Petrus Palmu | RW/LW

[UticaHockey]

29 minutes ago, EP Phone Home said:

Sure is a hard league when Cull doesn’t play the kids like Gadget, Lind and Palmu. I understand it’s the coaches job to win games and would have more faith in veteran players then to ice a bunch of rookies who would make mistakes. But these AHL vets have no future with the Canucks as these kids do... when you let them play and learn from the mistakes they make. Not easy to balance it all but when management preaches that the AHL is a developing league the coach says something different. Not saying that all young players are getting shafted (Dahlen, OJ, Demko) among others are playing but maybe we are a victim of having too many prospects at once. Palmu is still Canuck property but I hope it doesn’t turn into a Tryamkin situation where we might not see him again. We shall see and hope for the best for these kids and the road to the NHL.

Those exact same criticisms were placed on Travis Green when he coached the Comets and I suspect that if you go back in time you would find similar complaints regarding the coaches of the Canucks farm teams in Chicago and Manitoba before they came to Utica.  The bottom line is Palmu wasn't very noticeable when he did play which didn't help his cause.  When he played he was used on the second power play unit to put him in scoring positions but he didn't produce any offense when given the opportunity.  At 5'6" he can't be expected to win many puck battles, which he didn't, so he needs to show some offensive skills which again he really didn't.  What I don't see, or anyone who is critical of Cull, is how Palmu looked in practice.  If he was having the same issues in practice that he had in games that would explain why he was scratched as often as he was.  It is easy to sit back and say how does Cull expect him to improve if he won't play him.  But the Comets practice more often than NHL teams do because of the AHL weekend heavy schedule and the Comets closer proximity to other teams.  If he had difficulties competing against AHL quality professionals on his own team then those same difficulties get carried over to games as well.  Again I don't watch the Comets practices but I do know that Cull and his staff employ a lot of drills and small area games that are competitive in nature.  

[EP Phone Home]

13 minutes ago, UticaHockey said:

Those exact same criticisms were placed on Travis Green when he coached the Comets and I suspect that if you go back in time you would find similar complaints regarding the coaches of the Canucks farm teams in Chicago and Manitoba before they came to Utica.  The bottom line is Palmu wasn't very noticeable when he did play which didn't help his cause.  When he played he was used on the second power play unit to put him in scoring positions but he didn't produce any offense when given the opportunity.  At 5'6" he can't be expected to win many puck battles, which he didn't, so he needs to show some offensive skills which again he really didn't.  What I don't see, or anyone who is critical of Cull, is how Palmu looked in practice.  If he was having the same issues in practice that he had in games that would explain why he was scratched as often as he was.  It is easy to sit back and say how does Cull expect him to improve if he won't play him.  But the Comets practice more often than NHL teams do because of the AHL weekend heavy schedule and the Comets closer proximity to other teams.  If he had difficulties competing against AHL quality professionals on his own team then those same difficulties get carried over to games as well.  Again I don't watch the Comets practices but I do know that Cull and his staff employ a lot of drills and small area games that are competitive in nature.  

Thank you for your input as I have only watched Utica highlights and haven’t seen Palmu play or practice as you have. And I agree that Green when he was in Utica has similar issues when balancing the lineup and not having the trust in the young players. Not every kid is going to make it to the bigs but I thought that Palmu, Gadget and Lind would be some of the kids to excel to the next level. It’s their first year of pro hockey and it’s quite a jump from junior/euro leagues to the AHL but I’m sad by this news and like I said before doesn’t scare the kid from coming back like Tryamkin. But I hope that he goes back to Finland and has a chip on his shoulder and gives it another try. Always good to have an insider on the farm who can see something that most fans can’t. 

[Ghostsof1915]

One of the points brought up today was simply this. The main complaint of when the Canucks didn't own the AHL club is when Canucks prospects were playing for the Chicago Wolves. Was that prospects were taking a back seat to AHL vets to ice a competitive team. The whole point of owning an AHL club is then your prospects can get priority on ice time, so they can make mistakes and learn the pro game. Yes that might mean more loses, but in for the sake of player development in the long run. 

 

 

[canucklehead44]

I doubt he even got 100 minutes.

 

The Finnish league and AHL are comparable. Granlund for example went from 10 goals in 50 games in the Finnish league and scored 25 in 52 the next year in the AHL.

 

It isn’t just Palmu. Lind and Gadjovich who looked like steals in the second round are having similar issues. Even Dahlen struggled early but seemed to have been a step above the others and now he is crushing it. 

 

Seems like our AHL coaching staff sucks. 

[mll]

There were certainly reasons for Palmu to not get into more games but there's maybe too much competition on the wings with both prospects and veterans playing primarily that position. 

 

Players with less than 260 pro-games at the start of the season are considered developing players.  Comets are within the veteran rule as they have only 6 veterans and Hamilton injured has yet to play this season.  So they only have 5 veterans with defenceman Sifers.

 

The veterans typically play and so do the Cs so it leaves 4-5 spots for the remaining wingers.  There were injuries and recalls though and Gaunce has been playing C lately.  Not sure if others like Gaunce also switch between wing and C.

 

Contract         Veteran C                  Developing C                         Veteran winger                               Developing winger

AHL               (Hamilton)      Darcy, Woods, Cameranesi                  Bancks                                        MacMaster, Arseneau

NHL                  Gaunce                                Kero                         Boucher, Gaunce, Archibald             Lind Dahlen Gadjovich Palmu Jasek MacEwen (Carcone Palmu)

 

MacMaster is a 22-year old rookie who has played 22 games this season.  Arseneau had about 50 AHL games at the start of the season.  Cameranesi is on a PTO and started the season in the ECHL and had about 70 AHL games before signing his PTO.  Darcy had ~140 AHL games and Woods ~220 pro-games at the start of the season.  It's mostly not a lot of experience.

[Crabcakes]

I don't see what the problem is.  Palmu is a great story and he's not done yet.  He'll be at camp in September.  I have no doubt about that.  

 

Internal competition is a good thing.  Throw the kids into the blender and the best of them will emerge and make it to the NHL.

 

Look at the culture they're building in the NHL.  Never say die.  We're all applauding the Canucks ability to come from behind and they have done so against some tough teams with excellent defense like Nashville and Columbus.  The same thing is going on in Utica.  

[UticaHockey]

Ryan Johnson confirms what I have watched. Palmu struggled with the physical part of the game against bigger and faster players than what he was used to playing against.  Saying that the AHL coaching staff sucks isn't going to change that fact.

 

 

[higgyfan]

16 minutes ago, UticaHockey said:

Ryan Johnson confirms what I have watched. Palmu struggled with the physical part of the game against bigger and faster players than what he was used to playing against.  Saying that the AHL coaching staff sucks isn't going to change that fact.

 

 

A 5'6 young man that was a 6th round pick in the NHL draft.  Don't know why anyone would be surprised by this situation.  Nobody to blame here, certainly not the Comets or the young man in question.  Palmu has good skills and a lot of heart; just doesn't have the size and strength to play the NA pro game.  It is best for him to go home and get the toi that he needs to improve his game.

[UticaHockey]

5 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

A 5'6 young man that was a 6th round pick in the NHL draft.  Don't know why anyone would be surprised by this situation.  Nobody to blame here, certainly not the Comets or the young man in question.  Palmu has good skills and a lot of heart; just doesn't have the size and strength to play the NA pro game.  It is best for him to go home and get the toi that he needs to improve his game.

100% agree 

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, higgyfan said:

A 5'6 young man that was a 6th round pick in the NHL draft.  Don't know why anyone would be surprised by this situation.  Nobody to blame here, certainly not the Comets or the young man in question.  Palmu has good skills and a lot of heart; just doesn't have the size and strength to play the NA pro game.  It is best for him to go home and get the toi that he needs to improve his game.

*Yet.

 

He's certainly got an uphill battle to ever make the NHL as an (as you pointed out) 5'-6" 6th round pick. But I'm not entirely writing him off either (nor is the organization IMO).

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

 

Above text can also apply to Gadjovich and Lind who have had a rough start to their AHL tenure with the Comets alongside Palmu.

 

Going to be a lot of growing pains with these prospects as they figure out the pro game.  

[krutovsdonut]

for those seeking perspective on this, another undersized prospect, ty ronning got into 8 ahl games this year before being sent down to the echl.   ronning is a 2016 pick but is the same 1997 birth age as palmu who was drafted overage. 

 

nobody has said boo about ronning or suggested it signals bust in any way.  it's a totally logical predictable outcome for an undersized player late round draft pick trying to break into the ahl.  it is a tough adjustment for a small player which is why they get drafted late. 

 

in a perfect world the canucks maybe would have liked to see palmu in the zoo so they had flexibility to call him up if he was close, but it's not necessarily the best thing for his development.  being home and in a familiar environment and playing at a higher pro level than the zoo has its advantages too, and i think is definitely fairer for palmu who remains a longshot for the nhl and deserves a chance to establish a craeer for himself in finnish pro hockey in case the nhl does not work out.

 

 

 

 

[J-P]

It makes sense to send Palmu back at this point and get him ice-time, but when Johnson says the best players in the world outside of the NHL play in the AHL it just looks bad and like he doesn't know what he's talking about. KHL and SHL are at least on par with the AHL and SM-Liiga in Finland just below.

 

Of course the AHL is the closest thing to NHL competition in terms of style of play etc. and sure there's lots of good players there and when considering the physical aspects it's a tougher league than the ones in Europe - and a s mentioned especially so for a smaller guy like Palmu - so yeah in most cases it's the best option as an education level before the NHL, but there are literally hundreds and hundreds of players in the other leagues good enough to play in the AHL.

[Quantum]

The problem, honestly, wasn't that this was a coaching issue -- it's that we had too many young Rookies coming to Utica at the same time. Normally, you want to stagger them out, have a few come in at one time. But instead, we had 6 rookies show up all looking for playing time in the AHL after either dominating or showing well in there other leagues. The math says this was inevitable.  Those six players, btw, are Adam Gaudette, Jonathan Dahlen, Lukas Jasek, Kole Lind, Jonah Gadjovich, and Petrus Palmu. Luckily for the Canucks (and Utica), Gaudette is both a C and has played most of the season in Vancouver, so having to juggle him as an AHL rookie, was something the Comets didn't have to worry about as much (except early in the season), though he'll be back once Sutter returns from injury. Gaudette is a step above the others, a C, and is slightly older.

 

But yeah, once you do the math, it's VERY hard to justify icing 5-6 AHL rookies a game in a market (Utica) that expects to win + trying to keep the "winning culture" mantra alive at the AHL level + deal with the overflow of NHL/AHL tweener (Gaunce, Archie, Boucher, Kero) vets that scatter the upper ranks of Utica. Obviously, injuries have opened the door for guys like Jasek and Dahlen to secure more permanent spots in the lineup but that still leaves out Gadjovich/Lind/Palmu.

 

Palmu playing another year in Finland is good. That's another year of pro experience. That's another year to play against men and play meaningful minutes. Dahlen needed an extra year in the ALL. Palmu taking an extra year is fine. It's good for his development and NOT an indictment on Cull or the Canucks. Palmu can always come back at the tail end of the season too once the Liiga has wrapped and if the Comets are making a run at the AHL playoffs.

 

My worry is what to do with Lind/Gadjovich. The ECHL seems like a real option for both of them. And honestly, I'm surprised they haven't gone to Kalamazoo yet. Some very good NHLers have played in the ECHL. It's not a slight on there skill, it's just that they need to play big minutes. If they can't do it in the AHL, might as well do it in the ECHL. Teams like Toronto and Tampa Bay have prospects playing in the ECHL. It's not unheard of. They are still solid prospects with bright futures, but they do need to play.

 

I expect to see Palmu back with the Comets next season, for sure. This is a small detour. I'm not worried. He's a 6th rounder, after all.

[SingleThorn]

Thurs 20th......PP playing his first game this season for TPS ( vs Karpat ). Looks like he's on the 2nd line. Has one assist so far.

[Alflives]

9 minutes ago, SingleThorn said:

Thurs 20th......PP playing his first game this season for TPS ( vs Karpat ). Looks like he's on the 2nd line. Has one assist so far.

I wonder about the purpose of our farm team in Utica.  Clearly PP is a good player.  Maybe we could be developing our young guys better?  

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[JM_]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

I wonder about the purpose of our farm team in Utica.  Clearly PP is a good player.  Maybe we could be developing our young guys better?  

sounds to me like he isn't quite physically ready for the AHL. 

[Fanuck]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

I wonder about the purpose of our farm team in Utica.  Clearly PP is a good player.  Maybe we could be developing our young guys better?  

Our system in Utica/AHL is just fine.  Some players games simply aren't suited for that style.  Doesn't mean their game will never be suited to that style - that's what coaching/practice and game play is for.  PP just wasn't in line (read depth) to get the best out of the system at this time. 

[krutovsdonut]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

I wonder about the purpose of our farm team in Utica.  Clearly PP is a good player.  Maybe we could be developing our young guys better?  

ordinarily i'd chuckle at this, but i think that with the way the nhl is right now, it is a legit question whether the ahl may be more physically challenging than the nhl, especially for rookies.

 

here's a thought experiment for you.  assume pettersson was a late bloomer and was in the ahl this season as the player he is right now, but with a very average pedigree and as a fairly unheralded late round prospect.  the kind who gets little or no protection and sees typical deployment of a new kid .  how would he be doing?  i'd suspect he'd have had a very tough adjustment, likely been injured at least once, and would either only just now be getting attention or even potentially be heading back to sweden.