Kanukfanatic Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 2 hours ago, alfstonker said: Utter garbage. I've had enough, you are exactly the type of fan I'm talking about. He is not a fan imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 13 hours ago, alfstonker said: Was that not Holland? You know I think you're right The point is IMO chnage comes slower to hockey because it's not subject to so many varying elements. A number of years if you recall Hockey Canada held a summit of hockey minds to try and isolate the problems with the sport …. top to bottom, but seems to me not a lot has happened for instance for the size and population of countries such as Finland population 5.5 million and 73K participants, Sweden pop 10 million and particiant 62K as against Canada 36 mill and 637K particpants and yet you look at percentage of EU players in the NHL. I think of the high end goalies coming out of EU. Some countries are hitting above their weight class and we tend to tag along behind ...what Canada has is volume. I tend to believe Palmu gets more direct help at home where every player is worth attention. He likely expected much the same in Utica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyHarry Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 IMO The AHL should be thought as a Development program league for NHL hockey. and less thought of as a pro hockey league. Thats the problem AHL gms and coach’s think they are running NHL teams or WHL, OHL, QMJHL teams. AHL shouldn’t be ran like that. It should be 100% development driven to make future NHL players and ran as such. But that just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Crabcakes said: What's really interesting about this is A. Palmu/Kakko will end up with some pre-existing chemistry B. Kakko being played as a centre? Has this happened before? With any consistency? If so how has he looked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroCanuck Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 29 minutes ago, Warhippy said: What's really interesting about this is A. Palmu/Kakko will end up with some pre-existing chemistry B. Kakko being played as a centre? Has this happened before? With any consistency? If so how has he looked? If I remember reading it right he was a centre before playing for TPS in Liiga. Most scouts Ive heard say he will be a winger in the NHL, but it definitely doesn't hurt to have a big winger who knows how to play centre on your team if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 49 minutes ago, Warhippy said: What's really interesting about this is A. Palmu/Kakko will end up with some pre-existing chemistry B. Kakko being played as a centre? Has this happened before? With any consistency? If so how has he looked? The Canucks drafting Kakko is going to take lightning striking twice like Philly jumping from 13 to 2, a 1 in 50 chance in 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 10 hours ago, HockeyHarry said: It doesn’t matter it’s a kid. just be professional and develop him. thats their only job. Do everything possible to develop that kid. it sounds like the Staff needs schooling in teaching and how to be professional about their job. According to one 20 year old rookie? Everything else coming out of Utica says there is great communication down there between staff and players. But sure, let's assume the 20 year old kids word is law and everyone down there is terrible at their job.. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorvatToBaertschi Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 14 hours ago, The 5th Line said: Juolevi, McCann, Virtanen, Tryamkin were all dealt with horribly. Gaunce the refrigerator can play an NHL game but can't actually get anything done, Gaudette much of the same so far and clearly they wan't him developing far away from Utica. Lind, Gadjovich, Dahlen all 2nd round picks having "meh" years, yes I know they are rookies but still showing little signs of progression thus far. Palmu already shipped back to Finland. Little Jordan Subban's AHL career took a serious nose dive after we tried to teach him how to play defense, as did Hunter Shinaruk's. Stecher fast tracked, Baertschi mostly developed in Calgary just needed change of scenery. Finally Demko has risen to the top after years of solid progression but even still, we haven't seen him play yet and he is taking the goalie's long road. We don't develop young talent well it's been this way for years. Boeser, Petterson and Horvat are special kinds of players, they don't need to be hand held. We havent developed well since the Edler, Burrows, Kesler, Hansen days What a bunch of gibberish. We have successfully developped: (the obvious ones that we held back 1 or 2 years): Horvat EP Boeser The pickups: Baertschi Stecher Granlund Goldobin The non 1st-round picks: Hutton Gaudette Tryamkin Demko And that’s not even scratching the surface... Virtanen is in a slump currently but is having a great season Dahlen is picking it up transitioning to NA ice McEneny Brisebois Chatfield Sautner all important dmen in Utica Juolevi has been really well-handled, is just suffering terrible injury luck Jasek is trending just fine Lind and Gadj are rookies, they need some time and that’s fine. Gadj has 20 games to his name fyi. Lind is playing. They’re not benched every game. Kulbakov is playing meaningful games. Palmu decided to leave and play with Kakko, very good decision. our development is fine, and miles ahead of what it was 5 years ago when JB signed his contract be patient. Rome wasn’t built in a day 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan since 82 Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 14 hours ago, HockeyHarry said: I totally disagree. It’s the coaching staff with lack of communication skills and laziness to teach young kids. yes the Staff knows hockey but NOT people skills. who f’n cares about your fishing crap story. It’s just stupid with zero points. The thing is we don't actually know which versions of this account are true. They shouldn't go and fire the entire Utica coaching staff on the say-so of one prospect. You're jumping on Petrus' side but he might be the one trying to save face. If there were multiple prospects saying the same thing then it would bear someone looking into it. As it is now its only Petrus. I like the kid, and really hope he develops into a player for us. He has some work to do before he gets there though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 15 hours ago, HockeyHarry said: IMO The AHL should be thought as a Development program league for NHL hockey. and less thought of as a pro hockey league. Thats the problem AHL gms and coach’s think they are running NHL teams or WHL, OHL, QMJHL teams. AHL shouldn’t be ran like that. It should be 100% development driven to make future NHL players and ran as such. But that just my opinion. Everything on this planet has to do with money. What your suggesting would lessen the AHL as a business and hence they would make less money. Never gonna happen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckledraggin Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 On 1/11/2019 at 3:31 PM, The 5th Line said: You are giving the team a pass and saying that the ones who didn't make it simply just weren't good enough. Maybe they were good enough but they weren't developed properly? It's the chicken and the egg, but this should be about results and the results of us developing young players just isn't there. You're speaking in generalities. In order for your theory to be true, I would need to see evidence of former Comets players who went on to NHL success. There isn't even one that I could find. I offered Grenier and Jensen as examples, but let's list the other hopefuls: O'Reilly, Sanguinetti, Shinkaruk, Subban, Corrado and Cassels. Those are players who went to other organizations and got a handful of NHL games at most and who currently are stuck in minor leagues. Feel free to provide an actual instance where prospects were mishandled. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckledraggin Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 You're m 3 hours ago, The 5th Line said: Why would they go on to have success elsewhere? All those players spent there first few critical years in the Canucks system, they could just of been damaged goods by the time we shipped them out. We are talking about this team being horrible at developing young players, especially in the minors. Pedan, Kenins, Shinkaruk, Gaunce, Cassels, Corrado, Grenier, McEneny, Kassian, Rodin, were all players who once were thought to at least be depth players. Where are they? You are asking for examples of mishandled young players? McCann and Virtanen had no business being in the NHL that season, and that is how you ruin a young players career, and we risked doing it to two players at once. You could even put Hodgson on the list. Palmu and Trymakin are the most recent examples of players who fled from us and we don't even really know why. It sounds like Gadjovich might be going back to the OHL at some point, Lind is struggling, Dahlen is doing okay but overall has been underwhelming, they aren't supported with good playmaking centers in Utica, we have young wingers struggling to find confidence because they aren't putting up offensive numbers. Now let's see examples of players we have slowly developed in the last I don't know, 7-9 years Horvat, Petterson and Boeser are not examples...these are star players who would shine anywhere, they didn't even need time in the Minors Because your claim is that our AHL franchise isn't capable of developing successes. If they had the talent to make it in the NHL then surely they were just mishandled by our franchise. There are zero examples of players who were cut from the Comets, who went on to have successes with other teams. How you could have Kassian, Hodgson and Tryamkin on your list, makes your argument even more flimsy than it already was. Gadjovich looked good tonight. If MacEwen doesn't get a look in the NHL this season, I'd consider that a failure, but he is still in the system. Lind and Dahlen are taking steps in the right direction as rookies and Brisebois, Sautner, McEneny and Chatfield all have the potential to play games as D-men in the NHL at some point. Palmu is one of the players who might just slip through the cracks, but it's way to early to make that determination yet. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckledraggin Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 17 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: I'm saying those first few years of development are crucial, and the reason we had even traded the likes of Jensen's,Subban, Corrado's, and all of the other names I mentioned is because they weren't developing properly. By your logic you are saying that the Rangers are the ones who weren't capable of developing Jensen, even though we sent him there in his draft +6 year. You are also using the argument "so and so is looking good" which is completely redundant, like I said, we need results and maybe they are coming, maybe we just gotta wait another year or two but to say that we are an organization that doesn't have a problem developing young talent...!? I'm trying to understand what you're saying. You think that Jensen, Subban and Corrado were actual NHL talent who were just mistreated and coaching was the main problem with their development? And it's pointless to talk about current prospects who are showing progress, because previous failures are indicators of future failures. There are only a few prospects on every AHL team who have a chance of making their NHL teams. It's not exclusively a Utica Comets/Canucks franchise development concern. Some players may push themselves to become better than their raw talent would indicate, like a Burrows or a Hansen. And some players seem to have the tools to succeed, yet don't make it to the show. I think it's worth noting that we have developed coaches as well as players. AV, Green and now Cull are all 1st time pro head coaches with the franchise. I see more successes than failures if you're looking at the big picture. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 12 hours ago, canuckledraggin said: You're speaking in generalities. In order for your theory to be true, I would need to see evidence of former Comets players who went on to NHL success. There isn't even one that I could find. I offered Grenier and Jensen as examples, but let's list the other hopefuls: O'Reilly, Sanguinetti, Shinkaruk, Subban, Corrado and Cassels. Those are players who went to other organizations and got a handful of NHL games at most and who currently are stuck in minor leagues. Feel free to provide an actual instance where prospects were mishandled. Roussel was a Canuck property who got away while in the AHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kootenay Gold Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Boudrias said: Roussel was a Canuck property who got away while in the AHL. I don't recall him being Canucks property per se but was invited to the 2011 prospects camp and think he might have had an invite to main camp as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 9 minutes ago, Kootenay Gold said: I don't recall him being Canucks property per se but was invited to the 2011 prospects camp and think he might have had an invite to main camp as well. 61 games with the Chicago Wolves when they were the Canuck affililiate. I simply remember him playing there but he could have been a Wolves signing. I thought I heard him talking about those days and his involvement with the Canuck org. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kootenay Gold Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 He was never drafted so would have been a FA signing for the Wolves. He left the Wolves after one year and signed a two year deal with with Dallas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyHarry Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 23 hours ago, Kanukfanatic said: Everything on this planet has to do with money. What your suggesting would lessen the AHL as a business and hence they would make less money. Never gonna happen. I just find it odd that during the OFF season players improve the most. Weather it be skating, stickhandling, shooting or overall fitness. Why is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 We're not getting the bang for our buck lately in Utica. They want to win so they go with older vet signings to help them. This leaves some of our young guys sitting. So if our young draft picks aren't deemed ready for significant ice time what are we supposed to do with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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