty surprising actually I thought of that after watching the video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canorth Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said: I don't disagree but why reach for the firearm after being told not to. Cops don't have time to think and hope they don't get shot. If he said don't reach for it, Don't. Lots of nut jobs in the U.S. Sounded like he was reaching for his license or registration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone909 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Just now, Ryan Strome said: Her calmness was pretty surprising actually I thought of that after watching the video. It saved her life as i said the cop at this point was kinda out of control ,she even said "Please don't shoot me Officer" . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Just now, Canorth said: Sounded like he was reaching for his license or registration. Poor training possibly? I just don't think he wanted to shoot him nor do I think it was racially motivated. Nevertheless it is a very tragic event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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