westcoastsniper Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, Fred65 said: The fact is the Canuck roster is full of players that were developed in Utica ( sarcasm ) which offers an insight into how successful the current strategy is working. Every summer JB looks to the FA market for players to fill the holes, not Utica. The farm team seems to develop players for the AHL. Baertschi, Virtanen, Goldobin are players in our top 9 who came from that system.. Bo Horvat didnt need AHL and Pettersson and Boeser came in as stars already. The bottom 6 consists of veterans but will likely be replaced by these guys coming up (MacEwen, Gaudette, Gaunce). Also theres a chance for Dahlen and Lind to make the top 6 if they up their pace and round out their game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 14 minutes ago, Fred65 said: The fact is the Canuck roster is full of players that were developed in Utica ( sarcasm ) which offers an insight into how successful the current strategy is working. Every summer JB looks to the FA market for players to fill the holes, not Utica. The farm team seems to develop players for the AHL. I think Green did well with guys like Jake. This new guy is horrifyingly bad though. It's clear he needs to go, and we get someone who puts the Canuck's best interest first, and that's developing our young guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, westcoastsniper said: Baertschi, Virtanen, Goldobin are players in our top 9 who came from that system.. Bo Horvat didnt need AHL and Pettersson and Boeser came in as stars already. The bottom 6 consists of veterans but will likely be replaced by these guys coming up (MacEwen, Gaudette, Gaunce). Also theres a chance for Dahlen and Lind to make the top 6 if they up their pace and round out their game. Baertschi played 15 games in Utica, Virtanen was not the poster boy for Utica. He sucked down there as he did in Vcr until this year, which is his 4th year as a pro and two season since Utica, Goldobin played 33 game is Utica. The commonality between those three is they were all 1st round picks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckledraggin Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 It's unfortunate that they had to have the conversation through the media, but as long as it has the net effect of opening the dialogue further, then it could be seen as a positive. Regardless of the miscommunication, he's better off playing bigger minutes in Finland so that was the right move to make anyways. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 17 minutes ago, Fred65 said: The fact is the Canuck roster is full of players that were developed in Utica ( sarcasm ) which offers an insight into how successful the current strategy is working. Every summer JB looks to the FA market for players to fill the holes, not Utica. The farm team seems to develop players for the AHL. 8 minutes ago, westcoastsniper said: Baertschi, Virtanen, Goldobin are players in our top 9 who came from that system.. Bo Horvat didnt need AHL and Pettersson and Boeser came in as stars already. The bottom 6 consists of veterans but will likely be replaced by these guys coming up (MacEwen, Gaudette, Gaunce). Also theres a chance for Dahlen and Lind to make the top 6 if they up their pace and round out their game. A few other Utica graduates Demko as well as the tweeners Biega and Archibald Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Alflives said: I think Green did well with guys like Jake. This new guy is horrifyingly bad though. It's clear he needs to go, and we get someone who puts the Canuck's best interest first, and that's developing our young guys. I don't know a lot about Cull, but there has to be an agreed development system put in place and a set of company guidelines to who ever is the coach. This not about converting an AHL coach to become an NHL coach ( ie winning percentage ) but to develop player. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, gurn said: A few other Utica graduates Demko as well as the tweeners Biega and Archibald Demko …. hardly falls under the category of a out skater. He was putting in time and was one of two options for the Utica team. Like other goalies he was putting in time. If Archibald is any thing it's a poster boy of being unable to get a player over the line in his development. Biega is certainly a handy number 7-8 D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, Fred65 said: I don't know a lot about Cull, but there has to be an agreed development system put in place and a set of company guidelines to who ever is the coach. This not about converting an AHL coach to become an NHL coach ( ie winning percentage ) but to develop player. Maybe we would be better off with an older coach, who has no aspirations to go back to the NHL? Or an ex college coach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 30 minutes ago, Fred65 said: The fact is the Canuck roster is full of players that were developed in Utica ( sarcasm ) 5 minutes ago, Fred65 said: Demko …. hardly falls under the category of a out skater. Looks like you are a person that likes to move the goalposts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Alflives said: Maybe we would be better off with an older coach, who has no aspirations to go back to the NHL? Or an ex college coach? To tell you the truth, I prefer the development players get in the NCAA than in Utica. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe-max Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Fun stat: In his first 7 games in Liiga Palmu has won 85.7% of faceoffs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, gurn said: Looks like you are a person that likes to move the goalposts. I hope not, I like to think myself as a fact based conclusion rather than hyperbole. You can't compare a goalie to out skaters when they only have 2 goalies and mostly split their starts. One thing I do not like is speculation and dreaming, but that's not me I don't see Utica as a fundament part of Virtanens development. He has show limited improvement this year but Utica is 2 years past. Edited January 9, 2019 by Fred65 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckledraggin Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, Fred65 said: Baertschi played 15 games in Utica, Virtanen was not the poster boy for Utica. He sucked down there as he did in Vcr until this year, which is his 4th year as a pro and two season since Utica, Goldobin played 33 game is Utica. The commonality between those three is they were all 1st round picks Nope. Baertschi played 15 regular season games and 21 playoff games. He was instrumental in their run to the finals that season. Virtanen wasn't the poster boy for Utica, but Green firmly tucked him under his wing and willed the kid to make progression in his development. Markstrom is missing from that list and it was a good move to waive him early in the pre-season 2014 so he could build his way back up to the NHL. While there does need to be more successes coming from Utica within the next few years, The Canucks have shown they're only willing to put a couple of rookies in each year, so those players in Utica have to compete with college players and players from overseas as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, canuckledraggin said: Nope. Baertschi played 15 regular season games and 21 playoff games. He was instrumental in their run to the finals that season. Virtanen wasn't the poster boy for Utica, but Green firmly tucked him under his wing and willed the kid to make progression in his development. Markstrom is missing from that list and it was a good move to waive him early in the pre-season 2014 so he could build his way back up to the NHL. While there does need to be more successes coming from Utica within the next few years, The Canucks have shown they're only willing to put a couple of rookies in each year, so those players in Utica have to compete with college players and players from overseas as well. The issue is not internal competition. It's who that competition is with. Our young prospects should not have to compete with AHL journeymen, who are only better because they are older and more mature/experienced. Even guys like Boucher are getting too old, and shouldn't be taking spots from guys, who might actually play for the Canucks. Of course we need some veteran AHL guys to lead the team, but we don't need a team loaded with these types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 9 minutes ago, Fred65 said: You can't compare a goalie to out skaters But that was not your starting post was it? iirc you started with this: 50 minutes ago, Fred65 said: The fact is the Canuck roster is full of players that were developed in Utica ( sarcasm ) then moved the posts. then said you hoped you weren't a post mover, having done just that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, canuckledraggin said: Nope. Baertschi played 15 regular season games and 21 playoff games. He was instrumental in their run to the finals that season. Virtanen wasn't the poster boy for Utica, but Green firmly tucked him under his wing and willed the kid to make progression in his development. Markstrom is missing from that list and it was a good move to waive him early in the pre-season 2014 so he could build his way back up to the NHL. While there does need to be more successes coming from Utica within the next few years, The Canucks have shown they're only willing to put a couple of rookies in each year, so those players in Utica have to compete with college players and players from overseas as well. Let's not forget the reason Markstrom was in Utica was because Vcr had a goalie named Miller, but yes Markstrom did improve in Utica but also bare in mind he had a specific goalie coach working with him which make the goalie development a tad different to out skaters. Always smile when I think of Markstrom, he was acquired by Gillis and doesn't look too shabby today. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 10 minutes ago, gurn said: But that was not your starting post was it? iirc you started with this: then moved the posts. then said you hoped you weren't a post mover, having done just that. Sorry sunshine I don't understand what you're debating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckledraggin Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Alflives said: The issue is not internal competition. It's who that competition is with. Our young prospects should not have to compete with AHL journeymen, who are only better because they are older and more mature/experienced. Even guys like Boucher are getting too old, and shouldn't be taking spots from guys, who might actually play for the Canucks. Of course we need some veteran AHL guys to lead the team, but we don't need a team loaded with these types. Progression isn't linear for every player. There's nothing wrong with some players taking longer in their development. The reason entry level deals are 3 years long, is that that is the usual amount of time it takes for players to learn the pro game. Then teams get to choose to sign players multiple years as restricted free agents. Players like Palmu and Gadjovich have lots of time to prove themselves within the organization. Earned not given has been the mantra of this team for several years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 minute ago, canuckledraggin said: Progression isn't linear for every player. There's nothing wrong with some players taking longer in their development. The reason entry level deals are 3 years long, is that that is the usual amount of time it takes for players to learn the pro game. Then teams get to choose to sign players multiple years as restricted free agents. Players like Palmu and Gadjovich have lots of time to prove themselves within the organization. Earned not given has been the mantra of this team for several years now. Neither of Palmu or Gadjovich are baby faces, who need to physically mature though. I think with these two we need to decide now if they have a role to play in our future. They need to play on the Comets, and play a lot, so we can figure this out. The quicker we make these decisions on young guy (especially two who are already men) the more value we can return in trading them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maketherightmove Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 12 minutes ago, Alflives said: Neither of Palmu or Gadjovich are baby faces, who need to physically mature though. I think with these two we need to decide now if they have a role to play in our future. They need to play on the Comets, and play a lot, so we can figure this out. The quicker we make these decisions on young guy (especially two who are already men) the more value we can return in trading them. Jonah's had a half season of professional hockey and this is Palmu's first season of high-level pro. Give them some time to work things out and settle in to their roles. No decisions have to be made immediately, the Canucks aren't going to legitimately compete for another couple of years at least. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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