(Discussion) Are We in on Will Butcher?

[Dixon Ward]

Hobey Baker winner drafted by Avs but is yet unsigned.  He should be the next target of Benning.  PMD who is a bit older because of 4 years in college.  Signing him would bolster our defense prospects and not cost us anything.  That would put us in a better position to potentially trade a dman at the deadline. It doesn't sound like he is happy with Colorado and will become a free agent on August 16th

[JM_]

Could be....  he's on the smallish side and a LHD... but we could use all the PMD guys we can get back there. He'd have to be willing to be in Utica for a bit tho so if going to the minors is part of the problem he may not want to come here. It would be an interesting competition tho between him an Juolevi for a roster spot. 

[SabreFan1]

The only way that a team like Vancouver gets a young rookie FA like that is by promising NHL ice time.  JB and Willie hurt the Canuck's reputation in that regard with the whole Tryamkin debacle when he first made the team. 

[DeltaSwede]

Left handed version of Stecher, why not? 

 

Just now, SabreFan1 said:

The only way that a team like Vancouver gets a young rookie FA like that is by promising NHL ice time.  JB and Willie hurt the Canuck's reputation in that regard with the whole Tryamkin debacle when he first made the team. 

I don't think Tryamkin choosing to return to the KHL will effect future NCAA signings. Players should understand that they have to work to gain ice time. Not just demand it because they themselves feel like they deserve it. I think most hockey players realize that. 

[SabreFan1]

2 minutes ago, DeltaSwede said:

Left handed version of Stecher, why not? 

 

I don't think Tryamkin choosing to return to the KHL will effect future NCAA signings. Players should understand that they have to work to gain ice time. Not just demand it because they themselves feel like they deserve it. I think most hockey players realize that. 

That's not what I meant.  They tried to send him to the AHL in the beginning and when he said "no" they sat him for a number of games in the press box.

[Gaudette Celly]

3 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said:

The only way that a team like Vancouver gets a young rookie FA like that is by promising NHL ice time.  JB and Willie hurt the Canuck's reputation in that regard with the whole Tryamkin debacle when he first made the team. 

Stecher.  Holm.  Chatfield.

[SabreFan1]

1 minute ago, Hutton Wink said:

Stecher.  Holm.  Chatfield.

I realize that, but I've been worried about the way they looked to agents and FA's when they handled the Tryamkin thing the way that they did ever since it happened.

[ReggieBush]

I love Will Butcher as a player, and he is a really impressive kid, but I haven't heard any rumours on us being in on him

[crobar]

Did they not sit Tryamkin because he came to camp out of shape and refused to go to Utica, and they had him  get into better shape before joining line up. 

 

 

 

[Dixon Ward]

I have not seen him play, but he seems like the type of player we tried to draft in Rathbone.  But Rathbone is 4 years away from the sounds of it.  

 

He would add a big boost to our D prospect pool.  He must have liked the way Stecher was treated and see Vancouver as a place in flux that could use his specific set of skills.

 

I hope that JB makes a push for him.  It would be real coup and give us exactly what everybody is saying we need.  Getting that player without having to give up any assets would be fracking awesome.

 

Juolevi

Butcher

Tryamkin

Brisebois

Subban

[Rob_Zepp]

1 hour ago, SabreFan1 said:

The only way that a team like Vancouver gets a young rookie FA like that is by promising NHL ice time.  JB and Willie hurt the Canuck's reputation in that regard with the whole Tryamkin debacle when he first made the team. 

Like the former NCAA player Stecher debacle.    

 

If anything, few teams in NHL showed more commitment to allowing a player to make their D last year than Vancouver.   If a NCAA FA looks to Vancouver, it will be the Stecher model that will resonate - not a homesick Russian. 

[coastal.view]

2 hours ago, SabreFan1 said:

The only way that a team like Vancouver gets a young rookie FA like that is by promising NHL ice time.  JB and Willie hurt the Canuck's reputation in that regard with the whole Tryamkin debacle when he first made the team. 

disagree entirely

the canucks as an organization have a good reputation in its dealings with college/ncaa players

just look at our roster

 

management is clear that it does not gift spots to unproven young players

and i support that stance

[SabreFan1]

26 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Like the former NCAA player Stecher debacle.    

 

If anything, few teams in NHL showed more commitment to allowing a player to make their D last year than Vancouver.   If a NCAA FA looks to Vancouver, it will be the Stecher model that will resonate - not a homesick Russian. 

I hope you're right, but I still think the Canucks reputation took a bit of a hit when after promising Tryamkin complete NHL time, JB and Willie went back on their word and tried to move him to the AHL.

 

Young sought after FA's base their team choices on where they think they'll have the best shot to stay and play in the NHL.

 

You can bet your bottom dollar that Jimmy Vesey would never have gone to the Rangers last year had they not promised him that he was going to play out the season in the NHL.  When he hit a rough patch mid-season, they stuck with him and he came out of his slump.  Something that Tryamkin had to force Vancouver to do.

[SabreFan1]

Just now, coastal.view said:

disagree entirely

the canucks as an organization have a good reputation in its dealings with college/ncaa players

just look at our roster

 

management is clear that it does not gift spots to unproven young players

and i support that stance

I hope I'm worrying over nothing, but I've been concerned about the potential ding in reputation ever since JB and Willie attempted to go back on their word and force the issue with Tryamkin when they did.

[coastal.view]

7 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said:

I hope I'm worrying over nothing, but I've been concerned about the potential ding in reputation ever since JB and Willie attempted to go back on their word and force the issue with Tryamkin when they did.

so you want to just give tryamkin a free pass

it is ok for him to show up for training camp in non professional shape

and force the team to design a fitness program fro him

and augment it with a suggestion that he do a short conditioning stint in utica

and you conclude the team went back on its word?

 

welcome to reality ... tryamkin was out of shape and not serious

he owed the club a fitness level suitable to nhl play

any other pro who looks at the whole story will see tryamkin was properly treated (this is not playschool where everyone gets a ribbon for showing up)

and no one went back on their word

you were not in any meetings anyway so you are also speculating what words were exchanged

[SabreFan1]

Just now, coastal.view said:

so you want to just give tryamkin a free pass

it is ok for him to show up for training camp in non professional shape

and force the team to design a fitness program fro him

and augment it wish a suggestion that he do a short conditioning stint in utica

and you conclude the team went back on its word?

 

welcome to reality ... tryamkin was out of shape and not serious

he owed the club a fitness level suitable to nhl play

any other pro who looks at the whole story will see tryamkin was properly treated (this is not playschool where everyone gets a ribbon for showing up)

and no one went back on their word

you were not in any meetings anyway so you are also speculating what words were exchanged

Calm down sparky.  I'm not fanboying on Tryamkin.  I bad-mouthed him on CDC when he left because he couldn't handle being away from home like a man.

 

My point is that if I were a player agent I would look at the Tryamkin situation as a negative and make my player aware that the Canucks went back on their word to one of their players who left the KHL with a contractual promise of total NHL time.  Being a Canadian-based bottom feeding team is bad enough.  You don't want any more potential negative marks.

[PhillipBlunt]

5 hours ago, SabreFan1 said:

That's not what I meant.  They tried to send him to the AHL in the beginning and when he said "no" they sat him for a number of games in the press box.

Benning asked Tryamkin if he would consider going to the AHL. I don't think he played hardball, because Tryamkin ensured that clause was in place when he signed the contract. Benning isn't the type of GM to reneg.

 

Willie on the other hand, was lost in space most of last season, and his totally questionable and inconsistent deployment, and ridiculous statements were most likely the main reason Tryamkin left.

[SabreFan1]

Just now, PhillipBlunt said:

Benning asked Tryamkin if he would consider going to the AHL. I don't think he played hardball, because Tryamkin ensured that clause was in place when he signed the contract. Benning isn't the type of GM to reneg.

 

Willie on the other hand, was lost in space most of last season, and his totally questionable and inconsistent deployment, and ridiculous statements were most likely the main reason Tryamkin left.

The Canucks couldn't play hardball beyond sitting him in the press box for as many games as they did.  They held absolutely no cards beyond that one.  His contract had a out-clause in it that allowed him to return to the KHL if the team tried to demote him to the AHL.

 

I'm sure Tryamkin didn't like what happened but he left because he couldn't keep himself separated from his mother's teet for several months at a time.  I got over him the second after he left.  I just think that the way the whole situation was handled was very clunky and that it didn't make the Canucks look good.

[PhillipBlunt]

Just now, SabreFan1 said:

The Canucks couldn't play hardball beyond sitting him in the press box for as many games as they did.  They held absolutely no cards beyond that one.  His contract had a out-clause in it that allowed him to return to the KHL if the team tried to demote him to the AHL.

Totally. I don't think that Benning was 100% behind Desjardins decisions at all though. Everyone knew that he came to Vancouver in flabtastic shape, and needed some conditioning to get up to snuff for the NHL, or risk injury by playing in doughboy shape.

 

That's where the suggestion to play in the AHL came from. It wasn't a demand, as they had no cards to deal in that regard. Tryamkin worked with the trainers and got into shape. Benning realized that.

 

I don't think that Benning was complicit or supportive of Desjardins' deployment of Tryamkin after that point. As well, when WD made the irretrievably stupid suggestion that it was Tryamkin's fault that the Bruins beat Vancouver, it was a nail in his coffin as the head coach, but they needed to present a united front. Frankly, WD should have been canned before the end of the season, but he wasn't.

Just now, SabreFan1 said:

I'm sure Tryamkin didn't like what happened but he left because he couldn't keep himself separated from his mother's teet for several months at a time.  I got over him the second after he left.  I just think that the way the whole situation was handled was very clunky and that it didn't make the Canucks look good.

It was clunky, but the lion's share of the blame rests on the coach that Vancouver thankfully kicked to the curb.

[SabreFan1]

Just now, PhillipBlunt said:

Totally. I don't think that Benning was 100% behind Desjardins decisions at all though. Everyone knew that he came to Vancouver in flabtastic shape, and needed some conditioning to get up to snuff for the NHL, or risk injury by playing in doughboy shape.

 

That's where the suggestion to play in the AHL came from. It wasn't a demand, as they had no cards to deal in that regard. Tryamkin worked with the trainers and got into shape. Benning realized that.

 

I don't think that Benning was complicit or supportive of Desjardins' deployment of Tryamkin after that point. As well, when WD made the irretrievably stupid suggestion that it was Tryamkin's fault that the Bruins beat Vancouver, it was a nail in his coffin as the head coach, but they needed to present a united front. Frankly, WD should have been canned before the end of the season, but he wasn't.

It was clunky, but the lion's share of the blame rests on the coach that Vancouver thankfully kicked to the curb.

You're telling me things that I already know and agree with to varying degrees.

 

I'm just hyper aware of how craptastic teams need to look as shiny as they can in order to attract free agents who have their choice of who they go to.  I've been going through it with the Sabres for 6 years and the Bills for 17 and now the Canucks for a couple of years.  If the Canucks were still contenders, I wouldn't give it much of a second thought, but they are no longer contenders.