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Kole Lind | RW

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Just now, aGENT said:

Completely. Different. Players.

Man that's an insightful well worded response. He's shown some improvement, which is good, but is a long way from a call up 

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36 minutes ago, TGT68 said:

I still say he has another gear yet.  Wait until he puts another summer in and see.  Stronger, faster, better.  

Ya I think we are already seeing it. Kole is just getting better as the year goes on. I’m hoping the comets go on a long playoff run and if Lind is a big part of it I think he would be an option next year. For Vancouver I think implementing 1-2 rookies a year is ideal and Lind seems to be the most ready of all the forwards. I don’t see Schaller or Sutter being fits moving forward. With Pearson and Virtanen establishing themselves as locks on this team I could see see one open spot in the top 9 next season.

 

Boeser Petterson Miller

Eriksson Horvat Pearson

Virtanen Gaudette Lind

Roussel Beagle Leivo

 

That leaves out: Schaller Sutter Motte

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14 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Why both put up good number which is what most fans judge a players ability on but can't take the next step. They're tweeners. Lind has not reached the dizzy heights of Bouchard or even Bailey Bailey who has played 63 NHL games and scored 5+4. Lind has certainly shown improvement according to Utica Cory. But is still has a way to go

Are you just looking at numbers? I feel like your insight is extremely shallow and constantly negative. 

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11 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Man that's an insightful well worded response. He's shown some improvement, which is good, but is a long way from a call up 

Did I say he was? Or Lind? You can stop talking out of your arse, for me, any time. I have zero desire to play your straw man games of points I never even made or argued.

 

My points, to summarize for you:

 

-Utica does not have a 'problem' developing players. They've simply not had much of a pool to develop until very recently. You continue to ignore that reality to frame that silly narrative.

 

-Boucher being a 'tweener' has zero bearing on whether or not Bailey (or Lind, whom I never even mentioned pertaining to that comment) will or won't be tweeners themselves. They're entire different players. Bailey has an entirely different skill set  from Boucher. Bailey's size especially and elite speed are far more translatable to the NHL and he's also far more likely to translate to a more attainable, bottom 6 role than Boucher is as a likely 'top 6 or bust'. Will he? Who knows...? Thus far he's had trouble translating his game to the NHL level. Could be a late bloomer, could be a tweener. Time will tell and it has zip to do with Boucher.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Completely. Different. Players.

You're so abrasive sometimes lol.

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2 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

You're so abrasive sometimes lol.

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Frankly I get fed up with posters who see ( in this case Lind ) put up a few points in the AHL and suddenly fans go full Monty on his future in the NHL. I offer Boucher and Bailey as players who have looked good but can't take the next step. Percentage wise that is likely  projectory.   The AHL is full of players on the cusp, actually graduated few and far between

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8 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Frankly I get fed up with posters who see ( in this case Lind ) put up a few points in the AHL and suddenly fans go full Monty on his future in the NHL. I offer Boucher and Bailey as players who have looked good but can't take the next step. Percentage wise that is likely  projectory.   The AHL is full of players on the cusp, actually graduated few and far between

So never get excited about any prospects?

 

He’s outpacing Kesler at the same age and plays a similar abrasive style. 
 

There’s no reason fans shouldn’t be optimistic about this guy.
 

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16 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Why both put up good number which is what most fans judge a players ability on but can't take the next step. They're tweeners. Lind has not reached the dizzy heights of Bouchard or even Bailey Bailey who has played 63 NHL games and scored 5+4. Lind has certainly shown improvement according to Utica Cory. But is still has a way to go

I don't think that verterans 26yr old Bouchard and 24yr old Bailey (who is in his first season with Utica) are good examples for the Comets player development program.  Both players failed to take 'the next step' while playing for other teams, where their development age was at its prime.  Perhaps these players will one day make the NHL, but their chances are becoming slimmer as each season slides by.

 

On the other hand, Lind is just 21yrs (prime time for developing prospects) and is obviously still developing as a player; which his improvement implies.  This is the sort of player that Utica's development program should be judged by. 

 

Any player that joins the Comets as a rookie becomes a part of the developing program.  The rest are vets, who have pretty much completed their development elsewhere.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, DeNiro said:

So never get excited about any prospects?

 

He’s outpacing Kesler at the same age and plays a similar abrasive style. 
 

There’s no reason fans shouldn’t be optimistic about this guy.
 

The good news for Kesler is he came through the NCAA ( Ohio state if I recall ) IMO there's not a long list of players coming from Utica to Vcr. The best prospect chnace we have are likely Rathbone, Rafferty, Hoglander and Podkolzn. We should be hopeful of Lind but if we're brutally honest the odds are stacked against him. Tryamkin avoided the AHL for good reason. By the way Bouchard & Bailey weren't always 26 & 24 once they too were 21once upon a time. Bouchard has been waring Utica colours since 2016 and Bailey has already played for 2 NHL teams and played 63 games. It's fingers crossed time and again if we're honest Lind has a ways to go  

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Yup, it's one thing to be a complete homer, but other posters don't have to swing to the far negative side of the scale to balance that out. Sure, improved play in the AHL proves very little in the NHL, but why not be hopeful even if you are being realistic? Lind is young and has made great strides so let's see what another year does.

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9 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

The good news for Kesler is he came through the NCAA ( Ohio state if I recall ) IMO there's not a long list of players coming from Utica to Vcr. The best prospect chnace we have are likely Rathbone, Rafferty, Hoglander and Podkolzn. We should be hopeful of Lind but if we're brutally honest the odds are stacked against him. Tryamkin avoided the AHL for good reason. By the way Bouchard & Bailey weren't always 26 & 24 once they too were 21once upon a time. Bouchard has been waring Utica colours since 2016 and Bailey has already played for 2 NHL teams and played 63 games. It's fingers crossed time and again if we're honest Lind has a ways to go  

Kesler played one year in the NCAA. His time in the AHL was arguably more formative. In the end, the extra time was just that, time to develop. While there may be an as yet mentioned expiry date on Lind's NHL chances, there's plenty of time before that happens.

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11 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

The good news for Kesler is he came through the NCAA ( Ohio state if I recall ) IMO there's not a long list of players coming from Utica to Vcr. The best prospect chnace we have are likely Rathbone, Rafferty, Hoglander and Podkolzn. We should be hopeful of Lind but if we're brutally honest the odds are stacked against him. Tryamkin avoided the AHL for good reason. By the way Bouchard & Bailey weren't always 26 & 24 once they too were 21once upon a time. Bouchard has been waring Utica colours since 2016 and Bailey has already played for 2 NHL teams and played 63 games. It's fingers crossed time and again if we're honest Lind has a ways to go  

Those players were obviously not able to adapt their games enough for coaches to give them a spot. Simply putting up big points is not enough for players to make the jump.

 

From the looks of it Lind has already made big improvements in his game after one offseason. If he continues to trend the right way, play aggressive, and work on his two way game he’ll get his shot. If he’s coach able no reason to think he won’t get there.

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1 minute ago, DeNiro said:

 

From the looks of it Lind has already made big improvements in his game after one offseason.

This, and essentially this alone, is why I'm cautiously optimistic about Lind's development.   Forget point totals, he looks, albeit from my limited observations,  like a completely different player (in a good way), from last season. 

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The jump from juniors to the AHL, varies for different players cause it is mostly, a mental game that one has to overcome.  Iam still hopeful, that he can become a solid member of the core because of the way he has responded, after a season of adjustments last year.  Regardless, he still has to earn his way into the big club despite his current success.

Edited by ShawnAntoski

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1 hour ago, DeNiro said:

Those players were obviously not able to adapt their games enough for coaches to give them a spot. Simply putting up big points is not enough for players to make the jump.

 

From the looks of it Lind has already made big improvements in his game after one offseason. If he continues to trend the right way, play aggressive, and work on his two way game he’ll get his shot. If he’s coach able no reason to think he won’t get there.

I'd prefer to reserve judgement. I see the book makers odds and I'm not willing to mortgage my house of Lind's likelihood of success in the NHL. They're long odds at this time. I've never seen him play regularly and I'd be foolish to think other wise IMO

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4 hours ago, Fred65 said:

Law of averages that one pops through. I still maintain that we get better success with development in the NCAA. IMO Lind still has to get better, true he is pulling away from the pack, but then again so to is Bailey ….  again …. but can't quite make the NHL ( can we say Boucher ) 

Lind is a major success story this far in terms of improvement. But look at players like Juolevi, Jasek, Gadjovich, Brisebois, etc. Have they not all improved? That's called development, something critics suggested that Utica was incapable of simply because a few players weren't instant stars as soon as they stepped on the ice in the AHL and a couple of guys that didn't want to tough it out.

 

We are only just starting to have enough depth to force players to steep longer and have prospects that are decent enough to develop through our system as well (we will soon see the likes of Woo, Focht, Keppen, Lockwood, etc also go through the system).

 

Players like Boucher and Bailey are AHL veterans and they hold a different standard than those who are 20 or so entering their first season into the league. There are certainly players that don't have as good numbers as the AHL vets and perform better because it isn't linear in that context. Lind is performing almost as well as players 3-5 years older than him.

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3 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

Lind is a major success story this far in terms of improvement. But look at players like Juolevi, Jasek, Gadjovich, Brisebois, etc. Have they not all improved? That's called development, something critics suggested that Utica was incapable of simply because a few players weren't instant stars as soon as they stepped on the ice in the AHL and a couple of guys that didn't want to tough it out.

 

We are only just starting to have enough depth to force players to steep longer and have prospects that are decent enough to develop through our system as well (we will soon see the likes of Woo, Focht, Keppen, Lockwood, etc also go through the system).

 

Players like Boucher and Bailey are AHL veterans and they hold a different standard than those who are 20 or so entering their first season into the league. There are certainly players that don't have as good numbers as the AHL vets and perform better because it isn't linear in that context. Lind is performing almost as well as players 3-5 years older than him.

what about this guy hey?  Up to 11 goals now.

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6 minutes ago, stawns said:

what about this guy hey?  Up to 11 goals now.

Apparently law of averages is what is making players successful, not development.

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Fred’s approach is actuarial in nature. My guess is that it stifles his enjoyment of the process of player development. Where many of us see hope and fall into an almost blind optimism, he feels a need to temper that emotion with rational analysis.


I, for one, find that his views give us a balance on these boards and I appreciate that. And I think secretly, when he lets his guard down, his rose coloured glasses are just as rose coloured as the rest of us! I’m not mortgaging my house either Fred, but it doesn’t cost anything to dream!

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