Kole Lind | RW

[RetroCanuck]

1 minute ago, shad0w4life said:

Since Boucher and Baer have been out of line up Lind went from 1 ppg to

 

Nov 1 - 0 Pts

Nov 2 - 0 pts

Nov 6 - 0 pts

Nov 8 - 1A on pp

Nov 9 - 0 pts

Nov 11 - 0 Pts

Haven't watch so can't speak directly too that, but I have heard he has deferred to Veterans so far that have been producing instead of shooting himself. I believe his shot rate per game is only 1.5.

 

Keep in mind he's still learning and had a rough year last year that would have hurt his confidence. Also its not like all the players are playing well down there currently, guys like MacEwen are also really struggling to put pucks in the net as well. 

[shad0w4life]

2 minutes ago, RetroCanuck said:

Haven't watch so can't speak directly too that, but I have heard he has deferred to Veterans so far that have been producing instead of shooting himself. I believe his shot rate per game is only 1.5.

 

Keep in mind he's still learning and had a rough year last year that would have hurt his confidence. Also its not like all the players are playing well down there currently, guys like MacEwen are also really struggling to put pucks in the net as well. 

I'm totally rooting for the kid, and Jasek and NG etc. I really like Jasek

 

This is purely about making about about how poor the development is in Utica

 

Heck look at Palmu in Liiga this year, that kid is on a tear

Dhalen as well, even though he's no longer our prospect.

[WeneedLumme]

40 minutes ago, shad0w4life said:

I'm totally rooting for the kid, and Jasek and NG etc. I really like Jasek

 

This is purely about making about about how poor the development is in Utica

 

Heck look at Palmu in Liiga this year, that kid is on a tear

Dhalen as well, even though he's no longer our prospect.

Always a pleasure to read such well thought out and carefully written posts. Lol.

[Fred65]

13 hours ago, theo5789 said:

Most young players in the AHL are. That "fact" doesn't mean that Utica isn't developing their players, so really is meaningless in this conversation. Some players are simply good in the AHL and can't put it together at the NHL level. Doesn't mean young players that are currently behind them (strictly on points which doesn't tell the whole picture) are not capable of becoming NHLers.

 

The other fact is that Lind has improved on last season which means he has improved and thus developed further (and currently 3rd in team scoring). Brisebois has progressed nicely. DiPietro has looked decent. The fact that Jasek is even on the radar right now is a testament for a long shot 6th round pick. Gadjovich looked to have a similar growth to Lind before getting hurt. MacEwen looks like he could crack the roster sooner than later. This all goes against all the naysayers towards Utica not being able to develop.

I think we all need to seperate the difference between desire and fact. I haven't seen Utica play this season but when a number of the vets were lost from the working roster it's apparent that Lind's stats have fallen of rather dramatically. I acknowledge that, other make excuses. I always remember year ago when Mogiliny told Pat Quinn I need better players to play alongside, Quinn told him your job is to make others around you better, not the reverse 

[theo5789]

25 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

I think we all need to seperate the difference between desire and fact. I haven't seen Utica play this season but when a number of the vets were lost from the working roster it's apparent that Lind's stats have fallen of rather dramatically. I acknowledge that, other make excuses. I always remember year ago when Mogiliny told Pat Quinn I need better players to play alongside, Quinn told him your job is to make others around you better, not the reverse 

I concur. Mogilny was a superstar player at the NHL level at that point already. Lind is 2nd pro season recently turned 21 year old that had a harsh learning 1st season. I don't know what your expectations are for Lind and while I hope he exceeds any expectations, the reality is he's a young guy in a pro League. He's 3rd in team scoring and maybe he benefitted from being behind veterans rather than being the guy just yet, but that's not a knock on Utica's development. He was finding another gear at the end of last season and he started out strong and will be continue to learn and develop into a player hopefully that can find another level. The fact is he has improved since last season, so I don't know how progression and development is ignored here. He's nowhere near a final product yet, so I don't know what type of player you're desiring 15 games into his 2nd pro year.

[Fred65]

5 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

I concur. Mogilny was a superstar player at the NHL level at that point already. Lind is 2nd pro season recently turned 21 year old that had a harsh learning 1st season. I don't know what your expectations are for Lind and while I hope he exceeds any expectations, the reality is he's a young guy in a pro League. He's 3rd in team scoring and maybe he benefitted from being behind veterans rather than being the guy just yet, but that's not a knock on Utica's development. He was finding another gear at the end of last season and he started out strong and will be continue to learn and develop into a player hopefully that can find another level. The fact is he has improved since last season, so I don't know how progression and development is ignored here. He's nowhere near a final product yet, so I don't know what type of player you're desiring 15 games into his 2nd pro year.

The point is not  to compare Mogiliny with Lind but the characteristics to become an NHL player if you get my drift ie Lind can't be dependent on others skills as a way to reach the NHL

[Dats hockey]

On 11/9/2019 at 11:14 PM, theo5789 said:

But remember when Utica didn't know how to develop prospects?

As a wise man once said “They haven’t done sh*t”

[Dats hockey]

On 11/10/2019 at 9:32 AM, shad0w4life said:

Uh

 

Went from 1st line potential to JV and then up slightly

 

Utica had a 4 game loss streak where they couldn't score for 2 games and barely won in  OT last night due to their Vets being out of line up.

 

They are doing terrible job of developing prospects, Lind, Jasek etc etc have been invisible without guys like Boucher in line up and Comets can't win

There are reason why we are signing UFAs and not graduating people from Utica.

[Fred65]

6 minutes ago, Dats hockey said:

There are reason why we are signing UFAs and not graduating people from Utica.

I've never checked this out but I have a sneaking suspicion that the best players we have are from either the EU or the NCAA, not all but the majority. Horvat didn't spend time in Utica, Demko yes, after a career in the NCAA but goalies have specific coaches for their development

[theo5789]

27 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

The point is not  to compare Mogiliny with Lind but the characteristics to become an NHL player if you get my drift ie Lind can't be dependent on others skills as a way to reach the NHL

Sure, but to expect Lind to be there already seems unrealistic. He has offensive potential, but he's only just started his 2nd pro year. Doesn't seem to be a concern yet and Utica would continue to work with him to try to get him there. He's already much better than last year, so that's a sign of development.

[theo5789]

42 minutes ago, Dats hockey said:

As a wise man once said “They haven’t done sh*t”

Disagree

[Gurn]

59 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Horvat didn't spend time in Utica,

 

 

2014-2015      5 games in Utica.

 

If you are going to moan and groan please check your facts first.    mmmmkay?

 

Do you realize there is a difference between first round picks and all the other rounds?

[Dats hockey]

58 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

I've never checked this out but I have a sneaking suspicion that the best players we have are from either the EU or the NCAA, not all but the majority. Horvat didn't spend time in Utica, Demko yes, after a career in the NCAA but goalies have specific coaches for their development

The only person to spend a good bit of time A part of the comets other than our goalies is Jake Virtanen. You could argue Baer but you could easily argue against it

[Fred65]

Just now, gurn said:

 

 

2014-2015      5 games in Utica.

 

If you are going to moan and groan please check your facts first.    mmmmkay?

 

Do you realize there is a difference between first round picks and all the other rounds?

C'on youre splitting hairs, 5 game whoopie do. As you KNOW I was comparing development, Utica  did noy feature in Horvats development in his …. wait for this 5 games in Utica

[Dats hockey]

1 minute ago, gurn said:

 

 

2014-2015      5 games in Utica.

 

If you are going to moan and groan please check your facts first.    mmmmkay?

 

Do you realize there is a difference between first round picks and all the other rounds?

Yeah but you eventually need some of your picks outside of the first round going through your farm system to be successful. And the lack of success coming out of Utica translating to the NHL is disheartening 

[Gurn]

5 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

C'on youre splitting hairs, 5 game whoopie do. As you KNOW I was comparing development, Utica  did noy feature in Horvats development in his …. wait for this 5 games in Utica

More than once you have been using false data. Again if you want to moan and groan start by using proper facts.

[Fred65]

1 minute ago, Dats hockey said:

The only person to spend a good bit of time A part of the comets other than our goalies is Jake Virtanen. You could argue Baer but you could easily argue against it

Yep and look how that's  turned out.    Boeser, Pettersson, Hughes, Stecher, Tanev, Gaudette, Demko  

[shad0w4life]

5 hours ago, WeneedLumme said:

Always a pleasure to read such well thought out and carefully written posts. Lol.

Auto correct on phone where screen gets cut off from iPhones horrible keyboard

[theo5789]

3 hours ago, Dats hockey said:

There are reason why we are signing UFAs and not graduating people from Utica.

Yeah that reason is to allow for the prospects to develop properly rather than be rushed. It also allows for more depth as these players can get callups and see their progress rather than be thrown to the wolves. In a couple of years when we are hitting critical mass with our drafted talent coming into the system, we will see more graduates as call ups and fighting for regular spots as UFA contracts end. This doesn't mean we stop looking at UFA (or trades) either because sometimes you find something else the team may be looking for through their route.

[theo5789]

2 hours ago, Dats hockey said:

The only person to spend a good bit of time A part of the comets other than our goalies is Jake Virtanen. You could argue Baer but you could easily argue against it

So we have Demko and Virtanen and a few players that have spent spot time in Utica. We also have had guys like Sautner and Brisebois who have been call ups, MacEwen as well.

 

We have just started restocking the cupboards (that were quite bare) and development takes time. Not everyone makes that leap right away. I doubt you'd find many teams in our current position to be pumping out players from the AHL. Some of the top teams do simply because their teams have had good depth to be able to hold decent players in the AHL to develop longer. This is the point where we want to get to starting in a couple years time. Patience is key and we need to trust the process. Ferland said that is something he wishes he told his younger self because development does take time for some players.