westcoastsniper Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 minute ago, Alflives said: Sounds like Palmu didn't get that teaching/coaching while playing in Utica though. Maybe we are missing something in the coaching/teaching of our young prospects? Green seemed like a good coach to teach younger players, he got the likes of Goldobin, Virtanen to be NHLers. We need someone like him in Utica. Also as far as I remember, we tried to get another coach who eventually got hired by another team, thus leaving us with the 2nd choice in cull. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroCanuck Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, Alflives said: Sounds like Palmu didn't get that teaching/coaching while playing in Utica though. Maybe we are missing something in the coaching/teaching of our young prospects? My issue is going off what Johnson said and Palmu has said, that one can't improve those aspects of the game in practice. " the wall play, the compete and physicality " comes from playing decent minutes in the game and then looking at how you improve in those areas. The current group down there is to concerned with making playoffs and not about development. Which is really going to hurt our future players. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, Alflives said: Sounds like Palmu didn't get that teaching/coaching while playing in Utica though. Maybe we are missing something in the coaching/teaching of our young prospects? It's hard to say. His ice time is close to the lowest on the team, which indicates that he wasn't ready to be playing at that level. Just because he wasn't playing many games, I would think that he was still benefiting from the practices and certainly had +++ time in the weight room. The AHL is a developmental league, but the teams also have a responsibility towards their paying fans and owners. Developing a winning environment is important for the players, owners and fans. It looks to me that perhaps they should have moved Petrus earlier on. Palmu is a long shot to ever play in the NHL (6th round picks usually are). He has an uphill battle for sure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kootenay Gold Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 6 minutes ago, westcoastsniper said: Green seemed like a good coach to teach younger players, he got the likes of Goldobin, Virtanen to be NHLers. We need someone like him in Utica. Also as far as I remember, we tried to get another coach who eventually got hired by another team, thus leaving us with the 2nd choice in cull. There was more than one coach ahead of him in the selection process. If memory serves me right he was the 4th or 5th in line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great 8 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 17 minutes ago, higgyfan said: It's hard to say. His ice time is close to the lowest on the team, which indicates that he wasn't ready to be playing at that level. Just because he wasn't playing many games, I would think that he was still benefiting from the practices and certainly had +++ time in the weight room. The AHL is a developmental league, but the teams also have a responsibility towards their paying fans and owners. Developing a winning environment is important for the players, owners and fans. It looks to me that perhaps they should have moved Petrus earlier on. Palmu is a long shot to ever play in the NHL (6th round picks usually are). He has an uphill battle for sure. The thing with Palmu is that he’s very much like virtanen. Where physically he has the strength to play in the NHL. Just needs the experience and ice time to develop the on ice skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Plus wasn't there a numbers problem? A lot of extra bodies all vying for ice time? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 PP has one hockey life. He has to do what's best for him and I'd think few poster if in his position would think sitting in the press box actually helps his progress. What I don't get is in this day and age players expect the courtesy of being kept up todate with the teams expectations. This old school thinking and guess what we've moved on. It's no longer acceptable for management to treat todays player like they were treated in the 70's. Is their days so full that they can't address prospects for 15 mins occasionally. This what having a farm team and developing program is IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 hour ago, The Great 8 said: The thing with Palmu is that he’s very much like virtanen. Where physically he has the strength to play in the NHL. Just needs the experience and ice time to develop the on ice skills. According to Johnson, Petrus needs to improve in the wall play, the compete and physicality before he returns to the AHL. He will get +++ ice time playing in Finland, so hopefully he can improve in those areas. It would be great if he can return to the Comets for next season. For a winger, 5'6" will make his road to the NHL very tough indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 13 minutes ago, higgyfan said: According to Johnson, Petrus needs to improve in the wall play, the compete and physicality before he returns to the AHL. He will get +++ ice time playing in Finland, so hopefully he can improve in those areas. It would be great if he can return to the Comets for next season. For a winger, 5'6" will make his road to the NHL very tough indeed. It's one thing to tell that to the media but PP it has to be a case of this is your deficiencies ….. and this how you solve it And this is what we expect you to work on. But for PP tell us he never heard from them there's a credibility gap. It's not as though PP is the first to state this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanuck Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 21 minutes ago, higgyfan said: According to Johnson, Petrus needs to improve in the wall play, the compete and physicality before he returns to the AHL. He will get +++ ice time playing in Finland, so hopefully he can improve in those areas. It would be great if he can return to the Comets for next season. For a winger, 5'6" will make his road to the NHL very tough indeed. I find it curious that Johnson feels PP needs to improve his 'wall-play and overall physicality' yet he believes the Liiga is the place to do this over the AHL? I'm sure the overall hockey in the Liiga is quite good - but if you want a player to work on these specific aspects of his game, would you not keep him in the league where these aspects most closely resemble the NHL style of play and make sure he actually plays? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Fred65 said: It's one thing to tell that to the media but PP it has to be a case of this is your deficiencies ….. and this how you solve it And this is what we expect you to work on. But for PP tell us he never heard from them there's a credibility gap. It's not as though PP is the first to state this His statement was a part of a conversation he had with PP before the player left for Finland. PP stated that he never heard feedback while he was playing in Utica. Not Johnson's job. Maybe coaching staff's job, but they haven't commented on PP's statement, so I can't get an accurate read on it. Edited January 8, 2019 by higgyfan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 2 hours ago, higgyfan said: His statement was a part of a conversation he had with PP before the player left for Finland. PP stated that he never heard feedback while he was playing in Utica. Not Johnson's job. Maybe coaching staff's job, but they haven't commented on PP's statement, so I can't get an accurate read on it. Johnson's title is :- Ryan Johnson, General Manager, Utica Comets & Sr. Director, Player Development, Why wouldn't it be his job ? In the chain of commmand he's out ranks the coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westcoastsniper Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Fred65 said: Johnson's title is :- Ryan Johnson, General Manager, Utica Comets & Sr. Director, Player Development, Why wouldn't it be his job ? In the chain of commmand he's out ranks the coach. In a corporate structure, the director level usually builds the team and establishes the vision, he's not doing the actual player development. Edited January 9, 2019 by westcoastsniper 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Go back to Finland and grow 6 inches!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 2 hours ago, westcoastsniper said: In a corporate structure, the director level usually builds the team and establishes the vision, he's not doing the actual player development. Sorry I don't buy that if you're the Captain of the ship you best know what's going on and frankly manage not only PP but the dam coach too. That's where the buck stops. If things go drastically wrong you get canned, you can't blame some one else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post CRAZY_4_NAZZY Posted January 9, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, RetroCanuck said: The current group down there is to concerned with making playoffs and not about development. Which is really going to hurt our future players. I understand that people are upset that Palmu's situation seems to be on rocky waters, but your statement does not depict an accurate representation of Utica's situation. Gaudette has played top six minutes when he was sent down for the 3 games, and was playing as the key second line center playing in all of Utica's special teams over the weekend. He also had multi-point games and is a PPG when he has played for the Comets. He has been given ample time and opportunities to carry a large load under Coach Cull and rightfully so, and has flourished, which is why he is back up with the Canucks...kid at 22 is showing marks of a valuable 3rd line center going forward Dahlen who had a slow start has begun to find himself. He wasn't given much ice time especially before his concussion, where he often found himself between Cam Darcy and Carter Bancks. But as of late since his return he had a 4 game point streak and began to see quality time on the powerplay. He now is a mainstay on PP1 and even has usurped Reid Boucher from his usual spot on the right circle. He earned his time and Cull and coaching staff have harped over him to upgrade his all around game. He responded well and they are rewarding him. He has played mainly on the left wing 3rd line 5v5 but now with Darren Archibald dealt, he has been bumped to the 2nd line with (what was Gaudette as his centre before being called up) and is now with Tom Pyatt and Zac MacEwen. He is 21 Zac MacEwen is epitomy of the prospect that has fought tooth and nail for every single opportunity and has elevated his game so much that he has been entrusted by Cull to play all situations for the Comets. He plays net front presence on the first unit powerplay, and plays time on the PK as well. He has been a jack of all trades kind of player that he has found himself time with Boucher and Kero on the top line 5v5, to with Archibald and Gaunce, to being an energy line forward with Wacey Hamilton and Carter Bancks. Heck media is now tuning in and being curious about this kid, when very little love was given to him since he was signed as an FA. Kid is only 22 but has many raw skills that are finally coming together, you can see a bottom six forward earmarked for NHL debut soon. Add another handful of defensive prospects Juolevi who was essentially playing top pairing minutes before his injury was playing all situations. He literally anchored that first unit powerplay, it ran through him. He started showing flashes of what his potential was, and despite some grow and pains, Gary Agnew the defensive coach played him plenty. Utica's D is not short of young prospects either - add Aston Sautner, Evan McEneny, Guillaume Brisebois (who has actually stepped up admirably after all the dman have fallen due to injury, even was lauded by media before Christmas break, he has become a steady top 4 force for the comets) Jalen Chatfield. All 5 of these guys have been mainstays in the lineup when they were not out with injury and all South of the age of 24. Not all of them will see the NHL, but they have been playing crucial roles for the Comets. If it weren't for some serious injuries to Juolevi, Chatfield, and Sautner - they would essentially be Utica's top 3 dman. Lukas Jasek struggled at the beginning of the season after a strong start last April. However, he has found himself a mainstay in the top six when the Comets were depleted badly, as he often flanked Archibald and Gaunce on the right side and has put up respectable numbers. He still has a ways to make it, but he has shown progress and is playing the second unit of the powerplay. Even as of late Kole Lind has found his sea legs after having a forgettable first 3 months to his pro career. He has made a home with Vincent Arceneau and Cam Darcy as the energy line. Lind this past week had his first multi-point game, and is being trusted in defensive situations. Even late in games, he is being used to defend leads. Check the Comets twitter account, Cory Hergott (canucks correspondent) and Ben Birnell (Utica Comets reporter), have said that Lind's game has taken a turn for the better and is being trusted more. The 20 year old is finding his way in the AHL, and with that, the teen is still growing, learning, maturing about being a pro. Do we need to say more about Thatcher Demko and how he has revitalized the team from the crease? Ivan Kulbalkov has even stepped in admirably who is a FA (Comets property) at age 21 doesn't look out of place when Demko had his concussion and Bachman faltered to step up. Kulbalkov has even become a fan favourite because the crowd and obviously management see potential in him. He has back to back wins this past weekend shutting the Cleveland Monsters out respectively 5-1 and 6-2. A 22 year old stud and 21 year old FA prospect are taking lead in net. We add into the mix Brendan Gaunce a former 1st rounder at age 24, Tanner Kero at age 25, and Reid Boucher at age 25 have been anchors for the Comets. They have been the heart of the Comets, yeah they aren't NHL studs, but still relatively young and provide the Comet's primary offense. If anything without them, the COmets would be struggling mightly. Gaunce has been Cull's shutdown center since being sent down, Kero has give Utica their number one center they have been longing for since they lost Cal O'Reilly 3 seasons ago, and Boucher has been an offensive catalyst for them. They are currently Utica's first line. So what is it exactly that you mean that this team isn't dedicated to development? 2/3's of a nightly roster is dedicated to developing prospects. Its an AHL rule, https://theahl.com/faq What is the AHL’s development rule? In the AHL, player development is a top priority. The American Hockey League and the Professional Hockey Players’ Association have the following development rule in place: Of the 18 skaters (not counting two goaltenders) that teams may dress for a game, at least 13 must be qualified as “development players.” Of those 13, 12 must have played in 260 or fewer professional games (including AHL, NHL and European elite leagues), and one must have played in 320 or fewer professional games. All calculations for development status are based on regular-season totals as of the start of the season. - Literally every single player I have talked about above applies to this rule. https://www.100degreehockey.com/2012/08/explaining-ahl-veteran-rule-and.html In addition, the AHL allows only 5 skaters a game to be veterans, who are over the 320 game mark. That would be Carter Bancks, Wacey Hamilton, Tom Pyatt, Jaime Sifers, and Brendan Woods. Every AHL team has been carrying 5 veterans, because you know what, young teams need veterans who have been there to show them the way. 19 - 20 year olds who stepped into this league won't figure it out instantaneously. They need good veteran leadership to surround them not just on the ice, but off it too. These are quality AHL veterans who have been around (especially Bancks and Hamilton who have been there since the inaugural season). Yeah sure prospects need to play, but they aren't given spots either. Just because we are in a rebuild does not entitle every single prospect to seeing time. You do realize that there are a handful of other prospects who are also stealing Palmu and Gadjovich's time right? Both are young and have a ways away to put it all together. So they sit out a bit, they will be given their opportunity. There are 12 spots on the forward roster, 8 are already being taken up by prominent prospects and young players leaving a few spots for established AHL vets and some PTO's. Every AHL team entertains AHL vets, PTO's, ATO's, ECHL call ups to fill out the roster and to comply to the rules. Cam Darcy, Vincent Arseneau, Colton Saucerman, Jagger Dirk, Cliff Watson, Toni Camarnasi are all by products of finding fillers especially when the Canucks and Comets went through some injury woes. Yeah it sucks that Palmu is in Finland and not here playing games. Yeah it sucks Gadj is struggling to find his way (heck he played great in the last few games he was in and seemed to find himself a bit in a checking line forward role). But to say Utica and their staff aren't committed to develop the prospects is absolutely foolish. That statement does not reflect the true nature of what is happening in Utica...just because 2 guys have struggled, doesn't reflect the fact that there are many other young players who have stepped up and showing bright futures for this organization. Media and fans who look from the outside who haven't done their homework or haven't followed along in detail jump on every single lead and blow it out of proportion. Palmu has his perspective and so does media, fans, staff, coaches and etc. We may never know the full picture of what went on, but to say that Cull, Johnson, and co have neglected development of prospects is not congruent with what we are seeing with the other prospects. Edited January 9, 2019 by CRAZY_4_NAZZY 5 5 2 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beagle had landed Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) Thank you crazy_4_nazzy for providing this rational info on our prospects development and the AHL roster rules. Our top prospects seem to be adjusting well which is good to know. Hopefully Palmu can figure out the parts of his game management wants him to work on while back in Finland so he can be an effective and consistent player at the pro level. Edited January 9, 2019 by The Beagle had landed 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UticaHockey Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 2 hours ago, The Beagle had landed said: Thank you crazy_4_nazzy for providing this rational info on our prospects development and the AHL roster rules. Our top prospects seem to be adjusting well which is good to know. Hopefully Palmu can figure out the parts of his game management wants him to work on while back in Finland so he can be an effective and consistent player at the pro level. Ditto. It had to take a lot of time and effort to put a post together like that. Well done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 nice post @CRAZY_4_NAZZY I'm actually happy Palmu is getting the time he is in Finland. There should be a little bit more room for him to make an impact next year (I can't see that entire group being back) in Utica and he should come back with more refined skills. I can see why in all of that development rotation you explained that a kid might feel like there wasn't enough time for him or felt lost in that, but that seems to be what a lot of kids in the AHL need to overcome. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 The fact is the Canuck roster is full of players that were developed in Utica ( sarcasm ) which offers an insight into how successful the current strategy is working. Every summer JB looks to the FA market for players to fill the holes, not Utica. The farm team seems to develop players for the AHL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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