Elias Pettersson | #40 | C

[Dixon Ward]

Peter Forsberg had 28 points in 39 games in his draft plus 1 year in the SHL

Henrik Sedin had 47 points in 50 games

Zetterberg had 34 points in 32 games

W. Nylander had 21 points in 20 games

Alfredsson had 18 in 22

Sundin had 18 in 34 

 

This is not a pushover league.  Sundin and Forsberg had pretty good careers but put up pretty mediocre numbers in the year after their draft.

 

Let's not put the pressure on Petersson that he needs to be a point a game or better or he is a bust.  Just let him develop.

[Alexandre]

8 hours ago, Alflives said:

How long did it take the Twins to get (actually) strong enough to not get too easily knocked off the puck?  I remember their early years here, and (although they showed greatness at times) they were pretty weak.  I think Pettersson looks amazing!  In two or three years he will likely fill out his 6'2" frame, and push 190lbs.  I think JB landed a special player in Pettersson, but - much like the Twins - it will take a few years before he's strong enough to consistently put up big numbers.  I'd rather wait for a potential 100 point guy to develop, than get a 50 point guy right away - but that guy doesn't get much better. 

draft +7 years before the twins put up big numbers (just under ppg) and developed enough to merit consideration as more than 2nd liners. Even then they were still getting knocked down on their derriere. They still sometimes do. I agree, I think Pettersson will develop similarly to the Sedins. Similar weight ( around 190 lbs) and will probably be knocked around a bit for his first couple of years in the NHL any way. I do think Pettersson will fair better ( physicality wise) than the Sedins because he is faster and more elusive.

 

As for the big numbers, well I would rather guess on the conservative side and be pleasantly surprised. How does  greater than 60 points 7 years from now sound? Disappointing I know, but it is better than expecting more and sooner than getting frustrated and angry if he doesn't meet those expectations.

[Western Red]

Virtanen - Pettersson - Dahlen in 2 years could be a stellar line if Jake can fill the shoes. Jake nice and comfy on the left with a distracting presence.

[Alexandre]

1 hour ago, Western Red said:

Virtanen - Pettersson - Dahlen in 2 years could be a stellar line if Jake can fill the shoes. Jake nice and comfy on the left with a distracting presence.

Virtanen causing havoc and shooting from his off wing. Dhalen also shooting from his off wing on the other side and going to the net. Pettersson finding the open space and open winger. Two small but fast, slick Swedes and a big hard hitting Canadian. Classic Euro skill and North American grit. I am going to have nice dreams tonight.

[JamesB]

3 hours ago, Alexandre said:

draft +7 years before the twins put up big numbers (just under ppg) and developed enough to merit consideration as more than 2nd liners. Even then they were still getting knocked down on their derriere. They still sometimes do. I agree, I think Pettersson will develop similarly to the Sedins. Similar weight ( around 190 lbs) and will probably be knocked around a bit for his first couple of years in the NHL any way. I do think Pettersson will fair better ( physicality wise) than the Sedins because he is faster and more elusive.

 

As for the big numbers, well I would rather guess on the conservative side and be pleasantly surprised. How does  greater than 60 points 7 years from now sound? Disappointing I know, but it is better than expecting more and sooner than getting frustrated and angry if he doesn't meet those expectations.

Yes, it seems quite possible that Pettersson will have a developmental pattern similar to the Sedins. As a player of similarly high skill and similar stature he might take a while to reach his peak performance. Henrik's peak period stretched between age 25 (.91 PPG in 2005-06) and age 32 (.94 PPG in 2012-13). That is actually a pretty normal peak period for high end fowards, although it is not uncommon to get pretty close to that peak by age 23 or 24. 

 

But Henrik and Daniel were pretty good NHL players in their draft+2 seasons (their rookie years). Henrik had a PPG of 0.35 that year, which is a respectable 3rd line level. And it was up from there. Still, I agree that it makes no sense to hurry Pettersson as he needs to gain a lot of strength before he is ready. It would not be a surprise to see him in the NHL in his draft+2 year, and I am impatient enough to be hoping for that, but it might make sense to hold off until his draft+3 year (and maybe become the second Canuck to win a Calder trophy, joining Pavel Bure).

 

I agree that we don't want our expectations to get too high but, as you note, Pettersson is a faster skater than the Sedins (and I am guessing he will be better in the shootout  ). Pettersson looks like an excellent prospect at this stage. Like a lot of others I wanted and expected the Canucks to pick Glass at #5 overall, but I have warmed up to the Pettersson pick as Pettersson seems to have a higher ceiling, although Glass could be an impact player sooner.

[MoneypuckOverlord]

Top 10 in scoring in a men leauge as a 18 year old.  That's all I have to say.

[Hairy Kneel]

Page 50! 

[Alflives]

9 hours ago, Alexandre said:

draft +7 years before the twins put up big numbers (just under ppg) and developed enough to merit consideration as more than 2nd liners. Even then they were still getting knocked down on their derriere. They still sometimes do. I agree, I think Pettersson will develop similarly to the Sedins. Similar weight ( around 190 lbs) and will probably be knocked around a bit for his first couple of years in the NHL any way. I do think Pettersson will fair better ( physicality wise) than the Sedins because he is faster and more elusive.

 

As for the big numbers, well I would rather guess on the conservative side and be pleasantly surprised. How does  greater than 60 points 7 years from now sound? Disappointing I know, but it is better than expecting more and sooner than getting frustrated and angry if he doesn't meet those expectations.

I see Pettersson having elite vision and scoring (the kid attacks the net from all angles) so putting up points will be his forte.  That's why I would expect 80 + points.  Plus, the kid is responsible on the d side of the puck.  He contributes, even when not scoring, by being solid in his own end.  I just see us needing to wait for him to physically mature. (Kind of opposite to Virtanen who needed to emotionally mature.)  I could see Pettersson and Virtanen being excellent line mates.  

[aGENT]

10 hours ago, Alexandre said:

draft +7 years before the twins put up big numbers (just under ppg) and developed enough to merit consideration as more than 2nd liners. Even then they were still getting knocked down on their derriere. They still sometimes do. I agree, I think Pettersson will develop similarly to the Sedins. Similar weight ( around 190 lbs) and will probably be knocked around a bit for his first couple of years in the NHL any way. I do think Pettersson will fair better ( physicality wise) than the Sedins because he is faster and more elusive.

 

As for the big numbers, well I would rather guess on the conservative side and be pleasantly surprised. How does  greater than 60 points 7 years from now sound? Disappointing I know, but it is better than expecting more and sooner than getting frustrated and angry if he doesn't meet those expectations.

I agree people should temper their expectations, especially for the first few years. 

 

That said, he's a much different player coming in to a much different league. He's a much better skater (and more elusive), as you noted. He's also got the benefit of better training, nutrition etc which should give him a relative head start. And then there's the league. Today's game is far more conducive to smaller, speedy (and young) players. 

 

So while yes, nobody should be expecting 1ppg in the next few years, I think he'll have a relatively 'easier' and likely quicker adaption to pro than the twins did. 

Edited July 25, 2017 by J.R.

[timberz21]

19 hours ago, Dixon Ward said:

Peter Forsberg had 28 points in 39 games in his draft plus 1 year in the SHL

Henrik Sedin had 47 points in 50 games

Zetterberg had 34 points in 32 games

W. Nylander had 21 points in 20 games

Alfredsson had 18 in 22

Sundin had 18 in 34 

 

This is not a pushover league.  Sundin and Forsberg had pretty good careers but put up pretty mediocre numbers in the year after their draft.

 

Let's not put the pressure on Petersson that he needs to be a point a game or better or he is a bust.  Just let him develop.

Except for Nylander, I don't think the calibre of the SHL was the same back then.  With the KHL and more players coming to North American, I think Finnish and Swedish league's level has decreased over the years.  Marginal NHL players and AHL leftovers found some success in these league recently, which tells me the level of competition is not as high as it was.

[groovy]

On 2017-06-24 at 1:56 AM, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Even if he does fill out and gain some weight, chances are he'll never get close to 200 lbs. Maybe 180 lbs.

 

I worry about how well his game will translate to the NHL. You can have all the skill you want, but the body has to be able to transfer it.

I was playing as a 20 year old with similar height against men at about 165. Shortly after at about 180 and finally at 200. Today 220 but not game shape. This kid is 18! Give him a chance.

[Father Ryan]

I could easily see, by the 21-22 season, our top three lines looking like:

Gadjovich - Petersson - Dahlen

Baer - Horvat - Boeser

Virtanen - Gaudette - Lind

 

If they are all at or close to their ultimate potential, that makes for a pretty good top nine!

[PuckYa]

On 6/23/2017 at 4:56 PM, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Even if he does fill out and gain some weight, chances are he'll never get close to 200 lbs. Maybe 180 lbs.

 

I worry about how well his game will translate to the NHL. You can have all the skill you want, but the body has to be able to transfer it.

 

Pavel Daysyuk - drafted 160 lbs.  today 197 lbs.

https://www.nhl.com/redwings/news/hulls-help-propelled-datsyuk-to-new-heights/c-468232

He's not the same small, skinny-looking kid at 5-foot-10, 160 pounds that was passed over twice in the NHL Entry Draft and was finally picked 171st in 1998. He's now 5-11, 197. 

“I don't know if there is a player stronger on his skates than Pavel," Red Wings captain Nicklas Lidstrom said. "Opponents think they have him covered, and I've seen him continue to stickhandle with one hand and use his lower body strength to fight through the check and continue to go to the net.

 

 

Patrick Kane - drafted at 160 lbs.  today 177lbs.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/patrick_kane/

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=96554

 

Johnny Gudreau - 157 lbs. today.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=130893

 

Mitch Marner - 170 lbs today.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=161029

 

 

Elias Petterson - 

https://canucksarmy.com/2017/06/15/nation-network-2017-prospect-profiles-5-elias-pettersson/

While Pettersson has plenty of talents, he is lacking in two areas: his skating, while well above average, is not elite, and a growth spurt has left him tall but slight – he lacks pro-level strength and physicality. “He’s a pretty small player when you look at him,” Dahlen said of Pettersson. “You see he’s small and you think ‘whoa, how’s he gonna play’, and then when he goes on the ice, he’s so skilled, it doesn’t matter that he’s small, he can avoid tackles and hits so good, he’s really an amazing player and a big talent.”

Like all undersized players that go on to have successful careers, Pettersson has his ways of working around his deficiencies. He excels in a number of areas, including puckhandling and shooting, but his level of intelligence is probably his move attractive quality. “He processes information extremely fast, at speed, in traffic,” prospect guru Shane Malloy said to Ryan Biech earlier this week on the Game Time Decision podcast. “He moves fast, he thinks fast, the puck moves fast, he doesn’t linger with the puck. He understands that the game moves faster through the puck.”

Hockey IQ is often defined in many different ways, and that’s because there are many different facets to it. A high level of intelligence can afford a player a wealth of benefits. In the offensive zone, deception is a valuable skill, and it is rooted in understanding what opponents expect and how to take advantage of that. “He has a very good understanding of when to shoot in the offensive zone and what shot to use,” Malloy said. “He doesn’t telegraph his intentions or his shot, so he’ll do that quick wrister or a quick snap – he wants to get it away fast because he understands the value of making sure the goaltender is not set before he shoots.”

Pettersson also has the esteemed honour of leading all draft eligible players in SEAL adjusted scoring – better than Nolan Patrick, better than Nico Hischier, and everyone else on this list. Much of that is owed to being a near point-per-game player in a professional league, but Pettersson was also highly successful at even strength. He tallied 11 goals and 11 assists at 5-on-5, with his team scoring 66% of the goals when he was on the ice. He generated more than 3 points per hour in all situations, and had a point on nearly 40% of Timra’s goals this past season.

 

 

Size & weight is not the determining factor in an NHL player. If it was then every star player would be at least 6'2 & 200+ lbs. 

Many players play under that size & are better than the bigger players. 

Crosby, Marchand, Bergeron, Gudreau, Kane, Arvidsson, Johnson, Marner, Nylander, Pastranek, McDavid, Sedins, Datsyuk, Ronning, Rypien, etc.   

 

Also, people can be very strong even though they seem on the thinner side. If you follow the toughest guys in the world (UFC) you would see that many of the toughest guys are tall & slim not big & thick. (Bones Jones, Diaz, Anderson Silva, Royce Gracie, etc.)

 

Skill is the #1 determining factor.

 

[The Lock]

5 hours ago, timberz21 said:

Except for Nylander, I don't think the calibre of the SHL was the same back then.  With the KHL and more players coming to North American, I think Finnish and Swedish league's level has decreased over the years.  Marginal NHL players and AHL leftovers found some success in these league recently, which tells me the level of competition is not as high as it was.

Erm, you do realise there are a lot more higher end players out there yes? There's a reason why Canada has more trouble getting gold at the WJC these days and it's not because of our team. It's because the competition is getting more intense. KHL or not, I would argue the leagues over there, if anything, would be getting tougher based on how the international play has been going.

[Alexandre]

7 hours ago, J.R. said:

I agree people should temper their expectations, especially for the first few years. 

 

That said, he's a much different player coming in to a much different league. He's a much better skater (and more elusive), as you noted. He's also got the benefit of better training, nutrition etc which should give him a relative head start. And then there's the league. Today's game is far more conducive to smaller, speedy (and young) players. 

 

So while yes, nobody should be expecting 1ppg in the next few years, I think he'll have a relatively 'easier' and likely quicker adaption to pro than the twins did. 

I agree. After making my post I thought of these same points. Thanks for posting them. Pettersson is a different player from Henrik and Daniel and they will play in a different NHL. However, there are some similarities, specially their physique such that I thought Alf made a good point comparing his physical development and points progression with them.

 

I do hope Pettersson's point progression is faster than the Sedins but the main aim of my post was to reign in unrealistic expectations generated by the excitement of drafting a potential successor to Henrik. What better way to temper expectations for Pettersson's future progression than to compare it with Henrik's draft +7 years to reach first line status.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Alexandre

[Putgolzin]

40 minutes ago, Alexandre said:

I agree. After making my post I thought of these same points. Thanks for posting them. Pettersson is a different player from Henrik and Daniel and they will play in a different NHL. However, there are some similarities, specially their physique such that I thought Alf made a good point comparing his physical development and points progression with them.

 

I do hope Pettersson's point progression is faster than the Sedins but the main aim of my post was to reign in unrealistic expectations generated by the excitement of drafting a potential successor to Henrik. What better way to temper expectations for Pettersson's future production and role on the Canucks than to compare it with Henrik's draft +7 years to reach first line status.

thats a funny thought...if any of our players or prospects could become a Sedin in terms of career production (even Bo), we would take that deal and run.

at the same time, when it took them 7 years to reach that potential we would complain the whole time just like the first years of the Sedins ("oh man, if those idiots would give Fedor Fedorov HALF the chance they give the Sedins we'd finally have a real prospect in the system!") 

[Alexandre]

2 minutes ago, nzan said:

thats a funny thought...if any of our players or prospects could become a Sedin in terms of career production (even Bo), we would take that deal and run.

at the same time, when it took them 7 years to reach that potential we would complain the whole time just like the first years of the Sedins ("oh man, if those idiots would give Fedor Fedorov HALF the chance they give the Sedins we'd finally have a real prospect in the system!") 

Yeah, I worded that kind of funny. What I meant was what better way to temper expectations for Pettersson's future progression than to compare it with Henrik's draft +7 years to reach first line status. I will correct it.

[Dixon Ward]

7 hours ago, timberz21 said:

Except for Nylander, I don't think the calibre of the SHL was the same back then.  With the KHL and more players coming to North American, I think Finnish and Swedish league's level has decreased over the years.  Marginal NHL players and AHL leftovers found some success in these league recently, which tells me the level of competition is not as high as it was.

I am not sure if what you're saying is correct.  The level of hockey has increased across the board and so many more countries are producing quality players.  Denmark, Germany, Switzerland, etc..  Kopitar is from Slovenia.  The overall pool is much deeper so it stands to reason that each league would likely be better not worse.  I am not an expert nor am I saying you are wrong, just that there are arguments both ways.  

 

All I want is for Pettersson, who appears to have elite level skill, to develop without some assanine comments from cdcer's who didn't even see the games based on his ppg.  I think he will be a great player, Niklas Backstromesque.

[Putgolzin]

3 hours ago, Alexandre said:

Yeah, I worded that kind of funny. What I meant was what better way to temper expectations for Pettersson's future progression than to compare it with Henrik's draft +7 years to reach first line status. I will correct it.

nah, I got you fine.

i was just adding an addendum that if any of us had to relive the horror of a great prospect slowly turning into a top100 scorer, we would do the same thing that we did back then...call him a bust and complain for years before being like "virtanen, no i never said any crap about him, i always knew he was going to be a 75 point top line guy"...haha

[48MPHSlapShot]

9 hours ago, groovy said:

I was playing as a 20 year old with similar height against men at about 165. Shortly after at about 180 and finally at 200. Today 220 but not game shape. This kid is 18! Give him a chance.

 

5 hours ago, CoolCanucklehead said:

 

Pavel Daysyuk - drafted 160 lbs.  today 197 lbs.

https://www.nhl.com/redwings/news/hulls-help-propelled-datsyuk-to-new-heights/c-468232

He's not the same small, skinny-looking kid at 5-foot-10, 160 pounds that was passed over twice in the NHL Entry Draft and was finally picked 171st in 1998. He's now 5-11, 197. 

“I don't know if there is a player stronger on his skates than Pavel," Red Wings captain Nicklas Lidstrom said. "Opponents think they have him covered, and I've seen him continue to stickhandle with one hand and use his lower body strength to fight through the check and continue to go to the net.

 

 

Patrick Kane - drafted at 160 lbs.  today 177lbs.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/patrick_kane/

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=96554

 

Johnny Gudreau - 157 lbs. today.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=130893

 

Mitch Marner - 170 lbs today.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=161029

 

 

Elias Petterson - 

https://canucksarmy.com/2017/06/15/nation-network-2017-prospect-profiles-5-elias-pettersson/

While Pettersson has plenty of talents, he is lacking in two areas: his skating, while well above average, is not elite, and a growth spurt has left him tall but slight – he lacks pro-level strength and physicality. “He’s a pretty small player when you look at him,” Dahlen said of Pettersson. “You see he’s small and you think ‘whoa, how’s he gonna play’, and then when he goes on the ice, he’s so skilled, it doesn’t matter that he’s small, he can avoid tackles and hits so good, he’s really an amazing player and a big talent.”

Like all undersized players that go on to have successful careers, Pettersson has his ways of working around his deficiencies. He excels in a number of areas, including puckhandling and shooting, but his level of intelligence is probably his move attractive quality. “He processes information extremely fast, at speed, in traffic,” prospect guru Shane Malloy said to Ryan Biech earlier this week on the Game Time Decision podcast. “He moves fast, he thinks fast, the puck moves fast, he doesn’t linger with the puck. He understands that the game moves faster through the puck.”

Hockey IQ is often defined in many different ways, and that’s because there are many different facets to it. A high level of intelligence can afford a player a wealth of benefits. In the offensive zone, deception is a valuable skill, and it is rooted in understanding what opponents expect and how to take advantage of that. “He has a very good understanding of when to shoot in the offensive zone and what shot to use,” Malloy said. “He doesn’t telegraph his intentions or his shot, so he’ll do that quick wrister or a quick snap – he wants to get it away fast because he understands the value of making sure the goaltender is not set before he shoots.”

Pettersson also has the esteemed honour of leading all draft eligible players in SEAL adjusted scoring – better than Nolan Patrick, better than Nico Hischier, and everyone else on this list. Much of that is owed to being a near point-per-game player in a professional league, but Pettersson was also highly successful at even strength. He tallied 11 goals and 11 assists at 5-on-5, with his team scoring 66% of the goals when he was on the ice. He generated more than 3 points per hour in all situations, and had a point on nearly 40% of Timra’s goals this past season.

 

 

Size & weight is not the determining factor in an NHL player. If it was then every star player would be at least 6'2 & 200+ lbs. 

Many players play under that size & are better than the bigger players. 

Crosby, Marchand, Bergeron, Gudreau, Kane, Arvidsson, Johnson, Marner, Nylander, Pastranek, McDavid, Sedins, Datsyuk, Ronning, Rypien, etc.   

 

Also, people can be very strong even though they seem on the thinner side. If you follow the toughest guys in the world (UFC) you would see that many of the toughest guys are tall & slim not big & thick. (Bones Jones, Diaz, Anderson Silva, Royce Gracie, etc.)

 

Skill is the #1 determining factor.

 

I don't know why you guys are quoting me/singling me out. If you go back literally one page, you'll see that I've changed my tune on Pettersson....

 

 

On 7/23/2017 at 8:04 AM, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Yeah, like most people, I wasn't thrilled with the pick when it happened, but as time has gone on, and you can call this after-the-fact bias if you want, it really does seem like this was the correct fit. The kid might be the most skilled player in this draft, and the most skilled prospect we've had since drafting the twins. There would have been nothing wrong with picking a more "meat-and-potatoes" type player like Glass or Vilardi, but considering that we already have Horvat to fill that role, it might have been a tad redundant to go for the same type of player. Having Pettersson in the fold gives us a different type of center, make for a more dynamic and all around more balanced team going forward.