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Tomato Pajamas

Petrus Palmu | RW/LW

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The problem, honestly, wasn't that this was a coaching issue -- it's that we had too many young Rookies coming to Utica at the same time. Normally, you want to stagger them out, have a few come in at one time. But instead, we had 6 rookies show up all looking for playing time in the AHL after either dominating or showing well in there other leagues. The math says this was inevitable.  Those six players, btw, are Adam Gaudette, Jonathan Dahlen, Lukas Jasek, Kole Lind, Jonah Gadjovich, and Petrus Palmu. Luckily for the Canucks (and Utica), Gaudette is both a C and has played most of the season in Vancouver, so having to juggle him as an AHL rookie, was something the Comets didn't have to worry about as much (except early in the season), though he'll be back once Sutter returns from injury. Gaudette is a step above the others, a C, and is slightly older.

 

But yeah, once you do the math, it's VERY hard to justify icing 5-6 AHL rookies a game in a market (Utica) that expects to win + trying to keep the "winning culture" mantra alive at the AHL level + deal with the overflow of NHL/AHL tweener (Gaunce, Archie, Boucher, Kero) vets that scatter the upper ranks of Utica. Obviously, injuries have opened the door for guys like Jasek and Dahlen to secure more permanent spots in the lineup but that still leaves out Gadjovich/Lind/Palmu.

 

Palmu playing another year in Finland is good. That's another year of pro experience. That's another year to play against men and play meaningful minutes. Dahlen needed an extra year in the ALL. Palmu taking an extra year is fine. It's good for his development and NOT an indictment on Cull or the Canucks. Palmu can always come back at the tail end of the season too once the Liiga has wrapped and if the Comets are making a run at the AHL playoffs.

 

My worry is what to do with Lind/Gadjovich. The ECHL seems like a real option for both of them. And honestly, I'm surprised they haven't gone to Kalamazoo yet. Some very good NHLers have played in the ECHL. It's not a slight on there skill, it's just that they need to play big minutes. If they can't do it in the AHL, might as well do it in the ECHL. Teams like Toronto and Tampa Bay have prospects playing in the ECHL. It's not unheard of. They are still solid prospects with bright futures, but they do need to play.

 

I expect to see Palmu back with the Comets next season, for sure. This is a small detour. I'm not worried. He's a 6th rounder, after all.

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Thurs 20th......PP playing his first game this season for TPS ( vs Karpat ). Looks like he's on the 2nd line. Has one assist so far.

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9 minutes ago, SingleThorn said:

Thurs 20th......PP playing his first game this season for TPS ( vs Karpat ). Looks like he's on the 2nd line. Has one assist so far.

I wonder about the purpose of our farm team in Utica.  Clearly PP is a good player.  Maybe we could be developing our young guys better?  

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1 hour ago, Alflives said:

I wonder about the purpose of our farm team in Utica.  Clearly PP is a good player.  Maybe we could be developing our young guys better?  

sounds to me like he isn't quite physically ready for the AHL. 

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1 hour ago, Alflives said:

I wonder about the purpose of our farm team in Utica.  Clearly PP is a good player.  Maybe we could be developing our young guys better?  

Our system in Utica/AHL is just fine.  Some players games simply aren't suited for that style.  Doesn't mean their game will never be suited to that style - that's what coaching/practice and game play is for.  PP just wasn't in line (read depth) to get the best out of the system at this time

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1 hour ago, Alflives said:

I wonder about the purpose of our farm team in Utica.  Clearly PP is a good player.  Maybe we could be developing our young guys better?  

ordinarily i'd chuckle at this, but i think that with the way the nhl is right now, it is a legit question whether the ahl may be more physically challenging than the nhl, especially for rookies.

 

here's a thought experiment for you.  assume pettersson was a late bloomer and was in the ahl this season as the player he is right now, but with a very average pedigree and as a fairly unheralded late round prospect.  the kind who gets little or no protection and sees typical deployment of a new kid .  how would he be doing?  i'd suspect he'd have had a very tough adjustment, likely been injured at least once, and would either only just now be getting attention or even potentially be heading back to sweden.

 

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1 minute ago, krutovsdonut said:

ordinarily i'd chuckle at this, but i think that with the way the nhl is right now, it is a legit question whether the ahl may be more physically challenging than the nhl, especially for rookies.

 

here's a thought experiment for you.  assume pettersson was a late bloomer and was in the ahl this season as the player he is right now, but with a very average pedigree and as a fairly unheralded late round prospect.  the kind who gets little or no protection and sees typical deployment of a new kid .  how would he be doing?  i'd suspect he'd have had a very tough adjustment, likely been injured at least once, and would either only just now be getting attention or even potentially be heading back to sweden.

 

The Canuck Tampa was extremely physical. Wilson knocked down 6'7" Oleksiak  in a tough Pens Caps game. There are tons of majorly physical games each week in the NHL.

 

Why do people continue to perpetuate this weird belief the AHL is tougher than the NHL?

 

Is there anything at all, in terms of actual evidence, to support this?  I could not find any. Seriously, I want to know!!

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11 minutes ago, Kanukfanatic said:

The Canuck Tampa was extremely physical. Wilson knocked down 6'7" Oleksiak  in a tough Pens Caps game. There are tons of majorly physical games each week in the NHL.

 

Why do people continue to perpetuate this weird belief the AHL is tougher than the NHL?

 

Is there anything at all, in terms of actual evidence, to support this?  I could not find any. Seriously, I want to know!!

Biggest diff I see is maybe 10~20x more media/fan attn for NHL. Less cameras, in AHL thugs can get away with crap(perhaps comparable to NHL coverage about 30 yrs back?)

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2 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Biggest diff I see is maybe 10~20x more media/fan attn for NHL. Less cameras, in AHL thugs can get away with crap(perhaps comparable to NHL coverage about 30 yrs back?)

And the US based teams, which is almost all of them, want the violence.  That goonery sells tickets in those markets, sadly. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Kanukfanatic said:

The Canuck Tampa was extremely physical. Wilson knocked down 6'7" Oleksiak  in a tough Pens Caps game. There are tons of majorly physical games each week in the NHL.

 

Why do people continue to perpetuate this weird belief the AHL is tougher than the NHL?

 

Is there anything at all, in terms of actual evidence, to support this?  I could not find any. Seriously, I want to know!!

agreed.......or that the AHL is somehow akin to Slapshot

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14 minutes ago, Kanukfanatic said:

The Canuck Tampa was extremely physical. Wilson knocked down 6'7" Oleksiak  in a tough Pens Caps game. There are tons of majorly physical games each week in the NHL.

 

Why do people continue to perpetuate this weird belief the AHL is tougher than the NHL?

 

Is there anything at all, in terms of actual evidence, to support this?  I could not find any. Seriously, I want to know!!

accepting your premise that asking a bunch of dumb questions is a valid form of debate i have a couple for you.

 

what does "actual evidence" mean?  does observing nhl and ahl games count?  do i need to record my observations on a spreadsheet?  if so, what format is required?  should i present video tape?  is it necessary that i call witnesses under oath?  please specify what your evidence requirements are for me to mention an idea on the internet?

 

also, where did you look for this actual evidence that you "could not find" in the seven minutes between the time i posted and you answered (assuming you read my post immediately)?  what google searches did you run?  which websites did you review before telling us this?  

 

seriously, i want to know!

 

also, answering you more seriously, i was obviously speculating in a conversational manner,  you are free to disagree with me, but fake seriously demanding evidence ("actual" or otherwise) anytime anyone gently muses about something is basically trolling and preventing people from having discussions here.  

 

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Biggest diff I see is maybe 10~20x more media/fan attn for NHL. Less cameras, in AHL thugs can get away with crap(perhaps comparable to NHL coverage about 30 yrs back?)

the north american pro game is changing due to the reality of concussions and i think the nhl is leading the change and setting the tone for the other leagues.  it's not a criticism of the ahl to say i think they will be slower to adapt because they lack the incentives, resources and people to do much more than follow the nhl's lead. 

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2 hours ago, krutovsdonut said:

accepting your premise that asking a bunch of dumb questions is a valid form of debate i have a couple for you.

 

what does "actual evidence" mean?  does observing nhl and ahl games count?  do i need to record my observations on a spreadsheet?  if so, what format is required?  should i present video tape?  is it necessary that i call witnesses under oath?  please specify what your evidence requirements are for me to mention an idea on the internet?

 

also, where did you look for this actual evidence that you "could not find" in the seven minutes between the time i posted and you answered (assuming you read my post immediately)?  what google searches did you run?  which websites did you review before telling us this?  

 

seriously, i want to know!

 

also, answering you more seriously, i was obviously speculating in a conversational manner,  you are free to disagree with me, but fake seriously demanding evidence ("actual" or otherwise) anytime anyone gently muses about something is basically trolling and preventing people from having discussions here.  

 

 

 

 

1. Evidence: numbers of concussions in each league per year and per game. You know. Actual statistics. You watching a game doesn't count obviously.

 

2. I was looking for that type of evidence on the internet over the past week because this question arose about a week ago. No...you were not he first one nor the only one to make some assumption the AHL is tougher. People have been saying this for awhile based on nothing (or so it seems on nothing as no evidence is ever produced other than someone's subjective opinion).

 

This has been a topic for a long time and no one ever produces any evidence.

 

I wasn't specifically going after you and if that is how it seemed then I am stating that I was not going after you.  I just got tired, I suppose, of the same old line that the AHL is tougher based on nothing that I am aware of.

 

What sometimes follows is some statement like "yeah it would be better for prospect A to go straight to the NHL and not the AHL because that is full of goons". Again, there is never any evidence that I have ever seen.

 

 

 

Edited by Kanukfanatic
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11 hours ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

Assist from today:

 

Nice play by the original “Petey” (Gadjovich called Palmu “Petey” for years before Elias Pettersson came along). Oh well, nicknames can change. As can numbers (since Jasek wore #40 for years, but now wears #9 in Utica).

 

It’s Elias Pettersson’s world, after all.

 

The rest of us (Palmu and Jasek included) are just living in it. ;) 

 

Anyway, back to what I was meaning to post about.

 

Palmu started on TPS’s 2nd line and played 18:33 TOI (highest icetime among forwards). Primary assist on the game winning goal. Finished +1.

 

Yeah, I’m thinking the move back to Finland was the right decision. :) 

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7 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Nice play by the original “Petey” (Gadjovich called Palmu “Petey” for years before Elias Pettersson came along). Oh well, nicknames can change. As can numbers (since Jasek wore #40 for years, but now wears #9 in Utica).

 

It’s Elias Pettersson’s world, after all.

 

The rest of us (Palmu and Jasek included) are just living in it. ;) 

 

Anyway, back to what I was meaning to post about.

 

Palmu started on TPS’s 2nd line and played 18:33 TOI (highest icetime among forwards). Primary assist on the game winning goal. Finished +1.

 

Yeah, I’m thinking the move back to Finland was the right decision. :) 

Funny, I'm still thinking the opposite.

If he is going to make the bigs, he needs to be soaking up the AHL brand of hockey and acclimatising to the more physical style. That goes doubly imo for someone of Palmu's size (I know he is built like a brick but that has to be translated when he comes to the AHL - obviously it wasn't)

 

We needed to help him to PLAY HERE not accept that he can't and send him back to a more comfortable environment.

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4 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

Funny, I'm still thinking the opposite.

If he is going to make the bigs, he needs to be soaking up the AHL brand of hockey and acclimatising to the more physical style. That goes doubly imo for someone of Palmu's size (I know he is built like a brick but that has to be translated when he comes to the AHL - obviously it wasn't)

 

We needed to help him to PLAY HERE not accept that he can't and send him back to a more comfortable environment.

Well, yeah, ideally he gets his minutes here. But failing that, 18+ minutes a night, and a top-6/PP role, is better than 4th lining it and healthy scratches with the Comets. This kid needs to play, and that just didn’t seem to be happening in Utica. He’s had his taste of NA (NA pro that is, since he’s already well seasoned in the NA game from junior), and he can hit it again next year, hopefully with some solid development under his belt from playing the remainder of the season with TPS.

Edited by SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME

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10 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Well, yeah, ideally he gets his minutes here. But failing that, 18+ minutes a night, and a top-6/PP role, is better than 4th lining it and healthy scratches with the Comets. This kid needs to play, and that just didn’t seem to be happening in Utica. He’s had his taste of NA, and he can hit it again next year, hopefully with some solid development under his belt from playing the remainder of the season with TPS.

I know what you are saying SID but the reason he was not getting the minutes here was his failure to acclimatise/adapt/catch on/translate his game - whatever.

 

In a situation like that the coaches should be analysing the reasons WHY and working on improving them/him in situ so that they can gauge his progress and give him encouragement as he improves

He came over here on a high so imo there is no point sending him back into an environment which he may have found it easy to thrive in but obviously did not prepare him properly for the transition to NA.

If he had had a mediocre season last season in Finland then I would agree and accept he needed to improve his game in Finland in order to prepare him for the AHL/NHL but that wasn't the case.

Anyway we can only wait and see how it all turns out.

Edited by alfstonker

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