Ryan Strome Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 1 minute ago, CBH1926 said: Yeah that is what I red, weapons business is tough, 5 countries dominate the market. I don't think Japan has the money for this project anyways. Top military industries IMO, USA, Russia, Israel, Germany, Swedes make some good stuff too. Ya those Swedish corvettes look awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBH1926 Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said: Ya those Swedish corvettes look awesome. Bofors 40mm is probably one of the most widely used weapons in the world. Their ATGM's are really good and as you posted, their navy produces some high quality vessels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted September 8, 2017 Author Share Posted September 8, 2017 Looks like they found one http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/avro-arrow-prototype-1.4280279 Search crews say they have found a test model of the Avro Arrow, an advanced Canadian fighter jet that was controversially scrapped in 1959, on the floor of Lake Ontario. Underwater vehicle probes depths of Lake Ontario for long-missing Avro Arrow models OEX Recovery Group, which is spearheading the Raise the Arrow expedition, says in a news release Thursday that new sonar imagery confirmed the discovery of an Avro Arrow free-flight model. The company is promising that photos and video footage of the discovery will be revealed publicly Friday in Toronto. The mission to find nine models of the Avro Arrow began in late July near Point Petre, Ont., with a submarine scouring the waters of Lake Ontario. Kraken's ThunderFish underwater vehicle was used to capture high quality images of the lake bed, which helped locate the sunken Avro Arrow model. (Twitter) Newfoundland's Kraken Sonar was involved in the effort to locate the sunken model aircraft, using its state-of-the-art ThunderFish underwater vehicle and AquaPix sonar system to capture high-quality images of the lake bed. Big day for Canadian aviation history The expedition also is meant to coincide with next year's 60th anniversary of Avro Arrow's first test flight. The models were first launched from a military base in the 1950s as part of the development of the Avro Arrow, the first and only supersonic interceptor built by the Canadian military to counter potential Soviet bomber attacks in North America's Arctic. All materials, including completed jets, were ordered to be destroyed when Ottawa abruptly cancelled the Avro Arrow project. The models discovered the by search team will find new homes at the Canada Aviation and Space Museum in Ottawa and the National Air Force Museum of Canada in Trenton, Ont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 1 hour ago, Warhippy said: Looks like they found one http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/avro-arrow-prototype-1.4280279 Search crews say they have found a test model of the Avro Arrow, an advanced Canadian fighter jet that was controversially scrapped in 1959, on the floor of Lake Ontario. Underwater vehicle probes depths of Lake Ontario for long-missing Avro Arrow models OEX Recovery Group, which is spearheading the Raise the Arrow expedition, says in a news release Thursday that new sonar imagery confirmed the discovery of an Avro Arrow free-flight model. The company is promising that photos and video footage of the discovery will be revealed publicly Friday in Toronto. The mission to find nine models of the Avro Arrow began in late July near Point Petre, Ont., with a submarine scouring the waters of Lake Ontario. Kraken's ThunderFish underwater vehicle was used to capture high quality images of the lake bed, which helped locate the sunken Avro Arrow model. (Twitter) Newfoundland's Kraken Sonar was involved in the effort to locate the sunken model aircraft, using its state-of-the-art ThunderFish underwater vehicle and AquaPix sonar system to capture high-quality images of the lake bed. Big day for Canadian aviation history The expedition also is meant to coincide with next year's 60th anniversary of Avro Arrow's first test flight. The models were first launched from a military base in the 1950s as part of the development of the Avro Arrow, the first and only supersonic interceptor built by the Canadian military to counter potential Soviet bomber attacks in North America's Arctic. All materials, including completed jets, were ordered to be destroyed when Ottawa abruptly cancelled the Avro Arrow project. The models discovered the by search team will find new homes at the Canada Aviation and Space Museum in Ottawa and the National Air Force Museum of Canada in Trenton, Ont. thats neat. I wish we were investing in making our own jets vs paying Boeing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Came here to post the same link. Thanks WH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted September 8, 2017 Author Share Posted September 8, 2017 6 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said: thats neat. I wish we were investing in making our own jets vs paying Boeing.... Well, one person with the experience and intelligence in both fields says it is MORE than viable http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/avro-arrow-considered-as-f-35-alternative-documents-show-1.1136267 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted September 8, 2017 Author Share Posted September 8, 2017 1 hour ago, elvis15 said: Came here to post the same link. Thanks WH. For both history, but also for potential future investments in aerospace engineering in canada this is essential. Had to post it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted September 8, 2017 Author Share Posted September 8, 2017 Nearly 60 years after the Avro Arrow was scrapped amid controversy, members of the public got a first look at images of one of the test models recently found in the depths of Lake Ontario. Members of the Raise the Arrow expedition unveiled still photographs and underwater video from a remote-operated vehicle on Friday morning in Toronto, confirming the discovery of the free-flight model. In addition, the team announced what comes as a surprise to many Arrow enthusiasts — "there are more jets out there than originally thought," said John Burzynski, the expedition leader. An image of one of the models found at the bottom of Lake Ontario by the Raise the Arrow expedition. The model is covered in zebra mussels, and there are plans to raise it from the water. (Raise the Arrow Expedition) He called the finding a "discovery within a discovery" since "this was a secret program that no one knew was going on when it was going on, unfortunately a lot of the records are partial." The additional models were described as very early iterations which were used as "test tracking vehicles." They may not have had all the characteristics of the Avro Arrow, as they were mainly used to test equipment, said Dr. Richard Mayne, a historian with the Royal Canadian Air Force. At this point, the team only knows that several were tested. A new hunt for Avro Arrow models in the depths of Lake Ontario: This time the search will be different The Avro Arrow was designed to intercept Russian jets over Canada's North, shoot them down and then return to base to reload another missile. It's believed that nine three-metre-long models of the plane were fired over Lake Ontario. (Avro Museum) Search hampered by weather Due to poor weather conditions, the team has only had a "solid two weeks" of search since the expedition was announced in July, said David Shea, vice-president of engineering at Kraken Sonar, the Newfoundland and Labrador company aiding with the search. That said, the lake bed — consisting largely of a rocky bottom — has helped in the search because "they didn't sink into the mud ... what fell in the lake basically sits on the bottom of the lake," said Burzynski. Before the end of the season, the team plans to send divers into the lake to do a reconnaissance dive, said Scarlett Janusas, the expedition archeologist. The models were found between "30 metres and about 60 metres deep," added Burzynski. John Burzynski, the mission's team leader, said the search has been a work in progress for the last year and a half, and his group has recently acquired all the necessary permits to conduct the search and possible recovery. (Makda Ghebreslassie/CBC) "We've been given permission to remove some of the zebra mussels, so we may be able to find out exactly which model it is we're looking at," said Janusas. She added the caveat was as the season progresses, conditions may get too rough to bring the model up to the surface. "But when we are ready, we will be doing some excavation around the model," said Janusas. That procedure would involve digging around the Avro model, which is upside down, and building a cradle for it, to assure it won't break on ascent. Popular jet scrapped in 1959 The Arrow, a sleek jet interceptor developed in Malton, Ont., in the 1950s, had the potential to propel Canada to the forefront in military aviation. The program was abruptly cancelled in 1959 by Prime Minister John Diefenbaker, resulting in 30,000 employees losing their jobs. As well, the planes were ordered to be destroyed. Ottawa orders all evidence of Arrow destroyed3:53 It's believed that nine three-metre-long, or one-eighth scale, models of the Arrow fitted with sensors were strapped onto rockets, and fired over the lake from Point Petre, near Prince Edward County more than 200 kilometres from Toronto. New search launched in July In July, what's believed to be the biggest search of its kind for the models was launched — with the help of equipment that assisted the successful Franklin Expedition in 2016. The mission is a collaborative effort by several private companies in assistance with the Canadian Coast Guard and the Royal Canadian Military Institute. The Avro Arrow was scrapped in 1959 after its development was controversially cancelled by Prime Minister John Diefenbaker. (Avro Museum) Kraken Sonar Systems, which was awarded a $500,000 contract to aid with the search, including deploying its state-of-the-art ThunderFish underwater vehicle and AquaPix sonar system to capture high-quality images of the lake bed. In July, the team announced the search grid would cover water ranging in depth from five metres closer to shore and 100 metres farther out in the lake. The mission was set to run the underwater sonar equipment for eight hours a day, after which the data was downloaded and analyzed by a team of scientists that also included archeologists. Newfoundland and Labrador's Kraken Sonar used its Thunderfish autonomous underwater vehicle in the search. (CBC) Their original goal was to search an area about half the size of Vancouver, or 64 square kilometres. A 1980 CBC report said that after the destruction of the existing Arrow planes — created based on the models now in Lake Ontario — pieces were sold to a Hamilton junk dealer, for 6.5 cents per pound. At 67,000 pounds, a scrapped Arrow would have cost $4,355. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 28 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Well, one person with the experience and intelligence in both fields says it is MORE than viable http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/avro-arrow-considered-as-f-35-alternative-documents-show-1.1136267 Fantino... of course that was the Harper lackey who killed it. It would be great though, lets build our own, no reason not to. At some point we're should be able to cut the cord from the US on these things, and I'd feel a lot better about job creation and R&D being put back into Canada vs other countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted September 8, 2017 Author Share Posted September 8, 2017 1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said: Fantino... of course that was the Harper lackey who killed it. It would be great though, lets build our own, no reason not to. At some point we're should be able to cut the cord from the US on these things, and I'd feel a lot better about job creation and R&D being put back into Canada vs other countries. Former General MacKenzie is very vocal about his support for the finding of and re-engineering and rebuilding of this plane and canada's aerospace industry for very good reason Read those cost estimates. Had they done this back in 2012 we could be expecting a canadian made and engineered Arrow fighter jet by 2021. Adding tens of thousands of highly paid jobs to the country's workforce as well as weening ourselves off of the dependency of American made weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 If you look real close... the guy in the long white lab coat is my grandpa. I never met him but mum says he worked on the Vulcan and the Arrow. She also say this photo is still classified, don't tell her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 2 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said: Fantino... of course that was the Harper lackey who killed it. It would be great though, lets build our own, no reason not to. At some point we're should be able to cut the cord from the US on these things, and I'd feel a lot better about job creation and R&D being put back into Canada vs other countries. I totally agree we should rebuild the arrow I have stated this numerous of times however the liberal lackeys seem to also agree with Fantino. Whats even worse is Canada has a delegation in Australia looking at buying 30 year old used jets. Remember when Trudope and his ridiculous government said the sole sourced super hornet was the best option to meet the so called capability gap? But wouldn't you know, Boeing picks a fight with Bombardier and suddenly the super hornet isn't what we need? Your boy doesn't want to break yet another campaign promise he made when he said Canada will NOT buy the f35. Why not hold a competition now? But back to the Avro as I said before I would take the words of a decorated general over any politician any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 2 hours ago, Warhippy said: Former General MacKenzie is very vocal about his support for the finding of and re-engineering and rebuilding of this plane and canada's aerospace industry for very good reason Read those cost estimates. Had they done this back in 2012 we could be expecting a canadian made and engineered Arrow fighter jet by 2021. Adding tens of thousands of highly paid jobs to the country's workforce as well as weening ourselves off of the dependency of American made weapons. it makes too much sense to happen in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBH1926 Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 20 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said: I totally agree we should rebuild the arrow I have stated this numerous of times however the liberal lackeys seem to also agree with Fantino. Whats even worse is Canada has a delegation in Australia looking at buying 30 year old used jets. Remember when Trudope and his ridiculous government said the sole sourced super hornet was the best option to meet the so called capability gap? But wouldn't you know, Boeing picks a fight with Bombardier and suddenly the super hornet isn't what we need? Your boy doesn't want to break yet another campaign promise he made when he said Canada will NOT buy the f35. Why not hold a competition now? But back to the Avro as I said before I would take the words of a decorated general over any politician any day. Funny that you mention that. I was reading that Aussies are getting F-35's and looking to dump some old Super Hornets. Back home they have been flying these old Mig 21's that have been updated many times. Every few months, one of these heaps of garbage crashes. They have no money, ever since the wars in the 1990's, so it's understandable that they can't afford new planes. I never thought that I would read about Canada looking into second hand planes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 12 minutes ago, CBH1926 said: Funny that you mention that. I was reading that Aussies are getting F-35's and looking to dump some old Super Hornets. Back home they have been flying these old Mig 21's that have been updated many times. Every few months, one of these heaps of garbage crashes. They have no money, ever since the wars in the 1990's, so it's understandable that they can't afford new planes. I never thought that I would read about Canada looking into second hand planes. eexactly. I mean if it was second hand f22s I could understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBH1926 Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 46 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said: eexactly. I mean if it was second hand f22s I could understand. This Australian article says that they might use hornets for spare parts. http://australianaviation.com.au/2017/09/canada-considering-raaf-classic-hornets/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 45 minutes ago, CBH1926 said: This Australian article says that they might use hornets for spare parts. http://australianaviation.com.au/2017/09/canada-considering-raaf-classic-hornets/ This government is ridiculous. Just buy the f35. Lockheed has now offered it to Canada for 85million a jet. The Super hornet is a great jet but will be useless in 10 to 20 years. Ask yourself this if Russia has a new stealth fighter what good is a super hornet protecting the arctic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBH1926 Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 14 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said: This government is ridiculous. Just buy the f35. Lockheed has now offered it to Canada for 85million a jet. The Super hornet is a great jet but will be useless in 10 to 20 years. Ask yourself this if Russia has a new stealth fighter what good is a super hornet protecting the arctic? To those that don't remember what happens when you buy used equipment here is a little reminder. https://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorials/2016/06/07/cheap-subs-are-no-bargain-editorial.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Shotgun Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 On 7/14/2017 at 4:09 PM, Mike Vanderhoek said: This is what makes up our national identity, as much as many disagree with it. Great our national identity is not to be proud of the western Europeans and their descendants that built this country over the last two centuries. Instead let's open the borders to those masses who wish to live here because it's a safe place but care little to learn our culture and language. Being Canadian is not a right but a honour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted September 9, 2017 Author Share Posted September 9, 2017 11 hours ago, Johnny Shotgun said: Great our national identity is not to be proud of the western Europeans and their descendants that built this country over the last two centuries. Instead let's open the borders to those masses who wish to live here because it's a safe place but care little to learn our culture and language. Being Canadian is not a right but a honour. Then treat it as such and stop playing the poor me card. Canada was built by the asian community as much as the European community. As for speaking the language crap calm down. I know Canadians who don't speak english as well as some immigrants. Now do me a favour, start talking about the topic or bounce the hell out of here. We've enough "we hate everyone who doesn't look talk or act a certain way" threads for you to be bringing that garbage argument here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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