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Elias Pettersson | #40 | C

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Just now, Rob_Zepp said:

He got 52 points on the 29th place and lowest scoring team.   He outscored Kopitar and Toews on 5 on 5 I believe.   If he even had close to the PP time/points of anyone else near 50 points in the league (say Gagner), he would have been near 65 last year.    He is a better player than many think he is - in my opinion.

And I agree. That being said, as our top center, it's up to him as much as anyone else (if not more than anyone else) to get that powerplay going.

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4 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

If he spends next year in Utica, how does that count for two years in the minors?   

Sweden this year ...Utica next year....close enough....two years anywhere after being drafted.

Edited by clam linguine

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Just now, 48MPHSlapShot said:

And I agree. That being said, as our top center, it's up to him as much as anyone else (if not more than anyone else) to get that powerplay going.

Team game but I agree, he needs to play a part in that but Canucks still missing their PP quarterback....who is currently in Finland growing as a player and who may be here as early as next season.

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7 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

FWIW, Ehlers was FAR daintier than Pettersson, always falling down, and is currently 6' 172 and already into his third season in the NHL.

Ehlers is an absolutely elite skater though. A guy can get away with being small if he has elite skating like Ehlers or Gaudreau (probably the best edgework in the league). Pettersson doesn't really have that. 

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Just now, clam linguine said:

Sweden this year Utica next year....close enough....two years anywhere after being drafted.

Pretty much every college player in the NHL played at least two more years after being drafted....Boeser but one of many examples.    Since the draft has gone down to 18 from the previous 19, it is more common for players to play another year or even two back in junior and/or overseas/minors.    Not sure what that is such a negative thing in your mind as 18 year old players are rarely ready for the NHL - it happens but as often as not, save the rare generational talent, many who actually make it at 18 regress and don't develop near as much as those players who were allowed to grow a bit first post-draft.    

 

I think you have this a bit backwards, there are far more examples of players taking more than a year post draft to play regularly in the NHL and many of those players are the "stars" in today's NHL.    Many, many examples.    Randomly, Schwartz from StL is currently 3rd in NHL scoring and didn't play full NHL season until draft plus 3....go through top 50 scorers (let alone goalies and Dmen) and you will see similar with a common entry being in the draft plus 2/plus 3 range before first full season.

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5 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Pretty much every college player in the NHL played at least two more years after being drafted....Boeser but one of many examples.    Since the draft has gone down to 18 from the previous 19, it is more common for players to play another year or even two back in junior and/or overseas/minors.    Not sure what that is such a negative thing in your mind as 18 year old players are rarely ready for the NHL - it happens but as often as not, save the rare generational talent, many who actually make it at 18 regress and don't develop near as much as those players who were allowed to grow a bit first post-draft.    

 

I think you have this a bit backwards, there are far more examples of players taking more than a year post draft to play regularly in the NHL and many of those players are the "stars" in today's NHL.    Many, many examples.    Randomly, Schwartz from StL is currently 3rd in NHL scoring and didn't play full NHL season until draft plus 3....go through top 50 scorers (let alone goalies and Dmen) and you will see similar with a common entry being in the draft plus 2/plus 3 range before first full season.

I thought we were hoping for Sakic or Forsberg.  You give me Schwartz.  There probably are some, so just name two you want EP to aspire to be as good as.  I haven't researched it, so shove it down my throat.

 

If he's going to be great, he'll be on the team next year.

 

Edited by clam linguine

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32 minutes ago, clam linguine said:

No sarcasm. Can you name a couple forwards who spent two years in the minors after their draft year and are as good as you hope EP turns out? Maybe there are some. Who do you suggest.

My first thought is Pavel Datsyuk.  Did not play nhl in draft plus one or draft plus two.  As I see Benning as using the Detroit model I can't think of a better example.  

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Just now, clam linguine said:

I thought we were hoping for Sakic or Forsberg.  You give me Schwartz.  There probably are some, so just name two you want EP to aspire to be as good as.  I haven't researched it, so shove it down my throat.

 

Why would I 'shove it down your throat?'.   Was having what I thought was a friendly discussion.   I simply choose at random someone in the top of the league in scoring that was Stamkos as I knew he was one of those exceptional first overall types.     As far as Forsberg, he was drafted and then played FOUR more years in the "minors" as you call SEL prior to coming to NHL.     Sakic did just one more year "minors" - so the two of your examples average to 2.5 years (5 total) before NHL regulars.   To the point above, then why would 2 years for EP be some sort of failure?

 

Anyway, I apologize if you think I was "shoving" something at you.    Thought we were having a discussion.   

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Just now, TGT68 said:

My first thought is Pavel Datsyuk.  Did not play nhl in draft plus one or draft plus two.  As I see Benning as using the Detroit model I can't think of a better example.  

Oh yeah, lol, Datsyuk...good for breaking all the norms. I figured there'd be one....that's why I said two. 

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12 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Why would I 'shove it down your throat?'.   Was having what I thought was a friendly discussion.   I simply choose at random someone in the top of the league in scoring that was Stamkos as I knew he was one of those exceptional first overall types.     As far as Forsberg, he was drafted and then played FOUR more years in the "minors" as you call SEL prior to coming to NHL.     Sakic did just one more year "minors" - so the two of your examples average to 2.5 years (5 total) before NHL regulars.   To the point above, then why would 2 years for EP be some sort of failure?

 

Anyway, I apologize if you think I was "shoving" something at you.    Thought we were having a discussion.   

Oh sorry....I wasn't upset. I'm happy to eat my words on this.  I forgot this about Forsberg (always mix him up with Sundin). Ok then Datsyuk and Forsberg.  Maybe I should have stuck to the AHL.

Edited by clam linguine

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Just now, clam linguine said:

Oh sorry....I wasn't upset. I'm happy to eat my words on this.

Not my intention to get you to eat words, just saying that today a player will typically spend at least a year and more often two or three before becoming an NHL regular - and this includes the upper end talent too.  Some of the kids jump right in and it works for them but others jump right in and it doesn't go that well and, in fact, they end up regressing.

 

I think EP is showing he can play with and against men just fine and he may well be ready for next year but as the Canucks are really not quite yet a competitive team in terms of doing damage in playoffs (let alone making them), why rush him?   He oozes talent like few who Canucks have had in their system in their entire history - but he is also still very young, has a fair bit of physical maturity to harness and hasn't really had much North American sheet experience so he may be ok for next year but I would bet it will be two more years and he will come in, much like Boeser is currently, and be VERY ready to contribute right away.

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29 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

FWIW, Ehlers was FAR daintier than Pettersson, always falling down, and is currently 6' 172 and already into his third season in the NHL.

I'm going to add daintier to my vocabulary. Sounds dank 

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38 minutes ago, Ihatetomatoes said:

Ehlers is an absolutely elite skater though. A guy can get away with being small if he has elite skating like Ehlers or Gaudreau (probably the best edgework in the league). Pettersson doesn't really have that. 

It's not just about speed and mobility, it's about being elusive and aware on the ice.  Like the Sedins, not often you see Elias getting rocked.  He won't need to be 190lbs; may not even reach Sedin weight.

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27 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

It's not just about speed and mobility, it's about being elusive and aware on the ice.  Like the Sedins, not often you see Elias getting rocked.  He won't need to be 190lbs; may not even reach Sedin weight.

True but it also took the Sedins until their D+6 year to score over 50pts. 

 

Same with Turris who is a tall skinny guy. Wasn't until 7 years post draft he put up over 50pts. 

 

Elias will be an elite player for us no doubt. Might take some patience though

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5 hours ago, canuckledraggin said:

Clearly you haven't watched him play. Every time he touches the puck he does something that makes you think 'I didn't see that coming'. He made a few passes today that even caught his teammates by surprise and it was unfortunate since they were in a prime scoring area.

 

There was a shift in the 2nd period where he had a scoring chance, was the 2nd man back after a turnover and took possession, pushed the puck up ice and set up another chance. Then the puck came back to him in the slot and he had a great chance on net himself. I've watched hockey for a long time and this kid is special at a level that is rarely seen.

I've watched him play extensively. I just don't see the point of bringing him straight into the NHL next season. The Canucks will be fine, maybe even deep still, at center with the subtraction of Sedin and possible addition of Gaudette. They probably won't be challenging for the cup either. I'm not saying EP wouldn't do well in the NHL next year. I'm saying there's no real point of inserting him into the lineup next year. The cons outweigh the pros. Actually the only real pros I can think of are fans who are too lazy to follow his SHL play will get to see his immense skill. That's some good publicity for the team. And the very overrated belief that he'll "adapt" to the North American game. I've spoken before on how I believe the idea that Euro players need to adapt is a complete fallacy. So basically there's only one real benefit of EP playing next year in Vancouver: publicity and hype. I'd rather see him dominate the SHL next season at center (he's playing RW now if you were unaware) and then jump to the NHL and have an immediate impact in the top six. Vancouver drafted him to be a center, he should perfect that position in a pro league and beef up. Once he does that he should be able to step straight into the NHL and keep a top-six roll, rather than being bounced around the line-up, like what would probably happen if he started next season with the team.

Edited by dank.sinatra

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4 minutes ago, dank.sinatra said:

I've watched him play extensively. I just don't see the point of bringing him straight into the NHL next season. The Canucks will be fine, maybe even deep still, at center with the subtraction of Sedin and possible addition of Gaudette. They probably won't be challenging for the cup either. I'm not saying EP wouldn't do well in the NHL next year. I'm saying there's no real point of inserting him into the lineup next year. The cons outweigh the pros. Actually the only real pros I can think of are fans who are too lazy to follow his SHL play will get to see his immense skill. That's some good publicity for the team. And the very overrated belief that he'll "adapt" to the North American game. I've spoken before on how I believe the idea that Euro players need to adapt is a complete fallacy. So basically there's only real benefit of EP playing next year in Vancouver: publicity and hype. I'd rather see him dominate the SHL next season at center (he's playing RW now if you were unaware) and then jump to the NHL and have an immediate impact in the top six. Vancouver drafted him to be a center, he should perfect that position in a pro league and beef up. Once he does that he should be able to step straight into the NHL and keep a top-six roll, rather than being bounced around the line-up, like what would probably happen if he started next season with the team.

I agree with you in the sense that I'd like to see him spend a full season at center before making the jump to the NHL.

 

Where I disagree is with where he should be playing. I'd like to see him play a season at center for the Comets rather than spend another season in Sweden. I think that getting accustomed to the smaller ice surface will serve him well before making the jump. 

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11 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

I agree with you in the sense that I'd like to see him spend a full season at center before making the jump to the NHL.

 

Where I disagree is with where he should be playing. I'd like to see him play a season at center for the Comets rather than spend another season in Sweden. I think that getting accustomed to the smaller ice surface will serve him well before making the jump. 

SHL >>> AHL

 

Many, many players have made the jump from Europe straight to the NHL and dominated. The need to adapt to smaller ice / north american game theory is a fallacy. A good hockey player is a good hockey player no matter where they play. I'd rather have EP play a leading role at 1C in the SHL, where he will undoubtedly be playing with higher skilled players and against higher skilled competition. EP is a skilled player, he doesn't need to learn to grind it out in the A. That league is so choppy and dump / chase it can often be detrimental to skilled players. He has enough skill that the smaller ice shouldn't affect him at all. Think of all the greats who have come straight from Europe without ever even knowing what the AHL is.

Edited by dank.sinatra
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8 minutes ago, dank.sinatra said:

SHL >>> AHL

 

Many, many players have made the jump from Europe straight to the NHL and dominated. The need to adapt to smaller ice / north american game theory is a fallacy. A good hockey player is a good hockey player no matter where they play. I'd rather have EP play a leading role at 1C in the SHL, where he will undoubtedly be playing with higher skilled players and against higher skilled competition. EP is a skilled player, he doesn't need to learn to grind it out in the A. That league is so choppy and dump / chase it can often be detrimental to skilled players. He has enough skill that the smaller ice shouldn't affect him at all. Think of all the greats who have come straight from Europe without ever even knowing what the AHL is.

From a practical standpoint, he'll have less time to make decisions on the fly playing on a smaller ice surface, and I think experiencing that before hitting the NHL can only be good for him.  I'd still prefer he get a sniff of the North American game before making the jump. We know he has boatloads of skill, but like you said, the AHL is a grind, and I can't see him learning how to deal with the grind as anything but a positive for his development.

 

Not to mention putting him in the AHL gives us the option of calling him up.

Edited by 48MPHSlapShot
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5 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

From a practical standpoint, he'll have less time to make decisions on the fly playing on a smaller ice surface, and I think experiencing that before hitting the NHL can only be good for him.  I'd still prefer he get a sniff of the North American game before making the jump. We know he has boatloads of skill, but like you said, the AHL is a grind, and I can't see him learning how to deal with the grind as anything but a positive for his development.

 

Not to mention putting him in the AHL gives us the option of calling him up.

Have you seen him play? Swift decision making won't be a problem for him. He'll make the right play 9/10 times with 5 guys rapidly approaching him. The smaller ice surface shouldn't even affect his style of play since he is already so far ahead in his anticipation. Him and Boeser are the only prospects we've had since god knows when (the sedins?) who are skilled enough to jump straight into the top-six without learning "the grind". Personally, I see the AHL grind has something that could hurt is development. If he learns the AHL game of dump, chase, battle, shoot, and crash the net as the "correct-way" to play it could stifle his offensive creativity.

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