tas Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 1 minute ago, Tre Mac said: I hate this argument. There is no guarantee who Benning would've drafted with that pick. Plus that 2nd could've garnered a better player on another team if he wanted to trade it away. He lost that trade, along with the Forsling and Bonino deals. It's no biggie, I doubt any of those trades will cripple this franchise and every GM makes mistakes from time to time. It's all on how they rebound and Benning rebounded quite nicely last TDL. I rather a GM that can scout and draft than one that can wheel and deal and we have that in Benning. you're right, there's no guarantee who he would have picked. but he knew the players that were available and he felt that vey had a better shot at making an impact than they did. with I believe 2 exceptions from that entire second round, he was correct. and how do you know he could have got something better with that 2nd from another team? do you really believe he didn't do any due diligence to see what was available on the market and for what cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cripplereh Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Hunwick would be decent for a year or two, TDL guy could get us a 3rd or 4th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIC_CITY Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 6 minutes ago, tas said: you're right, there's no guarantee who he would have picked. but he knew the players that were available and he felt that vey had a better shot at making an impact than they did. with I believe 2 exceptions from that entire second round, he was correct. and how do you know he could have got something better with that 2nd from another team? do you really believe he didn't do any due diligence to see what was available on the market and for what cost? I think what it comes down to is that you would hope Benning could get a better return on his investment (in both deals). But I guess you are right in that technically speaking, he didn't really lose either trade. Neither team did very well. But they're nothing to get bent out of shape over. You win some, you lose some and when you look at Benning's body of work as a whole, I think he's done a good enough job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 12 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said: Heaven help us If Benning actually does his job and improves the team. He should then logically go out and find the worst UFA plugs out there. Hunwick's just too good -- bring back Bartkowski. Team does worse? Incompetent, fire him. Team does better? Incompetent, fire him. It is the old argument. Should a team try to do as well as possible now -- the "win now" philosophy? Or should the team focus on rebuilding toward another window of opportunity? Some people will say "do both" but that is misleading as there clearly is a tradeoff. (But it is possible to do neither.) Focusing on "win now" makes it harder to rebuild. Among other things, you get lower draft picks and you are less willing to trade players for picks or prospects at the deadline. I have favoured the rebuild strategy from Day 1 of the Benning regime and I have therefore been discouraged by many of his decisions that are focussed on "win now". But I recognize that some people favour the "win now" approach. Let's agree to disagree without getting hostile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, JamesB said: It is the old argument. Should a team try to do as well as possible now -- the "win now" philosophy? Or should the team focus on rebuilding toward another window of opportunity? Some people will say "do both" but that is misleading logical error as there clearly is a tradeoff. (But it is possible to do neither.) Focusing on "win now" makes it harder to rebuild. Among other things, you get lower draft picks and you are less willing to trade players for picks or prospects at the deadline. I have favoured the rebuild strategy from Day 1 of the Benning regime and I have therefore been discouraged by many of his decisions that are focussed on "win now". But I recognize that some people favour the "win now" approach. Let's agree to disagree without getting hostile. the goal should be to win every year. in order to do that you have to build from within and be willing to move assets when it makes the most sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIC_CITY Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, JamesB said: It is the old argument. Should a team try to do as well as possible now -- the "win now" philosophy? Or should the team focus on rebuilding toward another window of opportunity? Some people will say "do both" but that is misleading logical error as there clearly is a tradeoff. (But it is possible to do neither.) Focusing on "win now" makes it harder to rebuild. Among other things, you get lower draft picks and you are less willing to trade players for picks or prospects at the deadline. I have favoured the rebuild strategy from Day 1 of the Benning regime and I have therefore been discouraged by many of his decisions that are focussed on "win now". But I recognize that some people favour the "win now" approach. Let's agree to disagree without getting hostile. One thing that we will never know for sure is the level of involvement from ownership. Obviously they want butts in seats and losing isn't conducive to that. Benning may have had orders to ice a competitive team, rather than a full tear down/rebuild. But regardless of any hypothetical orders, he's made some significant strides in the last year or two. Sure it would be nice to get out from that Eriksson contract, but it's not exactly crippling our franchise. Another couple of years of solid drafting and we should be well on our way to building a contender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 29 minutes ago, lmm said: been using it around the pool table since the 70s Fair enough, lmm. Works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancouver Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 20 minutes ago, JamesB said: It is the old argument. Should a team try to do as well as possible now -- the "win now" philosophy? Or should the team focus on rebuilding toward another window of opportunity? Some people will say "do both" but that is misleading as there clearly is a tradeoff. (But it is possible to do neither.) Focusing on "win now" makes it harder to rebuild. Among other things, you get lower draft picks and you are less willing to trade players for picks or prospects at the deadline. I have favoured the rebuild strategy from Day 1 of the Benning regime and I have therefore been discouraged by many of his decisions that are focussed on "win now". But I recognize that some people favour the "win now" approach. Let's agree to disagree without getting hostile. Seems pretty simple really. Sign younger players who have upside but won't cost a ton or command long term contracts. Maybe a couple stop gap vets to help while the kids develop, draft well, rinse repeat until you've assembled a solid young core. That's when you start to look at bringing in the odd big ticket ufa to " put you over the top". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 1 hour ago, VIC_CITY said: One thing that we will never know for sure is the level of involvement from ownership. Obviously they want butts in seats and losing isn't conducive to that. Benning may have had orders to ice a competitive team, rather than a full tear down/rebuild. But regardless of any hypothetical orders, he's made some significant strides in the last year or two. Sure it would be nice to get out from that Eriksson contract, but it's not exactly crippling our franchise. Another couple of years of solid drafting and we should be well on our way to building a contender. I agree that this year (2017) has been a good rebuilding year with good acquisitions at the deadline and a good draft. I also agree that we need something similar next year and, if possible, the year after. By then a good young core should be in place. Horvat, Boeser, and Pettersson look like key forwards for that core, and we can reasonably hope that the group of Dahlen, Goldobin, Lind, Gadjovich, Baertschi, Granlund, maybe Virtanen, maybe Gaudette yields at least two additional guys who can be top 6 forwards on a good team. On D, we are hoping Juolevi, Stecher, and Hutton all become good top 4 Ds, and there are a lots of other D prospect who have a chance to be legit top 4 Ds. And the goaltending succession looks reasonable. We still need another really good first pairing type D and another high-scoring first line type forward to fill out a good young core. We could also use some more toughness or at least physical play. Let's hope that we make additional strides toward that in 2018. If that means trading Tanev or Gudbranson at the deadline, I would do it. Those guys are valuable assets but that is what it takes to do a rebuild, as with Hanson and Burrows last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanisleryan Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 4 hours ago, DoughtysCheck said: he's a meh player. Its going to be a meh season so he'll fit right in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrible.dee Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 God god.... FIRE BENNING!!! What else does he need to do to show you he is incompetent? This is a bad joke, we have the league's worst GM, AND HE WON'T GO AWAY!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrible.dee Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 1 hour ago, cripplereh said: Hunwick would be decent for a year or two, TDL guy could get us a 3rd or 4th Wow Hey, you can pay me $100 to come over and watch me clip my toenails Should be decent, you can take 3 or 4 home with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, terrible.dee said: God god.... FIRE BENNING!!! What else does he need to do to show you he is incompetent? This is a bad joke, we have the league's worst GM, AND HE WON'T GO AWAY!! someone give this shrill, shrieking drama queen a valium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHYCHRUN Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 A 30 yr old under sized stay at home guy who's looking for a 6 yr contract. NO THANK YOU ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 23 minutes ago, CHYCHRUN said: A 30 yr old under sized stay at home guy who's looking for a 6 yr contract. NO THANK YOU ! They can smell those crispy bacon wrapped contracts league wide now broskie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Am.Ironman Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 4 hours ago, apollo said: Hope you're right about Olli and Jake. Me loving Sbeezus has nothing to do with the fact that he was over paid by our GM. Same goes for Miller... the guy had 0 options and Vancouver was his last choice. Should have been much less cap hit. Anyways, I really hope JB leads us to a cup in the next 3 years. Both of Sbisa's and Miller's cap hit have absolutely ZERO effect on us now so I am not sure what you are complaining about. We needed Miller and if he wasn't getting paid 6 he would be paid 5mill, Sbisa may have been over paid by half a million AAV. You are grasping at straws to complain about an extra 1.5 million in cap space? What would you have have done with all that extra room over the last 3 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
combover Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Meh. Rather see players with a future here than this years version of Larsen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIC_CITY Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 1 hour ago, terrible.dee said: God god.... FIRE BENNING!!! What else does he need to do to show you he is incompetent? This is a bad joke, we have the league's worst GM, AND HE WON'T GO AWAY!! I'm all out of -1s...can someone spot me theirs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIC_CITY Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 18 minutes ago, I.Am.Ironman said: Both of Sbisa's and Miller's cap hit have absolutely ZERO effect on us now so I am not sure what you are complaining about. We needed Miller and if he wasn't getting paid 6 he would be paid 5mill, Sbisa may have been over paid by half a million AAV. You are grasping at straws to complain about an extra 1.5 million in cap space? What would you have have done with all that extra room over the last 3 years? Clearly that $1.5M cost us the stanley cup. Oh and swapping Bonino out for Sutter like that other guy was saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 2 hours ago, JamesB said: It is the old argument. Should a team try to do as well as possible now -- the "win now" philosophy? Or should the team focus on rebuilding toward another window of opportunity? Some people will say "do both" but that is misleading as there clearly is a tradeoff. (But it is possible to do neither.) Focusing on "win now" makes it harder to rebuild. Among other things, you get lower draft picks and you are less willing to trade players for picks or prospects at the deadline. I have favoured the rebuild strategy from Day 1 of the Benning regime and I have therefore been discouraged by many of his decisions that are focussed on "win now". But I recognize that some people favour the "win now" approach. Let's agree to disagree without getting hostile. "We need someone at this position. Instead of this decent guy, let's sign this scrub instead so we can have a bad season." Said no GM ever. EVER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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