Provost Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Assuming we lose Sbisa, we will have to fill a hole on the LD side, Juolevi should not be rushed especially in a season where it is expected that things may be a tire fire. Washington is facing some significant cap issues. Orpik is a solid veteran player, but is overpaid and Washington needs the cap space to continue to try to win. We have cap space, and he would be a useful player for us and our young defence. Having him also makes it easier to trade Tanev for a good return, as we would still have enough steady presence on the blueline. Washington would need to give us a pick or solid prospect in return as there are cheaper alternatives out there (like Despres) if we simply wanted to fill the hole and not also accumulate assets. On the down side, Washington has very few picks left so may not be in a position to offer much. Edler-Stecher Hutton-Gudbranson Orpik-Biega Pedan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 If his contract was for one more year, maybe. I don't want two years of that contract though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Their 2018 1st + 2018 3rd would have to be the minimum for a 2-year 5.5M cap-dump. Chances are that 1st is in the bottom 7-8 of the round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 35 minutes ago, -AJ- said: If his contract was for one more year, maybe. I don't want two years of that contract though. If he was on an albatross contract I would agree. He had by far the best plus minus on a very good team this past season. He would immediately be one of our best defencemen, especially if he wasn't asked to regularly play more than 20 minutes per game at his age. Someone who still has the ability to move up into top minutes in case of injury, which we don't have right now. It is kind of equivalent to getting Scott Hartnell, still a very useful player but just a little overpaid and falling lower on the depth chart because of being on good teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PunjabiCanucks Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 First rounder please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 My first thought was "no way he'd waive". But then I looked, and yeah, no clause whatsoever. So if the sweetener is good enough, I like this deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHitman Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 This could be a deal that's worth it for Washington, they have a ton of players to re-sign and want to keep Alzner/Oshie around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckmen84 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 2 hours ago, Provost said: Washington would need to give us a pick or solid prospect in return So Tanev for Orpik and a pick or solid prospect... I would say sounds good to me but what prospect or what pick are we talking about here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Something like Hutton, for Orpik & 2018 1st? In 2 yrs, Brisebois, OJ, & others(Holm, Pedan, McEneny) are probably ready for the left side. By then Edler & Orpik would have served their purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 13 minutes ago, canuckmen84 said: So Tanev for Orpik and a pick or solid prospect... I would say sounds good to me but what prospect or what pick are we talking about here? Umm... nothing to do with Tanev. Washington needs a cap dump if they want to re-sign someone like Oshie which they apparently do It would be something nominal from us like a low end prospect or late pick. In return we take Orpik's contract with the full cap hit, as well as another asset. Probably a couple of mid round picks (3rd and 4th maybe). It wouldn't be a first round pick as he is still a good player, they just can't afford him. A bigger deal sending a value player to them like Hutton means we do extract a top pick plus something else. It would actually fit a succession plan pretty well. Hutton kind of blocks Juolevi from moving into that 2nd pairing spot. Orpik is more disposable and easier to drop to 3rd pairing if Juolevi can earn extra minutes by the end of 2018/19. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckmen84 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 1 minute ago, Provost said: Umm... nothing to do with Tanev. Washington needs a cap dump if they want to re-sign someone like Oshie which they apparently do It would be something nominal from us like a low end prospect or late pick. In return we take Orpik's contract with the full cap hit, as well as another asset. Probably a couple of mid round picks (3rd and 4th maybe). It wouldn't be a first round pick as he is still a good player, they just can't afford him. My bad, thought you were suggesting Tanev as part of A deal. However.... Our CBJ 2nd for their 2018 1st and Orpik sound fair ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 1 hour ago, canuckmen84 said: My bad, thought you were suggesting Tanev as part of A deal. However.... Our CBJ 2nd for their 2018 1st and Orpik sound fair ? Why on earth would we take on 5.5M x 2 to move up about 30 spots (I know two different years, but same effect). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 4 hours ago, Provost said: He had by far the best plus minus on a very good team this past season. He would immediately be one of our best defencemen, especially if he wasn't asked to regularly play more than 20 minutes per game at his age. Someone who still has the ability to move up into top minutes in case of injury, which we don't have right now. Have you watched him recently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckmen84 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 1 hour ago, kanucks25 said: Why on earth would we take on 5.5M x 2 to move up about 30 spots (I know two different years, but same effect). Well i thonk Provost gave some compelling reasons but also moving up those 30 spots could mean the difference between drafting the next Boeser a"late 1st" or drafting a bust in the late 2nd round. At least that's what i was thinking.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 1 hour ago, kanucks25 said: Have you watched him recently? This just completed season is as recent as you can get. +32 I think 181 hits It isn't like he has fallen off a cliff. He just shouldn't be playing as many hard minutes as he is getting older. If he was a UFA this year he would be picked up for sure and probably in the $3.5-4.5 range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 As we spin our wheels in the mud, these are the kinds of deals we need to entertain. The million variations all come down to how much cap relief do we offer(to improve someone's present), in exchange for precisely how much future treasure? This is where we need JB to drive a hard bargain. If the counterpart won't play ball, patiently wait as cap space grows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 13 minutes ago, Provost said: This just completed season is as recent as you can get. +32 I think 181 hits It isn't like he has fallen off a cliff. He just shouldn't be playing as many hard minutes as he is getting older. If he was a UFA this year he would be picked up for sure and probably in the $3.5-4.5 range. Wouldn't look too much into +/-, his team was dominant all the way up and down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, kanucks25 said: Wouldn't look too much into +/-, his team was dominant all the way up and down. You compare plus minus to the other players on the same team to correct for that. It is why I noted that he had the best on his team. You seem to be just throwing random stuff at the wall to defend your idea he is a bad player, contrary to the actual reality of him being pretty good though overpaid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 12 minutes ago, Provost said: You compare plus minus to the other players on the same team to correct for that. It is why I noted that he had the best on his team. You seem to be just throwing random stuff at the wall to defend your idea he is a bad player, contrary to the actual reality of him being pretty good though overpaid. He was deployed like an offensive defenseman despite not having much offensive ability at all. 14 points in 79 games on the best team in the league that was also 3rd highest in scoring despite that deployment. And go ask Washington fans what they think of the eye-test. He's a bottom-pairing D-man at best being paid 3M (over double) what he's worth. Hits and +/- were valid arguments about 30 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted June 20, 2017 Author Share Posted June 20, 2017 3 hours ago, canuckmen84 said: My bad, thought you were suggesting Tanev as part of A deal. However.... Our CBJ 2nd for their 2018 1st and Orpik sound fair ? Probably somewhere in the ballpark, but maybe too much on our end. Giving a pick this season for one that is a year farther down the road is likely a non starter for a GM who may be fighting for his job by the time that pick comes to fruition. I actually like Nuxfanabroad's idea of doing Hutton included in the deal. You would think Washington would be all over that since their depth is going to take a huge hit this offseason. Hutton's contract is good value. For us, we end up in a lateral move in the short term and Hutton isn't that much better than Orpik... Hutton just has a lot of years and potential upside left. In the long term we have to decide if a 1st rounder is likely to end up better than Hutton. It is not "impossible" that Washington falls off a cliff and misses the playoffs next season and you end up with a pick in the lottery and at least in the top half of the 1st round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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