Petrus Palmu | RW/LW

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[Grape]

I know this topic has been exhausted already but I just wanna add something:

 

When a player makes the league from the AHL, or his style of play is transformed, there are almost always comments as to how the minor league team has done such an excellent job with such a player and that's where a lot of the credit is given. When a player doesn't pan out, comments are generally on how the player, well, just didn't pan out, whether it be because of effort, fitness, skill etc... It's generally only after a series of players not panning out until the minor league development system gets criticized. 

 

Player development I think always requires constant communication, whether it's to change the way a player plays, make him more confident, or less cocky, or just instill the necessary skills to reach the next level. Development isn't just: "this is how we expect you to play, these are the parameters, if you do them you get playing time, if you don't you won't get playing time." So while Ryan Johnson says that “It’s very clear as an organization how we expect a player to play," it doesn't refute what Palmu's said. 

 

For Palmu, he was in a situation where seemingly there was a lack of communication between player and coaches. So if he's telling the truth, and Palmu makes the NHL (ignoring that he already abandoned the AHL), there would be hypocrisy in the sense that a lot of credit would be given to the system, whereas he really had to pave his own way, meeting the expectations set by the system. (It's not about whether you believe Johnson and the organization about how there's already expectations being communicated, or if you believe Palmu about how no one talked to him, both can be true at the same time)

 

Essentially, if a player is just given a set of standards to reach, rather than actually communicating and teaching to help them reach it, it isn't really "player development" as we think it, it's really just a testament to how well the player has developed on his own. 

 

I'm not really taking a side as to who was right or who was wrong, I'm mostly just saying that sometimes, the system gets too much credit, when it's more that the player carved out his own path to success.

Edited February 25, 2019 by Grape

[Fred65]

It's not a good look for Utica and Vcr when two prospects want out of the farm team. I'm thinking this doesn't happen too often. Dahlen's agent had spoke to JB about trading his player. Palmu just walked.  One leaving is bad enough but two prospects feeling their development would be better else ware

[Warhippy]

4 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

It's not a good look for Utica and Vcr when two prospects want out of the farm team. I'm thinking this doesn't happen too often. Dahlen's agent had spoke to JB about trading his player. Palmu just walked.  One leaving is bad enough but two prospects feeling their development would be better else ware

He didn't just walk.  There was consultation between the org and him as well as his agent and for playing time they all decided europe was the better option.

 

Why do people say things like this when there's the real story that is easily found like 7 pages back

[VegasCanuck]

16 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

He didn't just walk.  There was consultation between the org and him as well as his agent and for playing time they all decided europe was the better option.

 

Why do people say things like this when there's the real story that is easily found like 7 pages back

Yeah, but where's the drama in the Real Story?

 

People on this board have much more fun with idle speculation

 

[Warhippy]

Just now, VegasCanuck said:

Yeah, but where's the drama in the Real Story?

 

People on this board have much more fun with idle speculation

 

I need to start lurking more and posting less.

[VegasCanuck]

Just now, Warhippy said:

I need to start lurking more and posting less.

This exactly @Warhippy

 

[Warhippy]

Just now, VegasCanuck said:

This exactly @Warhippy

 

make it so

 

[Westcoasting]

9 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I need to start lurking more and posting less.

No, don't change a thing! Every year it's the same thing at TD day... everyone wanting impossible trades and signings, and every player who leaves was going to be the next big thing! lol

[Fred65]

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

He didn't just walk.  There was consultation between the org and him as well as his agent and for playing time they all decided europe was the better option.

 

Why do people say things like this when there's the real story that is easily found like 7 pages back

The fact is if he walked, he felt his future  was not being served sitting in the press box, what ever the reason the end product is he was signed and then left the organization for a better opportunity else where. I have no idea why fans need to continuously protect Orca Bay. I can't think of one other prospect that's left the farm team in the last 40 years to get better development in other places. Dahlen wanted out and Palmu clearly needed to get playing time at a critical point of his development. When you get players looking around to do better else ware …… that's not a good look for the organization. You might think it's dandy but not me. It wasn't that long ago dozens of posters were lauding these two player as  up and coming great addition, and now they realize all is not well. You get suspicious when JB reiterates twice in an interview how he thinks Cull is doing a great job. One more thing that JB said was how well Briesbois played and how pleased he was …. I'm thinking oh year. He looked like a fire drill IMO

[Gaudette Celly]

21 hours ago, Fred65 said:

The fact is if he walked

Which he didn't, thereby the rest is non-factual.

[stawns]

22 hours ago, Fred65 said:

The fact is if he walked, he felt his future  was not being served sitting in the press box, what ever the reason the end product is he was signed and then left the organization for a better opportunity else where. I have no idea why fans need to continuously protect Orca Bay. I can't think of one other prospect that's left the farm team in the last 40 years to get better development in other places. Dahlen wanted out and Palmu clearly needed to get playing time at a critical point of his development. When you get players looking around to do better else ware …… that's not a good look for the organization. You might think it's dandy but not me. It wasn't that long ago dozens of posters were lauding these two player as  up and coming great addition, and now they realize all is not well. You get suspicious when JB reiterates twice in an interview how he thinks Cull is doing a great job. One more thing that JB said was how well Briesbois played and how pleased he was …. I'm thinking oh year. He looked like a fire drill IMO

he didn't leave the organization, in any way, shape or form.  The f#$%ing drama queens on this board, I swear.

[Alflives]

Just now, stawns said:

he didn't leave the organization, in any way, shape or form.  The f#$%ing drama queens on this board, I swear.

Says who!!!  

[Borvat]

23 hours ago, Fred65 said:

The fact is if he walked, he felt his future  was not being served sitting in the press box, what ever the reason the end product is he was signed and then left the organization for a better opportunity else where. I have no idea why fans need to continuously protect Orca Bay. I can't think of one other prospect that's left the farm team in the last 40 years to get better development in other places. Dahlen wanted out and Palmu clearly needed to get playing time at a critical point of his development. When you get players looking around to do better else ware …… that's not a good look for the organization. You might think it's dandy but not me. It wasn't that long ago dozens of posters were lauding these two player as  up and coming great addition, and now they realize all is not well. You get suspicious when JB reiterates twice in an interview how he thinks Cull is doing a great job. One more thing that JB said was how well Briesbois played and how pleased he was …. I'm thinking oh year. He looked like a fire drill IMO

Dahlen left the farm team initially (last year) to return to his Allsvenskan team because he wasn't ready for the AHL (mono/wasn't prepared and with the teams blessing). 

 

Palmu left because he wanted playing time he wasn't prepared to earn or put in the work for. (with the teams assistance and permission)

 

Juolevi also left/wasn't placed in the AHL to play in Finland under Salo's tutelage because of injury and he was deemed not ready for the AHL, also with the team's blessing and understanding.

 

I think there is a big misconception about who plays regular top six shifts at a young age in the AHL.  Yes it's a developmental league but it is made up of grown men (earning a living for their families or trying to get to or back to the NHL), not  just 19 and 20 year old kids.  Look at the average age of the players on the successful farm teams (Tampa / Toronto etc)  and they aren't made up of kids.  It takes time to get from the AHL to the NHL, unless you are a highly skilled sure fire bet who just needs some pro seasoning like a Nylander type or........ It's a tough league, purposely.

 

Put in the work.  Sometimes it takes a year or 2 or 3.  If you are lucky and work hard you may get rewarded.  It does these kids no service sending them in unprepared.

 

 

Edited February 27, 2019 by Borvat

[Fred65]

56 minutes ago, stawns said:

he didn't leave the organization, in any way, shape or form.  The f#$%ing drama queens on this board, I swear.

Well much to the chagrin of Vcr management shall we say he ( Palmu ) believes his chnaces were better some place other than Utica and he left. Dahlen apprently asked for a trade and now he's gone. You may want to split hairs but here's the fact they were here and now they're not, because they both fely better opportunities were to be had else where ….. fact 

[stawns]

4 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Well much to the chagrin of Vcr management shall we say he ( Palmu ) believes his chnaces were better some place other than Utica and he left. Dahlen apprently asked for a trade and now he's gone. You may want to split hairs but here's the fact they were here and now they're not, because they both fely better opportunities were to be had else where ….. fact 

Palmu is still as much a part of the Canucks organization, and plans, as he was in Utica.  But you go ahead with whatever bizarre narrative you're constructing here.

Edited February 27, 2019 by stawns

[Fred65]

Just now, stawns said:

Palmu is still as much of the Canucks organization, and plans, as he was in Utica.  But you go ahead with whatever bizarre narrative you're constructing here.

OK, OK you explain why PP took his skates and went home. I'm not the delusional one here …. he left …for  a reason. He was getting no better sitting with a bucket of popcorn in Utica. Time is every thing for a youngster. He can't be scouted in the press box

[canuckistani]

23 hours ago, Fred65 said:

The fact is if he walked, he felt his future  was not being served sitting in the press box, what ever the reason the end product is he was signed and then left the organization for a better opportunity else where. I have no idea why fans need to continuously protect Orca Bay. I can't think of one other prospect that's left the farm team in the last 40 years to get better development in other places. Dahlen wanted out and Palmu clearly needed to get playing time at a critical point of his development. When you get players looking around to do better else ware …… that's not a good look for the organization. You might think it's dandy but not me. It wasn't that long ago dozens of posters were lauding these two player as  up and coming great addition, and now they realize all is not well. You get suspicious when JB reiterates twice in an interview how he thinks Cull is doing a great job. One more thing that JB said was how well Briesbois played and how pleased he was …. I'm thinking oh year. He looked like a fire drill IMO

The bolded part is a YOU problem. I can think of several prospects of several teams who either ask or are told to go to farm-b team (ECHL) or Europe to better progress and get more ice time. 

[Fred65]

6 minutes ago, canuckistani said:

The bolded part is a YOU problem. I can think of several prospects of several teams who either ask or are told to go to farm-b team (ECHL) or Europe to better progress and get more ice time. 

You're right promotion to or from a team is part of the gig of playing professional sports. They have you under contract and they get to do what they will. But that's not the case here, it was the players that got to do what they wanted. Basically rather than stick it out with managements direction THEY  ( the players ) decided that it was not good enough and get me the heck out of here.  The question begs to asked WHY so I did. It wasn't long ago management kept telling any one that listened how great a prospect Dahlen was. Now they xpect us to believe that they saw a 3rd tound pick as a better option. Sorry I don't believe it

Edited February 27, 2019 by Fred65

[canuckistani]

Just now, Fred65 said:

You're right promotion to or from a team is part of the gig of playing professional sports. They have you under contract and they get to do what they will. But that's not the case here, it was the players that got to do what they wanted. Basically rather than stick it out with managements direction THEY decided that it was not good enough and get me the heck out of here.  The question begs to asked WHY so I did

This also happens all the time. Management telling you 'hey go to Europe where you will get more ice time' is the same thing as you telling management 'i wanna go to europe to see more ice time'. If anything, it just shows Palmu is a driven guy and driven people always go to the boss for optimizing their career choices than waiting around for bosses to tell them what to do, thats it.