Blömqvist Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Based off of recent trades involving defensemen.. Dougie Hamilton went to Calgary for a 1st and two 2nd round picks Travis Hamonic (and a 4th rounder) went to Calgary for a 1st and two 2nd round picks Erik Gudbranson went to Vancouver for McCann (former 1st rounder) and a 2nd round pick Griffin Reinhart went to Edmonton for a 1st and a 2nd round pick Tanev is on a similar level to Hamilton and Hamonic. Therefore, his value should be around a 1st and two 2nd rounders (with a little extra being send out as well). Therefore, with the Hamonic trade specifically in mind: TOR: Tanev + VAN 3rd VAN: Liljegren + TOR 2nd + SJS 2nd Toronto gets Tanev without sacrificing their 2018 1st round pick, Nylander, Marner, or even Kapanen. Vancouver gets fair market value for Tanev, adding in a bluechip PP QB RHD in Liljegren as well as two 2nd round picks in a deep draft. Vancouver has their defense set for the next decade and has 4 picks in the top 62 selections in the 2018 draft (one 1st rounder, three 2nd rounders). With all those picks, it's possible that Vancouver can move up in the 2018 draft to target a specific player they like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadcanucks Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 8 minutes ago, Blömqvist said: Based off of recent trades involving defensemen.. Dougie Hamilton went to Calgary for a 1st and two 2nd round picks Travis Hamonic (and a 4th rounder) went to Calgary for a 1st and two 2nd round picks Erik Gudbranson went to Vancouver for McCann (former 1st rounder) and a 2nd round pick Griffin Reinhart went to Edmonton for a 1st and a 2nd round pick Tanev is on a similar level to Hamilton and Hamonic. Therefore, his value should be around a 1st and two 2nd rounders (with a little extra being send out as well). Therefore, with the Hamonic trade specifically in mind: TOR: Tanev + VAN 3rd VAN: Liljegren + TOR 2nd + SJS 2nd Reveal hidden contents Toronto gets Tanev without sacrificing their 2018 1st round pick, Nylander, Marner, or even Kapanen. Vancouver gets fair market value for Tanev, adding in a bluechip PP QB RHD in Liljegren as well as two 2nd round picks in a deep draft. Vancouver has their defense set for the next decade and has 4 picks in the top 62 selections in the 2018 draft (one 1st rounder, three 2nd rounders). With all those picks, it's possible that Vancouver can move up in the 2018 draft to target a specific player they like. As much as I don't like the idea of trading a proven NHLer in Chris Tanev for an unproven, but promising d-man prospect in Liljegren and long shot second round picks, given the context of where the Canucks are in their rebuild, I'd do the deal as proposed by Blomqvist in a heart beat. I've grown to appreciate the player Tanev is and has become, but the facts bear out that he's too injury prone. Better to move him now while his value is high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 I don't think Tanev and Hamilton are at all comparable. Hamilton is younger, bigger, puts up significantly more points than Tanev, and has been very durable so far. I imagine most teams would happily give up way more to get their hand on Hamilton over Tanev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PunjabiCanucks Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Could prob get a 1st rd and a A level or B level prospect + late pick... Regardless its in our best interest to trade Edler and Tanev within a year or 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 As much as I wish, I think Liljegren is going to be the next big thing, high risk high reward pick but oh boy he might end up the next 50+ point producing defenceman, albeit with sloppy defence and not much physicality. Tanev is nowhere near as sexy a defenceman as Hamilton or even Hamonic. He doesn't bring offence or physicality, but is a fantastic shutdown D-man. I think at the moment, with him in his prime, he can fetch us a decent prospect + 2nd round pick, or a single first round pick from the 15th-30th overall spot. Is that worth it? On the flip-side, we keep Tanev to help stabilize our young defence as it grows. He's 27 now, will still be playing great hockey the next 2-3 years, and IMO due to the style he plays (takes a lot of hits to make plays, blocks a lot of shots, been injured before), I think he'll start to slow down quite quickly and won't be very effective as a 32-33 year old. That being said, the new Canucks will be wanting to contend in 3-5 years time. That overlaps slightly with Tanev's window, so I'd rather we keep him in our top-4 for now, and when we're contending, he'd make a fantastic veteran 3rd pairing cheap defenceman with experience. Most importantly, that calming influence will be integral for the young D-men and Demko. Keeping Tanev and Gudbranson as our quiet and loud veteran defencemen for the future is a smart thing to do. I would only trade Tanev if we have a shot at acquiring a future top-4 defenceman, like for example Liljegren. Philly and Anaheim are stacked with young D-men and a trade could work there as well, but if it's any less value coming back, we might as well hold on to him. I don't see many teams coughing up a good young PMD for Tanev anyway with the recent NHL trends so I think we're going to end up stuck with him which is fine by me. Alternatively (purely for fun).... TO TOR: Tanev + 5th round pick TO VAN: Kapanen + 2nd round pick TO FLA: Granlund or Baertschi + 3rd round pick TO VAN: Matheson or McCoshen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monteeun Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 1 hour ago, bigbadcanucks said: As much as I don't like the idea of trading a proven NHLer in Chris Tanev for an unproven, but promising d-man prospect in Liljegren and long shot second round picks, given the context of where the Canucks are in their rebuild, I'd do the deal as proposed by Blomqvist in a heart beat. I've grown to appreciate the player Tanev is and has become, but the facts bear out that he's too injury prone. Better to move him now while his value is high. Tanev is not the definition of injury prone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 3 hours ago, Blömqvist said: Based off of recent trades involving defensemen.. Dougie Hamilton went to Calgary for a 1st and two 2nd round picks Travis Hamonic (and a 4th rounder) went to Calgary for a 1st and two 2nd round picks Erik Gudbranson went to Vancouver for McCann (former 1st rounder) and a 2nd round pick Griffin Reinhart went to Edmonton for a 1st and a 2nd round pick Tanev is on a similar level to Hamilton and Hamonic. Therefore, his value should be around a 1st and two 2nd rounders (with a little extra being send out as well). Therefore, with the Hamonic trade specifically in mind: TOR: Tanev + VAN 3rd VAN: Liljegren + TOR 2nd + SJS 2nd Reveal hidden contents Toronto gets Tanev without sacrificing their 2018 1st round pick, Nylander, Marner, or even Kapanen. Vancouver gets fair market value for Tanev, adding in a bluechip PP QB RHD in Liljegren as well as two 2nd round picks in a deep draft. Vancouver has their defense set for the next decade and has 4 picks in the top 62 selections in the 2018 draft (one 1st rounder, three 2nd rounders). With all those picks, it's possible that Vancouver can move up in the 2018 draft to target a specific player they like. As Canucks fan I'd do that deal in a heartbeat and laugh all the way home. Were I TO's GM I'd laugh and hang up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Look Ma, another Tanev proposal...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 7 hours ago, qwijibo said: I don't think Tanev and Hamilton are at all comparable. Hamilton is younger, bigger, puts up significantly more points than Tanev, and has been very durable so far. I imagine most teams would happily give up way more to get their hand on Hamilton over Tanev You bet, they move was a complete turd on Boston's part. Trade away a young guy barely getting his feet wet but putting up forty point seasons already, with good size and mobility, for a lottery ticket that would if they completely lucked out get them the same player back in a few years? Stupidity at its highest level. Calgary fleeced Boston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 6 hours ago, Monteeun said: Tanev is not the definition of injury prone. No that is Salo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadcanucks Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 6 hours ago, Monteeun said: Tanev is not the definition of injury prone. The FACT that Tanev has played 300 out of 386 possible regular season/playoff games and has NEVER played more than 70 games in a season since 2012-2013 would suggest that he is injury prone. He may not be "Sami Salo injury prone", but he's certainly not durable enough to play out a full 82 games. Maybe he'll do it this coming season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, bigbadcanucks said: The FACT that Tanev has played 300 out of 386 possible regular season/playoff games and has NEVER played more than 70 games in a season since 2012-2013 would suggest that he is injury prone. He may not be "Sami Salo injury prone", but he's certainly not durable enough to play out a full 82 games. Maybe he'll do it this coming season. D-men take the most wear and tear between blocking shots, breaking up shots, hits, that's a great season if any D-men are uninjured. Example Last Year: PK Subban: 66 Games Josi: 72 Games Shea Webber: 78 Games Hedman: 79 Games Hjalmarsson: 73 Ekman-Larsson: 79 Seabrook: 79 Keith: 80 At 53 games able to play last year. You can't expect a guy with Tanev's frame just to be Gumby-like and bounce back hit after hit. That's the reason folks want to trade him, it also effects his trade value. That's why if Toronto coveted Tanev that much why didn't they offer Liljegren at the draft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadcanucks Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 24 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said: D-men take the most wear and tear between blocking shots, breaking up shots, hits, that's a great season if any D-men are uninjured. Example Last Year: PK Subban: 66 Games Josi: 72 Games Shea Webber: 78 Games Hedman: 79 Games Hjalmarsson: 73 Ekman-Larsson: 79 Seabrook: 79 Keith: 80 At 53 games able to play last year. You can't expect a guy with Tanev's frame just to be Gumby-like and bounce back hit after hit. That's the reason folks want to trade him, it also effects his trade value. That's why if Toronto coveted Tanev that much why didn't they offer Liljegren at the draft? I don't necessarily want to see Tanev traded (please refer to my post previous to the one your responded to). My reason/rationale for the possibility of trading Tanev is entirely within the context of where the Canucks are in their re-build process. He's coveted by a large number of teams for a lot of reasons (of which one is his defensive play, which includes shot blocking, taking heavy hits to make that first good pass out of the zone -- things that make him vulnerable to injuries) so it's conceivable that his value is at its peak right now. The thing that makes Tanev valued by the Canucks and other NHL teams is also what hurts him, insofar as his durability. Having said all that, I do believe that Tanev's game is limited offensively as his stats may indicate (though that's not due to lack of skill, but due to Tanev being defense-centric in the way he plays the game -- again, a strength that may have hurt his perceived value). Not meaning to be argumentative, your post seems to support my point about of limited durability of Tanev. Just want to point out that if you look at GP of the players listed, most have played 90%+ of their games since 2012-2013 season, while, Tanev comes in at about 78%. That, in my opinion, is a large difference. Anyways, as you can see, I'm sort of all over the place with my opinion of Tanev, which is because I like Tanev and am just as happy he remain a Canuck as I would be if he was used as a trading piece that returned a player like Liljegren and a couple of seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Ghostsof1915 said: D-men take the most wear and tear between blocking shots, breaking up shots, hits, that's a great season if any D-men are uninjured. Example Last Year: PK Subban: 66 Games Josi: 72 Games Shea Webber: 78 Games Hedman: 79 Games Hjalmarsson: 73 Ekman-Larsson: 79 Seabrook: 79 Keith: 80 At 53 games able to play last year. You can't expect a guy with Tanev's frame just to be Gumby-like and bounce back hit after hit. That's the reason folks want to trade him, it also effects his trade value. That's why if Toronto coveted Tanev that much why didn't they offer Liljegren at the draft? JB clearly doesn't want Liljegren. He didn't even interview the kid. Personally, like many fans, I would do the proposed trade - but JB wouldn't. TO would love to give us a long shot Dman and two seconds for a top defensive D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldoescobar Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 11 hours ago, Blömqvist said: Based off of recent trades involving defensemen.. Dougie Hamilton went to Calgary for a 1st and two 2nd round picks Travis Hamonic (and a 4th rounder) went to Calgary for a 1st and two 2nd round picks Erik Gudbranson went to Vancouver for McCann (former 1st rounder) and a 2nd round pick Griffin Reinhart went to Edmonton for a 1st and a 2nd round pick Tanev is on a similar level to Hamilton and Hamonic. Therefore, his value should be around a 1st and two 2nd rounders (with a little extra being send out as well). Therefore, with the Hamonic trade specifically in mind: TOR: Tanev + VAN 3rd VAN: Liljegren + TOR 2nd + SJS 2nd While their real value is probably close you would most likely have 9/10 teams taking Hamilton or Harmonic over Tanev if given the choice. They are sexier players that would put more fans in the seats and contribute a ton more offensively. While definitely not as strong defensively as Tanev they difference is way way way less than the offensive difference between the players. Tanev + 3rd would not get you Liljegren alone never mind the added 2nds. Could maybe peak their interest if you go for a Kapanen + late pick for Tanev which I think was mentioned above. As for Edler: if you can fleece some contender for a 2 round pick at the deadline you take it and run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckmen84 Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Ronaldoescobar said: Tanev + 3rd would not get you Liljegren alone never mind the added 2nds. Liljegren would not get you Tanev alone never mind a 3rd! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBoGo53 Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Leafs aren't trading Liljegren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Ward Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 A proven, top shutdown defenseman like Tanev is definitely worth an unproven 17th overall pick. I would do it for Liljgren and a 2nd, however. The proven guy is worth more. He would be a 1st pairing guy with Reilly. The 2nd compensates for the risk of an 18 year old. I think that he was underrated in this draft and with his right handed shot, will be a great pairing with Juolevi for years to come. Liljegren even played 5 games with Petersson and Dahlen this year at Timra I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB5 Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 If the Canucks are willing to trade Tanev and he works with them through his NTC, I could definitely see something of this nature appearing at the TDL. (Tan-man also has to stay healthy of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messier's_elbow Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 9 hours ago, GoBoGo53 said: Leafs aren't trading Liljegren. Who cares? Why are people obsessed with trading Tanev to the leafs? I guess it's somewhat entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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