coastal.view Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 21 hours ago, Joe_Kerr said: Elias Pettersson: approximately 87.99 points per 82 games at peak" 44 minutes ago, cory40 said: I sure hope this article is right Because I have been calling EP a generational talent since he was drafted. really not sure how you got generational talent from the article particularly when it projects his peak production to be under 90 points in a given year now let's compare this to a certain player who there is no meaningful question about him being a true generational talent:: from wikpedia: Gretzky is the leading scorer in NHL history, with more goals and assists than any other player. He garnered more assists than any other player scored total points, and is the only NHL player to total over 200 points in one season – a feat he accomplished four times. simple math - the best 4 seasons of gretzky = 840 points based on the article it will take ep 9 1/2 seasons to match that .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cory40 Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Just now, coastal.view said: really not sure how you got generational talent from the article particularly when it projects his peak production to be under 90 points in a given year now let's compare this to a certain player who there is no meaningful question about him being a true generational talent:: from wikpedia: Gretzky is the leading scorer in NHL history, with more goals and assists than any other player. He garnered more assists than any other player scored total points, and is the only NHL player to total over 200 points in one season – a feat he accomplished four times. simple math - the best 4 seasons of gretzky = 840 points based on the article it will take ep 9 1/2 seasons to match that .. Maybe you should read the article. esp the conclusion part when it says generational talent. SImple math had all the unrealistic expectations dropped. EP will be 100 plus point player for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khay Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 1 minute ago, coastal.view said: really not sure how you got generational talent from the article particularly when it projects his peak production to be under 90 points in a given year now let's compare this to a certain player who there is no meaningful question about him being a true generational talent:: from wikpedia: Gretzky is the leading scorer in NHL history, with more goals and assists than any other player. He garnered more assists than any other player scored total points, and is the only NHL player to total over 200 points in one season – a feat he accomplished four times. simple math - the best 4 seasons of gretzky = 840 points based on the article it will take ep 9 1/2 seasons to match that .. different era. Pettersson in that era may score 200 points. who knows? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richado Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 22 hours ago, Joe_Kerr said: "So with all the talk of this draft being a two horse race between Patrick and Hischier...in my humble opinion, it’s a one horse race. And that horse’s name...is Elias Pettersson." Wait... Pettersson is a horse? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nergish Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 22 hours ago, Joe_Kerr said: A few of my favourite tid bits from this article "First, Pettersson scored at a rate exactly 500% that of Patrik Berglund in their respective draft years. Based on Berglunds career high of a 52 point pace over 82 games that gave Pettersson a comparative result of 260 points. Not going to happen." "Another anomaly was Filip Forsberg. Pettersson is a very early birthday in his draft year, Forsberg is very late. The comparative result from Forsberg gave Pettersson an expected 82 game pace of 155 points. While the age adjusted result would still be very favourable for Pettersson, I am throwing out this result as well due to the discrepancy. However, it should be noted that Pettersson’s draft year STILL outperformed Forsberg’s draft +1. Forsberg being a player who, in a re-draft of his year, would be heavily in contention for 1st overall. Victor Rask also gave a very odd result with 157 points. I’m not sure how to explain that except for Pettersson is a generational talent as well as some really nice post-draft development from Rask. Given that Rask’s birthday is in the middle of his draft year, I wouldn’t expect age to be a big factor." "So to recap, these numbers would ideally have better variable control, but I feel like they paint a decent general picture of the types of players these 3 will become: Nico Hischier: approximately 62.64 points per 82 games at peak Nolan Patrick: approximately 57.46 points per 82 games at peak (I have no doubt this number would be higher in a non-injury filled season) Elias Pettersson: approximately 87.99 points per 82 games at peak" "Pettersson also had a more productive season this year than teammate Jonathan Dahlen, who is widely considered to be one of the better prospects not currently playing in the NHL," "So with all the talk of this draft being a two horse race between Patrick and Hischier...in my humble opinion, it’s a one horse race. And that horse’s name...is Elias Pettersson." Haha sorry for the long post but I just love reading this stuff on our prospects. Definitely give the whole article a read. Thx @canuckledraggin for finding it and posting Is it weird that I would be behind this article even more if it were based a little more on eye test? The data is excellent... but generational players pass the eye test first and foremost. For example, I haven’t followed the statlines for Rasmus Dahlin very closely because I don’t need to. I’ve seen him skate the puck up the ice enough times to know he’s special. It seems almost as if the writer of the article hasn’t actually watched EP play. I don’t think Pettersson is generational. He’s simply a skilled offensive player who will be integral to the Canucks offense. He’s got crazy puck skills and a long reach, McDavid level hands without the blistering speed. Maybe Drouin with a better shot? If we can insulate with other skilled guys, we’ll reap the rewards. He’s extremely promising, but I kinda doubt he even dethrones Boeser as our best player. I would love if he just takes off flying out the gate though... His specific skillset is one we haven’t seen in a very long time, though. I just can’t help thinking he lacks a LITTLE bit of the puck hound drive of Dahlen or Lind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cory40 Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 16 minutes ago, khay said: Nice article. Thanks for finding it. Good post. Assuming that Pettersson is indeed the best forward to come out of 2017, I wonder how he stacks up against the two best forwards drafted in 2015 and 2016 (McDavid and Matthews). In my opinion, it goes something like this: Shot: Matthews > Pettersson > McDavid Passing: Pettersson > Matthews > McDavid Ability to generate scoring chances: McDavid >>> Matthews >> Pettersson Skating: McDavid >>> Matthews > Pettersson As you said, McDavid is not an elite passer, probably due to the fact that he did not have to thread a pass in his junior years. He had a real good linemate in junior (Strome) who can beat defenceman to get open and finish plays unlike now, where some of his linemates can't receive a pass. But yeah, his speed, acceleration, change of direction makes it so difficult to defend. A player that can generate chances on his own out of thin air. Pettersson has better pass, vision, and shot than McDavid but in terms of generating his own chances, EP is far behind. EP will get his points on PP for sure. But, on 5-on-5, Pettersson needs a puck hound as a linemate (Burrows type) that can create turnovers, so that EP can make plays and pounce on those turnovers. Gaining the offensive zone is another potential issue I noticed from WJC. Once Sweden gained a zone, the puck almost always went to EP and he did his magic with the puck, making plays, dekeing out the defenceman, and so on. But EP was having a bit of trouble gaining the zone by himself against tougher opponents like Canada. I noticed that this task of gaining the zone was eased thanks in large part to Rasmus Dahlin, who had that ability as a defenceman to gain the zone all by himself like Doughty and Keith. Assuming we don't get Dahlin on Canucks, who is going to handle that duty? I think if EP is used as a winger, then it's not much of a concern since he can start on Horvat's wing along with Boeser as suggested by many people here: EP-Horvat-Boeser. But if we want EP to run his own scoring line? I don't know if a suitable candidate exists on the Canucks system at this point. In comparison to Matthews, obviously, there is size difference. And Matthews shoots better than Pettersson, although Pettersson is no slouch either. I mean, Matthews shot is comparable to Boeser in the way he changes the angle, accuracy, and heaviness (although I think Boeser's shot is a bit heavier than Matthews). Matthews is an adept playmaker, better than McDavid but I think Pettersson wins here. Matthews does a bit better in terms of generating his own chances as well but different I think is marginal between EP and Matthews in this regards. I think in the long run, as McDavid gets better linemates and as he refines his passing and shooting, McDavid will win many more scoring titles compared to EP and Matthews but it's not farfetched to think that EP will win a scoring title or two given that he will have Boeser as a linemate to finish the plays. If Boeser gets a little quicker he would be a lot like Matthews as a player. another steal in the draft . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks Curse Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 There are just too many let downs in our history for me to believe he is generational, but God I hope so. in the AHL next year we should see Peterson, Dahlen, Gaudette, Juolevi and Lind. Is Gadjovich eligible? Prob 3 years away from playoff spot contention tho, need to hit some home runs this draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluralsight Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 8 minutes ago, Canucks Curse said: There are just too many let downs in our history for me to believe he is generational, but God I hope so. in the AHL next year we should see Peterson, Dahlen, Gaudette, Juolevi and Lind. Is Gadjovich eligible? Prob 3 years away from playoff spot contention tho, need to hit some home runs this draft Yes, Gadjovich and Lind are both AHL eligible next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks Curse Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, pluralsight said: Yes, Gadjovich and Lind are both AHL eligible next season. an influx of 6 good prospects to our ahl affiliate is truly unprecedented, it would be nice to finally get that first overall sigh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putgolzin Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 1 hour ago, cory40 said: Maybe you should read the article. esp the conclusion part when it says generational talent. SImple math had all the unrealistic expectations dropped. EP will be 100 plus point player for sure. I didn't read the article, but I guess it was written from the future?! I'm as hyped up about EP as the next guy but perhaps we should rein in our expectations a touch? I mean what if he's not even ppg next year? Do we ship him out? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckledraggin Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 50 minutes ago, nergish said: Is it weird that I would be behind this article even more if it were based a little more on eye test? The data is excellent... but generational players pass the eye test first and foremost. For example, I haven’t followed the statlines for Rasmus Dahlin very closely because I don’t need to. I’ve seen him skate the puck up the ice enough times to know he’s special. It seems almost as if the writer of the article hasn’t actually watched EP play. I don’t think Pettersson is generational. He’s simply a skilled offensive player who will be integral to the Canucks offense. He’s got crazy puck skills and a long reach, McDavid level hands without the blistering speed. Maybe Drouin with a better shot? If we can insulate with other skilled guys, we’ll reap the rewards. He’s extremely promising, but I kinda doubt he even dethrones Boeser as our best player. I would love if he just takes off flying out the gate though... His specific skillset is one we haven’t seen in a very long time, though. I just can’t help thinking he lacks a LITTLE bit of the puck hound drive of Dahlen or Lind. I'm kind of wondering from your comments if you have actually watched Elias play. He does pass the eye test from my point of view. He was put into the 2nd line center role recently and it gives Vaxjo a legitimate 2nd line scoring threat, whereas it was him playing with Calof and Rosen previous that was doing all of the scoring. Generational is such a loaded and subjective term. Is he a generational talent in Sweden? I'd say so. He's destroying the numbers of players who were superstars in the NHL. Then again there are definitely different eras in hockey that can't be compared and it's folly to do so. Maurice Richard, Bobby Orr, Gretzky and Lemieux simultaneously, Sidney Crosby and possibly Tavares, and now McDavid and Matthews are the players I would put in that category. Does that mean that individual countries can't proclaim that their players as generational based on other players who came before them within their countries program? That's the subjective part as far as I'm concerned. As far as Pettersson goes we just don't know until he steps up to that next level that's the eventual proving ground; the NHL. I've read on these forums that Tryamkin could be considered generational. That's far fetched considering that he has played in the NHL and didn't exactly dominate, however his size, skating and physical traits, make him a rare player that only comes around once in a generation like Chara. Is Chara a generational talent based on his play in the NHL? He is as far as the Czech republic is concerned. As far as a comparison to playing style I'd put him with Jagr. This will obviously rub people the wrong way because he could fit his waist in one leg of Jagr's pants, but the way he puts the puck from one side of his body to the other with his reach and puckhandling ability, makes him the best comparable that I've seen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nave Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 1 hour ago, nergish said: He’s extremely promising, but I kinda doubt he even dethrones Boeser as our best player. He'll be better than Boeser. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Kerr Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 I think people just get too caught up in the "generational talent" comment. He's most likely going to be a very good hockey player, all these labels mean nothing until he's well into his career, then we can actually tell. I just thought it was interesting that this article was written BEFORE the draft! Now he's having this record breaking season in the SHL... so maybe this guy was onto something. Just food for thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noble 6 Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 If Pettersson wins the Hart and Art Ross in the sophomore year, he'll be in the same conversation as McDavid. Until then, he's not close to generational. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tystick Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Guys. Petterson or Hischier. Who do you take 1st overall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nave Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, Tystick said: Guys. Petterson or Hischier. Who do you take 1st overall? I'm pretty happy with how things ended up--Devils are my second favourite team; Canucks are my first favourite team. I'd take Pettersson. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Luongo Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 6 hours ago, nergish said: Is it weird that I would be behind this article even more if it were based a little more on eye test? The data is excellent... but generational players pass the eye test first and foremost. For example, I haven’t followed the statlines for Rasmus Dahlin very closely because I don’t need to. I’ve seen him skate the puck up the ice enough times to know he’s special. It seems almost as if the writer of the article hasn’t actually watched EP play. I don’t think Pettersson is generational. He’s simply a skilled offensive player who will be integral to the Canucks offense. He’s got crazy puck skills and a long reach, McDavid level hands without the blistering speed. Maybe Drouin with a better shot? If we can insulate with other skilled guys, we’ll reap the rewards. He’s extremely promising, but I kinda doubt he even dethrones Boeser as our best player. I would love if he just takes off flying out the gate though... His specific skillset is one we haven’t seen in a very long time, though. I just can’t help thinking he lacks a LITTLE bit of the puck hound drive of Dahlen or Lind. Anyone who says Pettersson doesn't pass this so called eye test need to have their eyes checked or watch closer. I've watched a tonne of hockey as a lot of other fans have and have to say I've been bang on about a lot of evaluating players and this kid is generational. Pettersson does very special things in all facets of the game and from all the games that I've seen him play the only thing that gets in his way when he's not producing is his teammates not being near the same overall level and that's it. Great news is from what we've seen of other Canucks youngsters strong overall games I think he'll only be stronger all around than he already is and that's going to make him shine as a generational player he is. Not easy saying such a thing as it's so rare but I'm betting on it with this kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenhodgejr Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 50 minutes ago, Tystick said: Guys. Petterson or Hischier. Who do you take 1st overall? Im surprised i would be saying this but I think Pettersson wins that draft by a lot. Benning did will to get him. But I really hope we add a young skilled physical forward up front to help the smaller guys out. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugor Hill Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 8 hours ago, kenhodgejr said: Im surprised i would be saying this but I think Pettersson wins that draft by a lot. Benning did will to get him. But I really hope we add a young skilled physical forward up front to help the smaller guys out. If we don't win the Dahlin sweepstake, I want Tkachuk. Too bad we didn't draft his older brother a few years ago. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcam Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 28 minutes ago, Hugor Hill said: If we don't win the Dahlin sweepstake, I want Tkachuk. Too bad we didn't draft his older brother a few years ago. If we are drafting 4th and the Russian forward is already gone for sure take Tkachuck.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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