Elias Pettersson | #40 | C

[WonderTwinPowers]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

If EP can do what McDavid does, he could lose every draw.  It's a laughable argument to use the best player in the world as your example.

 

I have few doubts that with a cpl seasons of work with MM, he'll probably become a full time 1C, but from everything I saw this weekend and his lack of playing time at the position at the WJHC and in the SHL, he won't be taking many draws anytime soon

Travis Green is that you? 

 

Lots of star centers struggle with face offs and still play center. Get off the high horse.

 

https://puckbase.com/stats/faceoff-percentage

Edited September 10, 2018 by WonderTwinPowers

[stawns]

8 minutes ago, WonderTwinPowers said:

Travis Green is that you? 

 

Lots of star centers struggle with face offs and still play center. Get off the high horse.

 

https://puckbase.com/stats/faceoff-percentage

I'm not sure what you're using those stats to explain? As I said, if EP could come get to 35-40%, that would be acceptable to get some respectable time on the draw.

 

However, he did not play C in the SHL, did not play C at the WJHC and only won a cpl of draws against players who likely won't ever be NHL, or even pro, cmen.  What about his recent history suggests he's going to be able to go against the best faceoff guys in the world anytime soon?

 

Again, I'm pumped to see him in the NHL, I just don't think it will be at C this year, or even next year possibly.  

[48MPHSlapShot]

6 hours ago, Rollieo Del Fuego said:

Good god man...if you can't see the quality of our prospects....

Our prospects are great. I'm very very very very obviously not arguing that. What I am arguing is that prospects that aren't Boeser take time to develop. They're not there yet. They're aren't just going to step into the lineup and be able to play lights out right away, and it's unfair for anyone to expect all of them to make that significant of a difference right away. 

 

Just be content with the fact that we're going to get a few of these guys in the lineup this year and be content with the fact that we're going to get a very high pick next year, bringing us one step closer to finishing our rebuild. We don't need to be good yet.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Our prospects are great. I'm very very very very obviously not arguing that. What I am arguing is that prospects that aren't Boeser take time to develop. They're not there yet. They're aren't just going to step into the lineup and be able to play lights out right away, and it's unfair for anyone to expect all of them to make that significant of a difference right away. 

 

Just be content with the fact that we're going to get a few of these guys in the lineup this year and be content with the fact that we're going to get a very high pick next year, bringing us one step closer to finishing our rebuild. We don't need to be good yet.

Agreed.  If we draft top five in 2019, and get another Pettersson/Hughes level player, that makes our future core even better.

However, I think we are going to be better than bottom ten, and (maybe?) even be in the playoff mix come spring.

[Rollieo Del Fuego]

1 minute ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Our prospects are great. I'm very very very very obviously not arguing that. What I am arguing is that prospects that aren't Boeser take time to develop. They're not there yet. They're aren't just going to step into the lineup and be able to play lights out right away, and it's unfair for anyone to expect all of them to make that significant of a difference right away. 

 

Just be content with the fact that we're going to get a few of these guys in the lineup this year and be content with the fact that we're going to get a very high pick next year, bringing us one step closer to finishing our rebuild. We don't need to be good yet.

Last year we had Boeser...

 

This year we have EP who will excel to the same extent that BB did ...and ...we have a trio of players that will have an impact on our season when they get there chance....AG, JD and OJ

And we have a half dozen more that could well be as good as Schaller or Rousell or  MDZ, either ready or ready by the TDL.

 

It is going to be hard to hold on to a spot... if you are a bottom 6 forward that get's injured ...your out....MacEwen or Gadjovich or Jasek or Palmu are in.

If it's Baer or Granlund or Eriksson, then Gaudette or Dahlen  or Goldie step in...

 

We are insulated from injury and we will be a better team.

[TheHitman]

They could just have someone else in the faceoff circle then get the puck to Pettersson to lead the play going forward. 

[Rob_Zepp]

5 hours ago, aGENT said:

Because Boeser's spot on the PP is on Edler's back hand. Higher turnover/lower completion risk.

 

Had nothing to do with not liking passing to Boeser specifically. 

Now Edler can ignore both sides?   

[48MPHSlapShot]

17 minutes ago, Rollieo Del Fuego said:

Last year we had Boeser...

 

This year we have EP who will excel to the same extent that BB did ...and ...we have a trio of players that will have an impact on our season when they get there chance....AG, JD and OJ

And we have a half dozen more that could well be as good as Schaller or Rousell or  MDZ, either ready or ready by the TDL.

 

It is going to be hard to hold on to a spot... if you are a bottom 6 forward that get's injured ...your out....MacEwen or Gadjovich or Jasek or Palmu are in.

If it's Baer or Granlund or Eriksson, then Gaudette or Dahlen  or Goldie step in...

 

We are insulated from injury and we will be a better team.

I'm not convinced Pettersson is able to do what Boeser did right away. We have to keep in mind that Pettersson is still going to have to adjust to the smaller ice. While he seems to be doing that now, going up against NHL players is a different story. Also important to keep in mind that Boeser joined the team in his draft + 3 season, while Pettersson will be joining the team in his draft + 2 season. That does make a difference. Also important to note that Pettersson will likely be jumping around different positions. Playing some center and some wing. Boeser never had to deal with that. 

 

I think Pettersson will still have a great rookie season, but I don't think he'll put up the same PPG as Boeser did. Eventually? Absolutely, but I think there are just too many things working against him in that regard right now. Happy to be wrong though.

 

Yes, our depth is better, but even with that, we lost 150 points between the twins and Vanek. Other than Pettersson, I don't see any of our prospects stepping in and making a significant dent in that number right away. Next year, maybe, but it's a hell of a thing to ask right now.

[Kootenay Gold]

1 hour ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Yes, our depth is better, but even with that, we lost 150 points between the twins and Vanek. Other than Pettersson, I don't see any of our prospects stepping in and making a significant dent in that number right away. Next year, maybe, but it's a hell of a thing to ask right now.

I tend to agree that our goals for may take a bit of a dip but on the flip side of that I think our goals against will be much improved. I greatly admired the Sedin's and have a lot of respect for what they accomplished in their prime but these last few years have been difficult to watch as the the slow regression in their game became more of an issue. They were never the most fleet of foot and that became more and more evident as the seasons wore on. Many times when they lost possession in the offensive zone they were unable to come back with speed and back check effectively. This left our D men out manned and in a difficult situation. I expect the likes of Pettersson and Gaudette, because of their skating, will improve the teams overall ability to effectively back check and break up the other teams rush. We saw some of that already in the young stars tournament and hopefully that continues on into the preseason and beyond. We were the 3rd worst team in goals against  at 264 and if we can improve on that by say 20 to 25 less goals against; the expected drop off in the goals for will be much less significant.

Edited September 11, 2018 by Kootenay Gold
punctuation and clarity

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, TheHitman said:

They could just have someone else in the faceoff circle then get the puck to Pettersson to lead the play going forward. 

I could actually see them occasionally send out Sutter/Horvat to win the draw with Pettersson starting on RW/as backup in case they get waived. As soon as we have solid possession, Horvat/Sutter changes for Pettersson's 'usual' RW and Pettersson goes back to C.

[Putgolzin]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

He compared EPs issues with faceoffs with McDavids and used it as an example to show why EP should play C in the NHL.  It's a ridiculous comparison.

 

I'll be thrilled if EP can get to the 35-40% mark and, at least, play at C a bit.  But if he's losing 70-75% of his draws, I have a very happy d time seeing him playing C at all 

Nope, the poster in question literally began by stating he agreed with you. He then added to it by giving an example of where poor faceoff ability has produced an opposite result.

As a note, I agree with you too. 

 

The only reason I’m taking issue is because this flow of argumentation has always bugged me especially on CDC.

It goes like this:

- We shouldn’t have drafted Jordan Schroeder, a small guy like that can’t make it in the NHL

- Martin St. Louis says hi

- Please don’t compare Schroeder to St. Louis, that’s a ridiculous comparison. One is a newb and the other is a star.

 

But it’s not a comparison between Schroeder and St. Louis. It’s a comparison between St. Louis and the statement that a small guy can’t make it - which shows the statement to be untrue.

[HorvatToBaertschi]

23 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

If a Boeser or Horvat goes down, which both did last season, I have my doubts that any of those guys are going to be able to jump in and take on the role that one of those two guys plays for any period of time. Can't just throw rookies in and expect them to have success right off the bat. Furthermore, even if our depth is better, we've still lost 3 legitimate top 6 forwards in the Sedin twins and Vanek and we've replaced them with one top 6 in Pettersson and a few bottom 6 free agents. Depth doesn't = quality.

Of course if all our best players go down, we go down. Every nhl team is like that. Take away crosby and malkin and pittsburgh crumbles. Ovechkin ans backstrom washington crumbles. Stamkos and Kucherov, Tampa crumbles. We just have the depth now to handle it much better than last year is all I’m saying.

[cory40]

5 hours ago, stawns said:

I agree completely, but he just went through a weekend of faceoffs against the easiest competition he'll face going fwd.

 

It's not a shot or criticism of EP, he had an amazing weekend and I'm excited to see him play against NHL'ers.  But, faceoffs are, despite what some are trying to convince themselves of, a very big deal for cmen.

The second game EP looked way better at center especially at not losing the face off directly.

[SamJamIam]

5 hours ago, stawns said:

I'm not sure what you're using those stats to explain? As I said, if EP could come get to 35-40%, that would be acceptable to get some respectable time on the draw.

 

However, he did not play C in the SHL, did not play C at the WJHC and only won a cpl of draws against players who likely won't ever be NHL, or even pro, cmen.  What about his recent history suggests he's going to be able to go against the best faceoff guys in the world anytime soon?

 

Again, I'm pumped to see him in the NHL, I just don't think it will be at C this year, or even next year possibly.  

He played centre in the SHL for a good chunk of the season, just not to start.  Once injuries began he slotted in to play C.  Not surprising since he played on the first line of a stacked SHL team.  If you have a good, veteran centreman, you're going to make sure he takes draws.  Particularly when his biggest contribution to offense is just getting it to the kid that scores nonstop.  Even when playing wing, Elias played much more like a centre driving play and distributing the puck from the middle of the ice.

[smokes]

I don't care if Elias loses his draws this year as long as he gets better and better as he goes along. Sure he will lose a lot of faceoffs now but wait till he plays a few years, I'm sure with his compete level, he'll make himself good. Then when the team is actually competitive he'll be able to do well on the dot. As for now, let him lose the draw and make him learn puck retrieval while he's at it. It'll motivate him to get better at it.

[cory40]

18 hours ago, Ray_Cathode said:

Two of those goals against were with Pettersson and Dahlen on the ice.  They couldn’t get the puck out of our end, you can’t just blame the D for that, getting the puck out is a six man job.  On one of those goals Pettersson turned over the puck at the blue line - how is that the D’s fault, the other was when Pettersson didn’t pick up his coverage - that is not the D’s fault either.  Pettersson owned up to that, which means he is focussed on being a 200 foot player, and that is good, but it doesn’t look at this point that he is entirely ready for the show defensively.  Gaudette, in contrast, does look ready in that regard, don’t be too surprised if Gaudette makes the team to start, and that Pettersson and Dahlen might need some work in Utica.  I’m saying that will be the case, we’ll have to see - the coming pre-season games will tell a lot.

 

i am really anxious to be moving forward with the young guys - but when they are well prepared.  I would like to see their odds of early success maximized, and that might mean some games in Utica.  Boeser and Gaudette both stayed an extra year in College, and it shows in the completeness of their games.

It was a game where EP didn't want to get hurt. He valued it like shinny hockey at best. He probably only skated once in the entire contest and that's about it. Can't blame a top end prospect for that, McDavid sat out game two in the tournament to avoid injury. Guaranteed his agent said don't bust your but till it matters. And still looked like the best player out their at time.

[cuporbust]

16 hours ago, stawns said:

He didn't get better in the dot in the second game, despite people trying to convince themselves he did.  If he starts at C this season, he'll spend the bulk of his time chasing possession.  Let him play W with a cman who can win the puck.

Nasim kadri , Dylan Larkin , Henrik zetterberg,  Henrik Sedin . 

 

What do they all have in common ? Were not , or are not great faceoff centres.  

 

Hank was 46% last year for god sakes . It is a huge plus to be great at it , but there is allot more to it then just that . Jack eichel and Connor Mcdavid were 99 and 98 in the league in that department respectively.  Both 41 % 

Edited September 11, 2018 by cuporbust

[ForzaTikare]

6 hours ago, stawns said:

I'm not sure what you're using those stats to explain? As I said, if EP could come get to 35-40%, that would be acceptable to get some respectable time on the draw.

 

However, he did not play C in the SHL, did not play C at the WJHC and only won a cpl of draws against players who likely won't ever be NHL, or even pro, cmen.  What about his recent history suggests he's going to be able to go against the best faceoff guys in the world anytime soon?

 

Again, I'm pumped to see him in the NHL, I just don't think it will be at C this year, or even next year possibly.  

He had a 5 Game trial in the middle of the season as 2C, he kept his spot all the way to their signing of Dennis Rasmussen who is a whole time C, therefore it was best for the team that EP went back to The wing.. He didnt play bad in any way even though his FO% were around 42 in these games he scored almost 1,5PPG and his linemates almost tripled their production in those games 

Edited September 11, 2018 by ForzaTikare

[HorvatToBaertschi]

7 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Our prospects are great. I'm very very very very obviously not arguing that. What I am arguing is that prospects that aren't Boeser take time to develop. They're not there yet. They're aren't just going to step into the lineup and be able to play lights out right away, and it's unfair for anyone to expect all of them to make that significant of a difference right away. 

 

Just be content with the fact that we're going to get a few of these guys in the lineup this year and be content with the fact that we're going to get a very high pick next year, bringing us one step closer to finishing our rebuild. We don't need to be good yet.

The thing is that EP is more of a blue chip prospect than Boeser was (who was a blue cip prospect himself). That’s not a knock on Boeser, who is clearly an all star and one if the best wingers in the game today already. EP should have high expectations, as much if not more than Boeser had. Boeser knocked our socks off, EP will do the same, if not more. 

[aGENT]

9 hours ago, cuporbust said:

Nasim kadri , Dylan Larkin , Henrik zetterberg,  Henrik Sedin . 

 

What do they all have in common ? Were not , or are not great faceoff centres.  

 

Hank was 46% last year for god sakes . It is a huge plus to be great at it , but there is allot more to it then just that . Jack eichel and Connor Mcdavid were 99 and 98 in the league in that department respectively.  Both 41 % 

Yeah I'd say that's likely where the threshold lies...somewhere in the low 40% region. So long as he's able to be at/above that, IMO he's fine. We'll see how he does (or perhaps more importantly, how he trends) over camp