Jake Virtanen with good corsi

[DrJockitch]

It is hard to day much about his time in Utica last year because I think when he got sent down the focus was on getting him lean not necessarily all about what was going on on the ice.  He was likely spending a bit more energy on the bike and in the weight room and feeling a little calorie deprived when playing.  

 

Someone above said they think he will score 20+ this year and I think they are probably right but in Utica and that is appropriate.  Hopefully he has learned how to be a pro athlete now and can focus on being a pro hockey player.  The whole point of the development camps is so we don't hit these kind of bumps in the road in development, need to listen and learn.  I still don't know how he can work out at the Canuck's facilities all summer and still bungle the message on fitness as much as he did.  

 

Man I hope OJ and EP aren't going to make the same mistakes trying to satisfy the people that only look at the most basic numbers to decide someones value as a hockey player.  In today's NHL it is better to strong and light so you can accelerate and change direction quicker than big and heavy.  Big and heavy still has a lot of value for the 10 ft in front of the net but the other 190 ft it can be a hindrance.  Yes those 10ft have a high relative value but if you can't get there...

[kanucks25]

2 hours ago, Burnt Gravy said:

Observation: These numbers are encouraging for Jake Virtanen, yet when it comes to Sutter and Gudbranson they are meaningless and emphatically discredited.

Homers gonna home.

 

2 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Sutter was deployed mainly in a defensive role.  With players that played over 50 games he was 2nd in most Dzone starts amongst all players, only behind Gaunce. Sutter was also used on the PK more than any other forward.

 

IMO Sutter was utilized the way he should be last season. High Dzone starts, main PK guy, etc. it frees up Horvat to have more Ozone starts or at least near 50/50.

 

Subsequently Gaunce had the most dzone starts on average and had the 2nd best corsi for players that played over 50 games. Hopefully he can find his scoring touch, he could be a solid checking forward moving for us.

Out of the 24 centers in the league that were given between 37 and 41% D-zone starts (minimum 400 minutes TOI), Sutter was 21st in CF%RelTM and 20th in P/60.

 

Yes he was given more defensive deployment compared to the other centers on our team but compared to centers on other teams that received similar deployment, he was well below average.

 

The bigger problem is that he wasn't used as a 3rd line checking forward, but more like a 1st line center who was playing a ton of minutes in every situation. His power-play numbers were absolutely horrid, it's debatable whether or not he should be on a 2nd PP unit in the NHL let alone being stapled to the 1st unit like he was all season this year (not his fault, coaches' fault).

[Burnt Gravy]

2 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Needs to use his physical traits to his advantage.

 

He could become a more relentless forechecker than Hansen, he has all the tools.

 

I am hoping for a better more physical version of Hansen with a bit more of a scoring touch.

 

There's a lot to consider when it comes to corsi, particularly how the player was deployed and in what zones.

 

I won't comment on Gudbranson because he played 30 games which I don't believe are good facts to go by under the circumstances. IDK how Virtanen was utilized in the AHL.

 

Sutter was deployed mainly in a defensive role.  With players that played over 50 games he was 2nd in most Dzone starts amongst all players, only behind Gaunce. Sutter was also used on the PK more than any other forward.

 

IMO Sutter was utilized the way he should be last season. High Dzone starts, main PK guy, etc. it frees up Horvat to have more Ozone starts or at least near 50/50.

 

Subsequently Gaunce had the most dzone starts on average and had the 2nd best corsi for players that played over 50 games. Hopefully he can find his scoring touch, he could be a solid checking forward moving for us.

Even if Sutter's entire career is a analytic glitch. Anyone who actually watched him play can clearly see that he is absolutely horrible at creating any kind of offensive situation at all whatsoever.  

[oldnews]

5 hours ago, Burnt Gravy said:

Observation: These numbers are encouraging for Jake Virtanen, yet when it comes to Sutter and Gudbranson they are meaningless and emphatically discredited.

Just quote something, one-liner/strawman superstar.

What is discredited is taking any single metric out of context.

[Burnt Gravy]

1 hour ago, oldnews said:

Just quote something, one-liner/strawman superstar.

What is discredited is taking any single metric out of context.

It's just something I have noticed. No need to rip your shirt off. 

[Junkyard Dog]

7 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

Homers gonna home.

 

Out of the 24 centers in the league that were given between 37 and 41% D-zone starts (minimum 400 minutes TOI), Sutter was 21st in CF%RelTM and 20th in P/60.

 

Yes he was given more defensive deployment compared to the other centers on our team but compared to centers on other teams that received similar deployment, he was well below average.

 

The bigger problem is that he wasn't used as a 3rd line checking forward, but more like a 1st line center who was playing a ton of minutes in every situation. His power-play numbers were absolutely horrid, it's debatable whether or not he should be on a 2nd PP unit in the NHL let alone being stapled to the 1st unit like he was all season this year (not his fault, coaches' fault).

With that said I do feel that he should be in a checking role first and foremost. I agree that his PP time should be very limited, especially even more so down the line. Perhaps the signing of Gagner is a sign that he is to be taken off that first unit PP at least. With the amount of youth coming up Sutter's PP days are numbered you'd think.

 

I would like to see Sutter more toward 60% Dzone starts and playing with our young checking forwards like Gaunce instead of more offensive players or AHL guys again. Used as our main PKer like last year. Strictly a checking forward. If he put up 30-40 points as such i'd be happy but I wouldn't expect that if he were given less offensive opportunity.

 

He is our best faceoff guy and I would rather see his line get the puck out of our zone, after a draw, rather than try and generate offense when his line won't be as good at it as our other ones(Horvat/Sedins).

 

Play him to his strengths which is not anything offensive at all.

 

I feel we agree on a lot here.

 

6 hours ago, Burnt Gravy said:

Even if Sutter's entire career is a analytic glitch. Anyone who actually watched him play can clearly see that he is absolutely horrible at creating any kind of offensive situation at all whatsoever.  

 

Very inconsistent offensively yes. I want him as our #1 checking forward. Allows the offensive players to be used more offensively and gives Green more flexibility with Horvat since Bo can be used in all situation IMO although more offensive opportunity for him wouldn't be a bad thing as well.

[CanuckleHorse]

On July 11, 2017 at 11:26 PM, Hortankin said:

https://www.google.ca/amp/theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/jake-virtanen-put-up-good-possession-numbers-in-utica/amp

 

An article to show people Jake didn't have such a bad year after all...

 

 

Would love to see him take a page out of the great net presence Dino Ciccarelli's book he has the leg strength and balance to make it very hard on the opposition.

[RogersTowell]

22 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

<snip>

Very inconsistent offensively yes. I want him as our #1 checking forward. Allows the offensive players to be used more offensively and gives Green more flexibility with Horvat since Bo can be used in all situation IMO although more offensive opportunity for him wouldn't be a bad thing as well.

I agree completely.  He's the guy that can keep pace with a guy like McDavid and be physical enough to make his life unpleasant.  On a shut down line with Sutter I think would be a good eventual goal for the kid and an important puzzle piece for the Canucks.

[YummyCakeFace]

Graded on 15 randomly selected games which means it all amounts to bupkis. Skewed at best. 

[IBatch]

On 12/07/2017 at 3:14 AM, Kevin Biestra said:

Well, I'm happy to see anything that indicates he isn't the second coming of Alex Stojanov.

I sure hope he is....let's say Virtanen for Guentzal straight across?

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, YummyCakeFace said:

Graded on 15 randomly selected games which means it all amounts to bupkis. Skewed at best. 

You bet, better to cut the season in half and make two sample sizes to see if their is an improvement or if not, that it's still high. 60 percent is a very good stat.

[Hockey101 class]

On 7/12/2017 at 0:27 AM, MikeyD said:

My biggest worry is he doesn't play hockey very well (disclaimer: in comparison to his teammates on the same level).

you got a 20 year old kid thats played 65 NHL games and you dont think he plays hockey well your on crack how many 20 year old kids have played 65 NHL games. CDC a F#@&*(%g joke worried about Virtanen. Jakes a stud be happy we have him.

[erkayloomeh]

On 7/12/2017 at 11:09 AM, Alflives said:

Jake scores 20+ this season:)

Karen, Marcy, Heidi, Desiree, Kate, Sarah, Kim, Pauline, Lucy, Caroline, Leah, Mindy, Jennifer, Heather, Sandra, Stacey, Loretta, Joanne, Michelle, Carmen.....Gertrude? That's 20 plus 

[Rollieo Del Fuego]

....corsi did....

[Alflives]

50 minutes ago, erkayloomeh said:

Karen, Marcy, Heidi, Desiree, Kate, Sarah, Kim, Pauline, Lucy, Caroline, Leah, Mindy, Jennifer, Heather, Sandra, Stacey, Loretta, Joanne, Michelle, Carmen.....Gertrude? That's 20 plus 

Oh God.  That's too funny! 

 

[Toews]

54 minutes ago, erkayloomeh said:

Karen, Marcy, Heidi, Desiree, Kate, Sarah, Kim, Pauline, Lucy, Caroline, Leah, Mindy, Jennifer, Heather, Sandra, Stacey, Loretta, Joanne, Michelle, Carmen.....Gertrude? That's 20 plus 

Gertrude? Jake's only 20 man, its too early to go after GILFs.

[dpn1]

On 7/12/2017 at 9:37 AM, Zhukini said:

The only problem for Jake is that his corsi numbers get inflated by him taking needless shots from any angle and directing them on net, and the play dies because of it

 

While it's a good thing to have the puck on your stick to begin with, shooting from anywhere just for the sake of it isn't always the best thing

Did you watch any Utica games because I did and I didn't see him shooting "Needless shots from any angle..."  Travis Green has said that Jake was "snake bitten" this last season.  Jake's Pro Coach (Green) and Pro GM (Jimbo) both say the samethings about Jake and Green said in one of the videos when he was hired that Jake will challenge for a place on the Canucks.  I have to lean towards the pros and trust they know more than I.  Also, Green doesn't say things he doesn't mean so I trust what he says about Jake.

[Zhukini]

16 minutes ago, dpn1 said:

Did you watch any Utica games because I did and I didn't see him shooting "Needless shots from any angle..."  Travis Green has said that Jake was "snake bitten" this last season.  Jake's Pro Coach (Green) and Pro GM (Jimbo) both say the samethings about Jake and Green said in one of the videos when he was hired that Jake will challenge for a place on the Canucks.  I have to lean towards the pros and trust they know more than I.  Also, Green doesn't say things he doesn't mean so I trust what he says about Jake.

Yes and this extends beyond Utica it's been something he has been doing for a long time now 

[dpn1]

16 minutes ago, Zhukini said:

Yes and this extends beyond Utica it's been something he has been doing for a long time now 

I appreciate your opinion, but I watched every Utica game this last season (when you subscribe to AHL Live you can watch old games you missed) and I just didn't see what you saw.  Life is just funny like that sometimes I guess.  Sometimes I think we have developed a habit of ripping Jake we don't know how to stop.  It may be time for recover or detox.  I've heard it does wonders.  

[Toews]

37 minutes ago, dpn1 said:

Did you watch any Utica games because I did and I didn't see him shooting "Needless shots from any angle..."  Travis Green has said that Jake was "snake bitten" this last season.  Jake's Pro Coach (Green) and Pro GM (Jimbo) both say the samethings about Jake and Green said in one of the videos when he was hired that Jake will challenge for a place on the Canucks.  I have to lean towards the pros and trust they know more than I.  Also, Green doesn't say things he doesn't mean so I trust what he says about Jake.

Going to have to disagree with you here. His shot selection is something I have criticized him for.