Petrus Palmu | RW/LW

[Kanukfanatic]

1 minute ago, krutovsdonut said:

ordinarily i'd chuckle at this, but i think that with the way the nhl is right now, it is a legit question whether the ahl may be more physically challenging than the nhl, especially for rookies.

 

here's a thought experiment for you.  assume pettersson was a late bloomer and was in the ahl this season as the player he is right now, but with a very average pedigree and as a fairly unheralded late round prospect.  the kind who gets little or no protection and sees typical deployment of a new kid .  how would he be doing?  i'd suspect he'd have had a very tough adjustment, likely been injured at least once, and would either only just now be getting attention or even potentially be heading back to sweden.

 

The Canuck Tampa was extremely physical. Wilson knocked down 6'7" Oleksiak  in a tough Pens Caps game. There are tons of majorly physical games each week in the NHL.

 

Why do people continue to perpetuate this weird belief the AHL is tougher than the NHL?

 

Is there anything at all, in terms of actual evidence, to support this?  I could not find any. Seriously, I want to know!!

[Nuxfanabroad]

11 minutes ago, Kanukfanatic said:

The Canuck Tampa was extremely physical. Wilson knocked down 6'7" Oleksiak  in a tough Pens Caps game. There are tons of majorly physical games each week in the NHL.

 

Why do people continue to perpetuate this weird belief the AHL is tougher than the NHL?

 

Is there anything at all, in terms of actual evidence, to support this?  I could not find any. Seriously, I want to know!!

Biggest diff I see is maybe 10~20x more media/fan attn for NHL. Less cameras, in AHL thugs can get away with crap(perhaps comparable to NHL coverage about 30 yrs back?)

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Biggest diff I see is maybe 10~20x more media/fan attn for NHL. Less cameras, in AHL thugs can get away with crap(perhaps comparable to NHL coverage about 30 yrs back?)

And the US based teams, which is almost all of them, want the violence.  That goonery sells tickets in those markets, sadly. 

 

[stawns]

4 minutes ago, Kanukfanatic said:

The Canuck Tampa was extremely physical. Wilson knocked down 6'7" Oleksiak  in a tough Pens Caps game. There are tons of majorly physical games each week in the NHL.

 

Why do people continue to perpetuate this weird belief the AHL is tougher than the NHL?

 

Is there anything at all, in terms of actual evidence, to support this?  I could not find any. Seriously, I want to know!!

agreed.......or that the AHL is somehow akin to Slapshot

[-Vintage Canuck-]

Assist from today:

 

[krutovsdonut]

14 minutes ago, Kanukfanatic said:

The Canuck Tampa was extremely physical. Wilson knocked down 6'7" Oleksiak  in a tough Pens Caps game. There are tons of majorly physical games each week in the NHL.

 

Why do people continue to perpetuate this weird belief the AHL is tougher than the NHL?

 

Is there anything at all, in terms of actual evidence, to support this?  I could not find any. Seriously, I want to know!!

accepting your premise that asking a bunch of dumb questions is a valid form of debate i have a couple for you.

 

what does "actual evidence" mean?  does observing nhl and ahl games count?  do i need to record my observations on a spreadsheet?  if so, what format is required?  should i present video tape?  is it necessary that i call witnesses under oath?  please specify what your evidence requirements are for me to mention an idea on the internet?

 

also, where did you look for this actual evidence that you "could not find" in the seven minutes between the time i posted and you answered (assuming you read my post immediately)?  what google searches did you run?  which websites did you review before telling us this?  

 

seriously, i want to know!

 

also, answering you more seriously, i was obviously speculating in a conversational manner,  you are free to disagree with me, but fake seriously demanding evidence ("actual" or otherwise) anytime anyone gently muses about something is basically trolling and preventing people from having discussions here.  

 

 

 

 

[krutovsdonut]

13 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Biggest diff I see is maybe 10~20x more media/fan attn for NHL. Less cameras, in AHL thugs can get away with crap(perhaps comparable to NHL coverage about 30 yrs back?)

the north american pro game is changing due to the reality of concussions and i think the nhl is leading the change and setting the tone for the other leagues.  it's not a criticism of the ahl to say i think they will be slower to adapt because they lack the incentives, resources and people to do much more than follow the nhl's lead. 

[Kanukfanatic]

2 hours ago, krutovsdonut said:

accepting your premise that asking a bunch of dumb questions is a valid form of debate i have a couple for you.

 

what does "actual evidence" mean?  does observing nhl and ahl games count?  do i need to record my observations on a spreadsheet?  if so, what format is required?  should i present video tape?  is it necessary that i call witnesses under oath?  please specify what your evidence requirements are for me to mention an idea on the internet?

 

also, where did you look for this actual evidence that you "could not find" in the seven minutes between the time i posted and you answered (assuming you read my post immediately)?  what google searches did you run?  which websites did you review before telling us this?  

 

seriously, i want to know!

 

also, answering you more seriously, i was obviously speculating in a conversational manner,  you are free to disagree with me, but fake seriously demanding evidence ("actual" or otherwise) anytime anyone gently muses about something is basically trolling and preventing people from having discussions here.  

 

 

 

 

1. Evidence: numbers of concussions in each league per year and per game. You know. Actual statistics. You watching a game doesn't count obviously.

 

2. I was looking for that type of evidence on the internet over the past week because this question arose about a week ago. No...you were not he first one nor the only one to make some assumption the AHL is tougher. People have been saying this for awhile based on nothing (or so it seems on nothing as no evidence is ever produced other than someone's subjective opinion).

 

This has been a topic for a long time and no one ever produces any evidence.

 

I wasn't specifically going after you and if that is how it seemed then I am stating that I was not going after you.  I just got tired, I suppose, of the same old line that the AHL is tougher based on nothing that I am aware of.

 

What sometimes follows is some statement like "yeah it would be better for prospect A to go straight to the NHL and not the AHL because that is full of goons". Again, there is never any evidence that I have ever seen.

 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2018 by Kanukfanatic

[rizzuto&hatoum]

PP can give a first hand scouting report on Kakko when he returns from the WJC.

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

11 hours ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

Assist from today:

 

Nice play by the original “Petey” (Gadjovich called Palmu “Petey” for years before Elias Pettersson came along). Oh well, nicknames can change. As can numbers (since Jasek wore #40 for years, but now wears #9 in Utica).

 

It’s Elias Pettersson’s world, after all.

 

The rest of us (Palmu and Jasek included) are just living in it.  

 

Anyway, back to what I was meaning to post about.

 

Palmu started on TPS’s 2nd line and played 18:33 TOI (highest icetime among forwards). Primary assist on the game winning goal. Finished +1.

 

Yeah, I’m thinking the move back to Finland was the right decision.  

[alfstonker]

7 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Nice play by the original “Petey” (Gadjovich called Palmu “Petey” for years before Elias Pettersson came along). Oh well, nicknames can change. As can numbers (since Jasek wore #40 for years, but now wears #9 in Utica).

 

It’s Elias Pettersson’s world, after all.

 

The rest of us (Palmu and Jasek included) are just living in it.  

 

Anyway, back to what I was meaning to post about.

 

Palmu started on TPS’s 2nd line and played 18:33 TOI (highest icetime among forwards). Primary assist on the game winning goal. Finished +1.

 

Yeah, I’m thinking the move back to Finland was the right decision.  

Funny, I'm still thinking the opposite.

If he is going to make the bigs, he needs to be soaking up the AHL brand of hockey and acclimatising to the more physical style. That goes doubly imo for someone of Palmu's size (I know he is built like a brick but that has to be translated when he comes to the AHL - obviously it wasn't)

 

We needed to help him to PLAY HERE not accept that he can't and send him back to a more comfortable environment.

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

4 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

Funny, I'm still thinking the opposite.

If he is going to make the bigs, he needs to be soaking up the AHL brand of hockey and acclimatising to the more physical style. That goes doubly imo for someone of Palmu's size (I know he is built like a brick but that has to be translated when he comes to the AHL - obviously it wasn't)

 

We needed to help him to PLAY HERE not accept that he can't and send him back to a more comfortable environment.

Well, yeah, ideally he gets his minutes here. But failing that, 18+ minutes a night, and a top-6/PP role, is better than 4th lining it and healthy scratches with the Comets. This kid needs to play, and that just didn’t seem to be happening in Utica. He’s had his taste of NA (NA pro that is, since he’s already well seasoned in the NA game from junior), and he can hit it again next year, hopefully with some solid development under his belt from playing the remainder of the season with TPS.

Edited December 21, 2018 by SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME

[alfstonker]

10 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Well, yeah, ideally he gets his minutes here. But failing that, 18+ minutes a night, and a top-6/PP role, is better than 4th lining it and healthy scratches with the Comets. This kid needs to play, and that just didn’t seem to be happening in Utica. He’s had his taste of NA, and he can hit it again next year, hopefully with some solid development under his belt from playing the remainder of the season with TPS.

I know what you are saying SID but the reason he was not getting the minutes here was his failure to acclimatise/adapt/catch on/translate his game - whatever.

 

In a situation like that the coaches should be analysing the reasons WHY and working on improving them/him in situ so that they can gauge his progress and give him encouragement as he improves

He came over here on a high so imo there is no point sending him back into an environment which he may have found it easy to thrive in but obviously did not prepare him properly for the transition to NA.

If he had had a mediocre season last season in Finland then I would agree and accept he needed to improve his game in Finland in order to prepare him for the AHL/NHL but that wasn't the case.

Anyway we can only wait and see how it all turns out.

Edited December 21, 2018 by alfstonker

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

43 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

I know what you are saying SID but the reason he was not getting the minutes here was his failure to acclimatise/adapt/catch on/translate his game - whatever.

 

In a situation like that the coaches should be analysing the reasons WHY and working on improving them/him in situ so that they can gauge his progress and give him encouragement as he improves

He came over here on a high so imo there is no point sending him back into an environment which he may have found it easy to thrive in but obviously did not prepare him properly for the transition to NA.

If he had had a mediocre season last season in Finland then I would agree and accept he needed to improve his game in Finland in order to prepare him for the AHL/NHL but that wasn't the case.

Anyway we can only wait and see how it all turns out.

I agree with some of what you’re saying, but I also think a portion of the “failure to adapt” issue rests on the side of management/coaching. I mean, was it really the best usage of Palmu to play him with grinders, give him limited PP opportunities, and otherwise use him for much of this season in checking/energy roles? And with management knowing they had a bunch of young wingers coming in this year, wouldn’t it have made sense to really invest in the centre ice position, to really give those youngsters their best shot at success when they were in the lineup? 

 

Obviously, it would have been the best case if Palmu had been able to grab the bull by the horns, impress from day one, and singlehandedly drive offence on a line, regardless of his linemates and deployment. And clearly he couldn’t do that. He still has a ways to go before he’s that kind of player at the AHL level (if he ever becomes that kind of player). He has to adjust to the speed of the AHL game, working with less time and space, and he also needs to get stronger along the wall. He definitely needs some work in several aspects of his game. But I also don’t feel like he was always given his best chance to improve and succeed. To maximize his development, he needed more chances to play with highly skilled players, especially down the middle, and he needed more frequent deployment that allowed him to showcase his offensive abilities. And what he really needs is icetime and opportunities, which he wasn’t getting in Utica (at least he wasn’t getting enough of them—and RJ has said as much).

 

I would agree that Palmu still has a ways to go in his development. And the player bears some of the responsibility for his failure to perform well enough to catch on and force his way on the ice through the quality of his play. I just don’t necessarily believe that enough was invested in giving him (and some of the other young wingers) their very best chance to succeed, especially when it comes to the roster construction and player acquisitions (specifically at C) going into this season.

 

Anyway, given the current situation, and all that’s happened to-date, I think TPS is probably the best spot for him right now. He’ll play a ton over there and be used in key roles. Hopefully he has a productive season half in Liiga, and then comes back to the AHL next year with a clearer idea of what he needs to do to translate his game. And hopefully management comes back with a clearer plan on what they need to do, in terms of player personnel, to make Utica the very best landing spot it can be for our developing players, while also providing the highest quality on-ice product possible for Comets fans.

 

Ironically, there actually seems to be more opportunity for young players on the Comets wings now than there was to start the season. And down the middle, the depth and quality of the Comets centremen looks to be improving, with Gaunce in place, and potentially Gaudette joining the Comets, whenever Sutter gets healthy. So it’s almost like Palmu is leaving the team just as things might have been falling into place to give him his best shot at success. However, even if the planets did end up aligning perfectly this season to create an ideal lineup opportunity for him to showcase his talents, I’m not sure that Palmu would have actually been given that chance (had he remained in Utica). And I’m not sure he’d have been ready to make the most of such an opportunity, and even deserving of it (versus some of the others on the team) right now anyway, for a variety of reasons.

 

When it comes to Palmu this season in Utica, the blame can easily get spread around, and the excuses (many of them legitimate) can also get spread around, and ultimately, sizeable portions, from both categories, will land on all the parties involved—player, coaches, and management. There is no villain in this story. I think they all tried their best. And unfortunately, they all came up a little bit short (no pun intended ).

[alfstonker]

17 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

I agree with some of what you’re saying, but I also think a portion of the “failure to adapt” issue rests on the side of management/coaching. I mean, was it really the best usage of Palmu to play him with grinders, give him limited PP opportunities, and otherwise use him for much of this season in checking/energy roles? And with management knowing they had a bunch of young wingers coming in this year, wouldn’t it have made sense to really invest in the centre ice position, to really give those youngsters their best shot at success when they were in the lineup? 

 

Obviously, it would have been the best case if Palmu had been able to grab the bull by the horns, impress from day one, and singlehandedly drive offence on a line, regardless of his linemates and deployment. And clearly he couldn’t do that. He still has a ways to go before he’s that kind of player at the AHL level (if he ever becomes that kind of player). He has to adjust to the speed of the AHL game, working with less time and space, and he also needs to get stronger along the wall. He definitely needs some work in several aspects of his game. But I also don’t feel like he was always given his best chance to improve and succeed. To maximize his development, he needed more chances to play with highly skilled players, especially down the middle, and he needed more frequent deployment that allowed him to showcase his offensive abilities. And what he really needs is icetime and opportunities, which he wasn’t getting in Utica (at least he wasn’t getting enough of them—and RJ has said as much).

 

I would agree that Palmu still has a ways to go in his development. And the player bears some of the responsibility for his failure to perform well enough to catch on and force his way on the ice through the quality of his play. I just don’t necessarily believe that enough was invested in giving him (and some of the other young wingers) their very best chance to succeed, especially when it comes to the roster construction and player acquisitions (specifically at C) going into this season.

 

Anyway, given the current situation, and all that’s happened to-date, I think TPS is probably the best spot for him right now. He’ll play a ton over there and be used in key roles. Hopefully he has a productive season half in Liiga, and then comes back to the AHL next year with a clearer idea of what he needs to do to translate his game. And hopefully management comes back with a clearer plan on what they need to do, in terms of player personnel, to make Utica the very best landing spot it can be for our developing players, while also providing the highest quality on-ice product possible for Comets fans.

 

Ironically, there actually seems to be more opportunity for young players on the Comets wings now than there was to start the season. And down the middle, the depth and quality of the Comets centremen looks to be improving, with Gaunce in place, and potentially Gaudette joining the Comets, whenever Sutter gets healthy. So it’s almost like Palmu is leaving the team just as things might have been falling into place to give him his best shot at success. However, even if the planets did end up aligning perfectly this season to create an ideal lineup opportunity for him to showcase his talents, I’m not sure that Palmu would have actually been given that chance (had he remained in Utica). And I’m not sure he’d have been ready to make the most of such an opportunity, and even deserving of it (versus some of the others on the team) right now anyway, for a variety of reasons.

 

When it comes to Palmu this season in Utica, the blame can easily get spread around, and the excuses (many of them legitimate) can also get spread around, and ultimately, sizeable portions, from both categories, will land on all the parties involved—player, coaches, and management. There is no villain in this story. I think they all tried their best. And unfortunately, they all came up a little bit short (no pun intended ).

I wasn't aware of how they were playing him. If that is the case why will it be any different when he comes back? Also remember Bo started on the 4th line although I never looked on DD as a grinder - far from it.

If Gaudette is sent down it will break his heart. I think he has acquitted himself admirably. But I suppose he will be made to understand that he is only there because he is not subject to waivers and I agree I think he will give the Comets a massive lift with his skill, speed and energy.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[cyoung]

2 hours ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

This is good for him, hopefully he can keep it up and they continue to give him these opportunities!

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[-Vintage Canuck-]

Assist from yesterday:

 

[KKnight]

9 hours ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

Assist from yesterday:

 

Smart player. I'm not reading in to the slow start in Utica. He's extremely shifty, high offensive iq, built like a brick $&!#house for such a small guy. Could stand to work on strength, learning how to win board battles the Petey way, his shot. I really think we have a steal in Palmu, at least a top 6 lw. He would probably compliment Bo extremely well.