Proposal VAN - DAL (The Most Obvious Trade Ever)

[Mr.53]

Although it may never happen, you say overpayment, I say good enticing deal to the other side. 

 

In business, when making a deal with the other side, you look for a few things. Their needs, your wants, common ground, and then overall value to both sides. 

 

Their needs and situation:

1. NHL Calibre Defensman: Chris Tanev
2. Defensive prospect close to NHL ready: Jordan Subban
3. Draft picks to restock the cupboard volume wise: 2 second round Draft picks

• There are no young defensmen realistically available. Honestly, that alone can help us bring the price down, rather than this being the max. But they basically have to make a trade for one while trying to keep their team together. That means giving up either draft picks or prospects. Might as well just give up one pick.
• They are in a win now situation, and the third overall pick this year will not be close to NHL ready. Still as a third overall pick, without a first rounder coming back, those don't come cheap.

Our needs and situation:

1. Top offensive center to bounce off of Bo Horvat: Cody Glass or Gabriel Vilardi
2. Top right handed PMD defensman to bounce of off Juolevi: Cale Makar or Whoever

• We don't need Tanev right now going into a rebuild year. His value will also never be higher than it is now, and his no trade clause kicks in soon. He's basically our most valuable trade asset, and won't do much for us next year as we rebuild and retool.
• Adding both Goldobin and Dahlen was huge. Both of those guys are worth 2nd round picks on their own right at least. Stecher and a potential Makar also make Subban expandable. Yet both Subban and our 2nd rounders still have good value. 

 

Basically our wants and areas of surpluses match perfectly like a puzzle. There is a lot of common ground with needs and wants. Both sides get something, or things of value coming back. This or less should be able to get that pick. At this price or less, both sides walk out with smiles on their faces. 

 

I understand people don't want to give up picks, but at this point I honestly feel like its much more important to secure 2 or 3 more top high end, high ceiling prospects, rather than projects. There's only so many spots on a team.  We have 6 young forwards and 4 defensemen, that I consider locks to be NHL calibre players. (Baertschi, Goldobin, Horvat, Boeser, Virtanen at forward, and Juolvei, Gudbranson, Hutton, and Stecher on the back.) The thing missing from both those lists are a center and right handed dman. I'd rather the 3rd and 5th overall picks than Subban and 2 seconds, but that's just my opinion.

 

You have to give to get people. If it doesn't hurt in some way, it's unrealistic. But either way, if this is an overpayment, than JB, go pay less and get that 3rd overall. The important part is walking out with 2 top picks. Walk out with Cody Glass and Cale Makar and I'll be happy.

[mll]

Heika says that Dallas is trying to use #29 to get a defensive D.  He thinks they would be willing to move back a few spots from #3 if they can still pick Makar - at #3 they would be picking Heiskanen.  

So if a deal is to be made with the Canucks #5 would need to be part of the deal. 

[12-16-FG]

WWWWWAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY over payment.

 

[Mr.53]

Honestly if you think this is an overpayment then I would try and get Dallas to add Nichushkin. He's not a sure thing as he could stay in Russia, but at least that gives us the chance to bring him back along with Glass and Makar.

[Nuxfanabroad]

They want the 5th?..Simply demand Honka's tossed into the pkg.

 

Tanev ain't scrap metal..stay firm, JB.

[Nuck1991]

i saved my today's minus fr ur post.

[terrible.dee]

Terrible......horrible...There is ZERO point in moving up from 5 unless it is to #1 and management believes Patrick or Hircher is the center who, along with Horvat will provide this team with it's foundation for the next decade.

 

What you propose is a latteral move, we enjoy no apreciable benefits but lose Tanev, Subban and two 2nds and have NOTHING we didn't have before. Why not send Horvat to Montreal for future considerations while you are at it? 

 

That on it's own is bad enough, but then you want to do all this to get f'ing Makar?!?!

The beer league all-star? The rec-center sniper? Why? so he can start a pick-up game here and skate circles around the Jabroni's he's playing against?

 

Have you learned nothing from the Virtanen debacle? Competition is EVERYTHING, and just like Jake didn't need any real hockey sense to bully his way north/south and score against kids, Makar's game is totally based on his playing against people who can't deal with his skating. When Jake faced off against MEN his game fell apart as everyone who two brain cells to rub together predicted it would, and so with 5th overall we ended up with 9g in THE AHL, and a guy who is faced with the mamoth task of re-build his whole game from the ground up, and this is a guy not known for his work ethic, you do the math.After being drafted 5th you shouldn't need hockey lessons.

 

And so you want to REPEAT this mistake? Just because Erik Karlsson and offensive D-men are all the rage right now? Makar is smoke and mirrors, what he does right now, he cannot do in the NHL....we don't even know if he could do it in the AHL....or EVEN MAJOR JR! 

 

I predict the guy's ceiling is M.A Bergeron or John Micheal Liles, a small defensemen who can't really defend and is a liability (pun) to his team's D core but gets jobs as a PP specialist, thus unbalancing the minuetes of other defenders and causing more rotational D pairs as opposed to consistent pairings. We don't need that, we need core pieces not peripheral players.

 

And that is best case scenario (My opinion) I think the most likely outcome is another ill-conceived draft pick, another product of "trend chasing" down in the AHL trying to learn the game of hockey from the ground up.

 

Makar is an illusion, a magic trick, put me on the ice against some guys who can't skate and I'll look like a million bucks too, because I CAN skate and know how to carry and shoot/pass a puck, but put me on the ice against players who play serious competitive hockey? I'll get destroyed, because while I can and do play hockey, I'm not very good at it...or am I? IT DEPENDS ON WHO I'M PLAYING AGAINST, and any serious hockey player will eat me for breakfast.

 

But Makar is the exception to this rule? It's hard enough to predict whether a player's game will translate from the AHL or Major JR to the NHL...but Makar is just going to waltz right from the AJHL to the NHL without a hiccup? Remember, this guy is boom or bust, either he's a star or he's useless, this guy can't be the average NHL D-man, he needs to do what he's doing right NOW in the NHL or he's a wasted pick.

 

We drafted Jake because, at the time, all the hype was about the "Big California teams" and everything was all about having size (ha ha.....good one, you're clever)

Benning followed the Lemming's over the cliff with Jake, that should be proof enough that chasing trends DOESN'T WORK.

 

 

[Gaudette Celly]

That Benning, always throwing away draft picks. 

 

Oh look, finally some extra picks!  Let's throw them away.

[westvandude]

17 hours ago, terrible.dee said:

Terrible......horrible...There is ZERO point in moving up from 5 unless it is to #1 and management believes Patrick or Hircher is the center who, along with Horvat will provide this team with it's foundation for the next decade.

 

Where did you get the moving up part?! his proposal would give us 3rd and 5th, not just 3rd

[westvandude]

I wouldn't do this at all. Not that I think it's unfair, just from a long-term rebuilding point of view, I don't want to give up so many prospects and picks for 1 very high pick in this draft. 

 

We're giving up two 2nd rounders AND subban. That's too many prospects & good enough picks for the stage of rebuild we're at now. 

 

I'd do the trade if it's straight up Tanev for 3rd, maybe throw in a 3rd+ round, but nothing more. It may not be enough for Dallas, but I wouldn't give up anything more. Tanev should be able to give us something valuable at trade deadline too (and no his 15 team NTC won't really be an issue).

[cripplereh]

WAY over payment and I doubt that benning would do anything close to that

[bp79]

On 6/19/2017 at 8:34 AM, Mr.53 said:

Exactly! I honestly think that we may be slightly overpaying in this deal, which means it's more than fair for Dallas. It's a deal that's so good, they pretty much have to say yes. In reality we would probably recieve a late pick in return as well, but overall, if we think we are overpaying, it's in a good ball park of being fair.

 

Still, I would argue that both our seconds just aren't needed with the huge recent additions of Goldobin and Dahlen. Or at least, we can afford to lose those 2 seconds this year, if it get's us a true cornerstone piece. A

 

nd with Stecher emerging, and us possibly taking a right handed PMD dman, Subban simply just isn't needed. It's great value on top of Tanev for the 3rd overall but that's what makes it a great deal. 

 

Tanev just simply fits what they want perfectly and will help them now. They're all pieces of good to significant value that we simply just don't need at this stage as opposed to another top pick.

 

I think JB should pull the trigger after the expansion draft, but here's hoping.

How about let's not overpay to drop 2 spots and probably draft the same player. And without Tanev Sbisa you wanna get rid of Subban just based on stercher.? Subban has put up monster numbers in the AHL and until he is given A proper shot here he should not be traded. For example, Dallas refuses to add Honka in any deal. Yet Subban has outscored him every year. For all we know We have Tyson Barrie just waiting for A chance. And thanks to our new coach I really believe he will get A hard look this year. Besides if you trade Tanman and Subban our right side consists of giddy Biega and Stecher. Already pretty thin imagine if stech goes down. Who in gods name is going to fill that void. I'm fine with trading Tanev or Edler. But only if it is A trade that we win. 

 

 IE Tanev+ for Duchene or RNH. or Edler for A first round pick. Dallas would actually be perfect with the chemistry he showed with klingburg. The 29th or the rights to Valeri. of course for that we would have to add A bit. But if an unproven 9thoverall CHL player lands you Drouin. it goes to show you the value of D and Edler for A known flight risk who doesn't want to be in Dallas, or even Edler for Kane are both deals I'd be ok with. Oh, the Draft can't come soon enough. 

 

I have nevewr been this excited about A draft ever. The buzz is just intoxicating.

[bp79]

14 hours ago, westvandude said:

I wouldn't do this at all. Not that I think it's unfair, just from a long-term rebuilding point of view, I don't want to give up so many prospects and picks for 1 very high pick in this draft. 

 

We're giving up two 2nd rounders AND subban. That's too many prospects & good enough picks for the stage of rebuild we're at now. 

 

I'd do the trade if it's straight up Tanev for 3rd, maybe throw in a 3rd+ round, but nothing more. It may not be enough for Dallas, but I wouldn't give up anything more. Tanev should be able to give us something valuable at trade deadline too (and no his 15 team NTC won't really be an issue).

-It's actually 8 teams. What I don't get is why so many people are willing to just throw in Subban. Yes, he has some issues at D.l But he has destroyed the AHL and has never really been given A shot to prove if he can translate that into the NHL. Pair him with A guy like Edler or maybe OJ and let this kid do his thing. WE need A true offensive D. Will he make mistakes in his end? Sure but maybe if he's putting up 40-50 points and our PP becomes lethal again that won't matter quite so much. Could you imagine the gut wrenching agony we would feel if this kid becomes the next Barrie or Ellis? Who didn't put it all together until he was older then Subban is now. Not to mention we would have Biega Stecher and guddy as our top 3 RHD. what the frick happens if God forbid Stech get's hurt? or anyone of them for that matter. Better hope we draft LIljgren as he would be the only guy who could go straight to Utica. And he better be the guy he was A year ago. Not just that. but to give up 2 nd round picks. One basically A first. to move up 2 spots to get A guy who most likely wojn;t be any better than the guy at 5th unless one of the big 2 drop. 

 

\Im not opposed to trading Tanev or Edler if the deal is A no no-brainer  Reinhart Duchene Jesse pulliarvi Id even throw in CBJs 2nd. Or if its Edler (and yes he will waive) they always do and he is on record saying as much. If Dallas offered Valeri (we add obviously, or their 29thj and a plus or Kane etc then ya Id pull the trigger. But to give up the 5th Tanev and both our 2nds to go from picking Casey, or Glass or Peterson or Necas or Timothy, as opposed to in assuming Gabe? Whom I think is way way over-rated.

 

With LV poacing so many top 4 vD teams are going to need to fill that spot And of all the guys they took. Personally I think Tanev and Edler are better than all of them except Theo and only because he is younger and seems to be trajecting quite well. Tho that could change in A hurry.

 

Look ar Matta or Pouliot. They seem to have regressed A bit. 

 

Just my 2 cents. I'm sure were all gonna be wrong and nothing will happen lol. Cheers

[bp79]

On 6/20/2017 at 6:14 PM, terrible.dee said:

Terrible......horrible...There is ZERO point in moving up from 5 unless it is to #1 and management believes Patrick or Hircher is the center who, along with Horvat will provide this team with it's foundation for the next decade.

 

What you propose is a latteral move, we enjoy no apreciable benefits but lose Tanev, Subban and two 2nds and have NOTHING we didn't have before. Why not send Horvat to Montreal for future considerations while you are at it? 

 

That on it's own is bad enough, but then you want to do all this to get f'ing Makar?!?!

The beer league all-star? The rec-center sniper? Why? so he can start a pick-up game here and skate circles around the Jabroni's he's playing against?

 

Have you learned nothing from the Virtanen debacle? Competition is EVERYTHING, and just like Jake didn't need any real hockey sense to bully his way north/south and score against kids, Makar's game is totally based on his playing against people who can't deal with his skating. When Jake faced off against MEN his game fell apart as everyone who two brain cells to rub together predicted it would, and so with 5th overall we ended up with 9g in THE AHL, and a guy who is faced with the mamoth task of re-build his whole game from the ground up, and this is a guy not known for his work ethic, you do the math.After being drafted 5th you shouldn't need hockey lessons.

 

And so you want to REPEAT this mistake? Just because Erik Karlsson and offensive D-men are all the rage right now? Makar is smoke and mirrors, what he does right now, he cannot do in the NHL....we don't even know if he could do it in the AHL....or EVEN MAJOR JR! 

 

I predict the guy's ceiling is M.A Bergeron or John Micheal Liles, a small defensemen who can't really defend and is a liability (pun) to his team's D core but gets jobs as a PP specialist, thus unbalancing the minuetes of other defenders and causing more rotational D pairs as opposed to consistent pairings. We don't need that, we need core pieces not peripheral players.

 

And that is best case scenario (My opinion) I think the most likely outcome is another ill-conceived draft pick, another product of "trend chasing" down in the AHL trying to learn the game of hockey from the ground up.

 

Makar is an illusion, a magic trick, put me on the ice against some guys who can't skate and I'll look like a million bucks too, because I CAN skate and know how to carry and shoot/pass a puck, but put me on the ice against players who play serious competitive hockey? I'll get destroyed, because while I can and do play hockey, I'm not very good at it...or am I? IT DEPENDS ON WHO I'M PLAYING AGAINST, and any serious hockey player will eat me for breakfast.

 

But Makar is the exception to this rule? It's hard enough to predict whether a player's game will translate from the AHL or Major JR to the NHL...but Makar is just going to waltz right from the AJHL to the NHL without a hiccup? Remember, this guy is boom or bust, either he's a star or he's useless, this guy can't be the average NHL D-man, he needs to do what he's doing right NOW in the NHL or he's a wasted pick.

 

We drafted Jake because, at the time, all the hype was about the "Big California teams" and everything was all about having size (ha ha.....good one, you're clever)

Benning followed the Lemming's over the cliff with Jake, that should be proof enough that chasing trends DOESN'T WORK.

 

 

Well, you may very well be right. There is just as good of A chance you are wrong. We will find out when he goes off to college this year. Personally, Iwouldnd't draft him until the 2nd round I mean Webber and so many other ds get drafted in the later rounds because you have such A harder time assessing how their game will translate 

 

Where I disagree with you big time is on Jake.l Does everyone forget the had major shoulder surgery his draft year? He was then dumped on the 4th line shattering an 18-year-old kids conmfidence. And yes he screwed up this season . he got cocky came to camp out of shape and seemed to develop a bit of an attitude. So what did JB do? sent his ass to utica. And not just for some get in shape and show me you learned your lesson. No, he parked him there and told Green to get these bad habits gone. He was shown no special treatment cuz he was A high pick t. They bagged him they played him on A checking line to start the season, the benched his ass. And guess what. He grew up right in front of our eyes I think to label him how you do is complete bull-$&!# pardon my French. The kid get's labelled as A guy with no hockey Iq. Is he as creative as some other players? no. Can those players destroy you with a punishing hit and then score A highlight reel goal Not like he can PF is the hardest transition to make, and he finally started putting all that together the last bit of the season. When he was put on A line with Goldy. You could just see the talent and dare I say Iq come together. 

 

Mark my words Jake will make te team next year, and he will be A solid top 9, to start and once he gets A chance in the top 6 it will not give it up. 2 words Todd Bertuzzi. Took A little  while They also said he had no hockey Iq