[Discussion] Why Don't We Recreate 2011?

[48MPHSlapShot]

2 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

You mean other than playing against the defending Stanley Cup champion Blackhawks, the team that was at the beginning of their run of being the most successful NHL team in the cap era?  I guess other than that, no excuses.  

A team that, in 2011, just barely made it into the playoffs with 97 points and actually had to rely on another team losing just to squeak in.

[hlinkas wrister]

2 minutes ago, Riviera82 said:

There's elite teams like Chicago, Pittsburgh, Boston and LA for a brief period, Tampa to a lesser degree, and then there's elite regular season teams like the Canucks used to be, San Jose and Washington as well. 

 

Now did the Canucks "make it" to game 7 of the final, or did they collectively fritter away a 2-0 series lead as a Presidents Trophy winning favorite and get embarrassed in game 7 at home snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory? I vote for the latter. People can argue about the injuries and whatnot all they want but the Canucks almost did the same thing in the first round with a 3-0 lead, just winning that series by the very skin of their teeth. What was their excuse at that point? And what was their excuse for not making even one other deep run at any point while they were "elite"?

 

You say that a team which makes it to game 7 of the SCF is elite. How about the '06 Oilers? The Flyers in '10 made it to game 6, elite? Devils in '12? Sharks last year? Preds this year? I cant speak for anyone else but I dont envision any of those "elite" or semi-elite teams getting anywhere close again in the near future. Maybe the Oilers, 12 years after their last elite season.

 

Well said. There's a couple of teams who fall just short every year, that hardly makes them a blueprint for success. 2011 was the culmination of a perfect storm for the Canucks. They luckily had the right pieces (the twins) in place to succeed in a time where the NHL had drastically adjusted the way the game was called and played in an effort to win back fan support that had diminished in the lockout. Everything was getting called, and the Canucks power play was feasting. Everything that was, until Rome blew Horton up in the SCF and Jacobs and the old boys network got pissed that we were trying to have our cake and eat it too. Since then we've been trying to catch up to whatever the current trend seems to be in "NHL game management" but the reality is that you have to already have (in most cases by just blind luck) the right pieces in place to catch whatever the next trend will be.     

[Riviera82]

8 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

You mean other than playing against the defending Stanley Cup champion Blackhawks, the team that was at the beginning of their run of being the most successful NHL team in the cap era?  I guess other than that, no excuses.  

Yes, and the Canucks were the reigning Presidents Trophy winners. Being down 3-0 to us should've crushed the Hawks spirit. Instead of stepping on their throat we let them off the mat and barely eeked it out. The next year the Hawks lost in 6 to the Coyotes, we lost in 5 to the Kings, the Hawks took off after that and we dropped like a brick to where we are today.

[NexusRift]

IMHO, team 2011 wouldn't be good enough to beat todays SC Penguins. Matching them in skill perhaps, but tenacity and heart thoroughly lacking. Pens can pull it off even though injury riddled. 2011 'Nucks didn't have the same depth and relied on the talents of the guys we lost to injury in the 2011 SC.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

40 minutes ago, Riviera82 said:

Yes, and the Canucks were the reigning Presidents Trophy winners. Being down 3-0 to us should've crushed the Hawks spirit. Instead of stepping on their throat we let them off the mat and barely eeked it out. The next year the Hawks lost in 6 to the Coyotes, we lost in 5 to the Kings, the Hawks took off after that and we dropped like a brick to where we are today.

Hardly helped that Sedin received a "gift" in the form of an elbow to the head from Duncan Keith (who got off light in terms of a suspension).

[250Integra]

Why don't we trade back for Kesler, Burrows, Hamhuis, Luongo, Schneider, and sign Ehrhoff, Rome, Ballard, Lapierre, Raymond, Higgins, and Torres? We still have the Sedins, Edler, and Tanev, and we need to do is put a jersey on Malholtra. Our 4th line would be much better this time around too.

 

[Rob_Zepp]

2 hours ago, Riviera82 said:

There's elite teams like Chicago, Pittsburgh, Boston and LA for a brief period, Tampa to a lesser degree, and then there's elite regular season teams like the Canucks used to be, San Jose and Washington as well. 

 

Now did the Canucks "make it" to game 7 of the final, or did they collectively fritter away a 2-0 series lead as a Presidents Trophy winning favorite and get embarrassed in game 7 at home snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory? I vote for the latter. People can argue about the injuries and whatnot all they want but the Canucks almost did the same thing in the first round with a 3-0 lead, just winning that series by the very skin of their teeth. What was their excuse at that point? And what was their excuse for not making even one other deep run at any point while they were "elite"?

 

You say that a team which makes it to game 7 of the SCF is elite. How about the '06 Oilers? The Flyers in '10 made it to game 6, elite? Devils in '12? Sharks last year? Preds this year? I cant speak for anyone else but I dont envision any of those "elite" or semi-elite teams getting anywhere close again in the near future. Maybe the Oilers, 12 years after their last elite season.

 

I don't think they are excuses when  they are facts.   Give Nashville RJ for the finals and they likely beat the Pens.

 

I don't really care what you call a team in terms of labels - up to you.   I find artificial  quibbling over what you call a team or not very silly in general.   What I call a team isn't what you will, I'll leave it at that and knock yourself out if you want to think otherwise.

[CeeBee51]

I'd rather procreate like 2011.... I was younger and had a lot more energy then 

[alfstonker]

3 hours ago, Gudbransons_Elbow said:

Ok cool. All I remember is being extremely disappointed in both their performances during that run.  Raymond had 2G in 24 games in the playoffs and Higgins 4 in 25. They did not belong in the top 6 of a Stanley Cup contending team period. 

Several months into the 2010–11 season, he suffered a broken thumb and missed 10 games in December 2010.

Raymond scored 8points in 24 games in the 2010-11 playoffs having scored 39 points to help get them there and 53 points the season before. If that makes him a scrub then maybe you should choose another sport.

[xereau]

2011 was achieved by completely decimating the farm system. 

 

Gillis traded the proverbial farm.  We don't need to do that again.

 

[canuckmen84]

Why don't we recreate 1994 instead

 

[Hectic]

1 hour ago, kingofsurrey said:

PVR'ed the 2011 game 7 so i would have it forever.

 

Never been able to rewatch the game... too painful.

 

I am still trying to forget 2011 -  maybe in another 20 years the pain will subside......

Haha I did the same thing.. didn't watch it for years.. deleted it about a year ago

[spook007]

Funny how time heals all wounds...

 

2011 was the best hockey I've ever watched... but the team DID get plummeted and in the end couldn't do it.

Would love to see that exciting hockey again, but there was a reason for us trying to get bigger. 

 

How about we don't dwell on the past, and instead build a team with its own identity, one which suits the players we've got. I'm sure thats what JB is trying to do just now. Otherwise we just keep going round in circles chasing our own tail...

 

[riffraff]

I'd like to relive 1994

[Dr. Crossbar]

3 hours ago, Riviera82 said:

There's elite teams like Chicago, Pittsburgh, Boston and LA for a brief period, Tampa to a lesser degree, and then there's elite regular season teams like the Canucks used to be, San Jose and Washington as well. 

 

Now did the Canucks "make it" to game 7 of the final, or did they collectively fritter away a 2-0 series lead as a Presidents Trophy winning favorite and get embarrassed in game 7 at home snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory? I vote for the latter. People can argue about the injuries and whatnot all they want but the Canucks almost did the same thing in the first round with a 3-0 lead, just winning that series by the very skin of their teeth. What was their excuse at that point? And what was their excuse for not making even one other deep run at any point while they were "elite"?

 

You say that a team which makes it to game 7 of the SCF is elite. How about the '06 Oilers? The Flyers in '10 made it to game 6, elite? Devils in '12? Sharks last year? Preds this year? I cant speak for anyone else but I dont envision any of those "elite" or semi-elite teams getting anywhere close again in the near future. Maybe the Oilers, 12 years after their last elite season.

 

Good point! Rarely see this discussed or explored. Raises interesting questions of whether we were only ever elite enough for one strong run, or whether management mishandled what should have been another run in 2012. 

 

Have to be honest here ... It felt great during those Presidents Trophy years but it never truly felt like we were dominantly elite for multiple cup runs. In hindsight it was 2010, 2011, or 2012... that was our window. It always felt like we were working our asses off to be elite and stay elite. The 2011 run was a byproduct of that hard work. I often wonder if the players themselves believed they were elite. 

 

Even with the great regular seasons in our prime of the era, there was always an underlying sense of holding your breath, waiting for the other shoe to drop. 

 

 

[hlaevang]

19 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I agree that the 2011 weren't a perfect team AT THAT TIME and that era, because unfortunately the playoffs were dominated by physical play. The 2010-2013 era was really dominated by strong physical play. The cups the Bruins, Kings and Blackhawks all won during that time were fueled through great two-way top centers, hot goalies and very big gritty forwards. The Kings were relentless physically. The Bruins were obviously all goons. Even when the Blackhawks won their first cups, they had loads of beef in their lineup with Byfuglien, Bickell etc. playing major roles.

 

I think since then, the league has changed a lot. We saw it plenty last year. It's due to slight, subtle rule changes, the way the games are reffed and "controlled" and most importantly, the evolution of young players being more NHL-ready right out of junior. The league is becoming much faster and skill is dominating now for these reasons IMO. Whether that's fueled by the league management or what viewers wants is hard to say, but there's an undeniable trend towards skill and away from toughness. We saw that in the last two playoff years. Pittsburgh dominated just about every team and they barely have a tough guy in their lineup. Their skill really took over and their young speedy kids helped them win cups, not to mention two generational centers and a red-hot goalie. Meanwhile the gritty, slower teams really struggled to even make the playoffs.

 

I'm adamant that the 2011 Canucks would have won a couple of cups if they were playing today, purely because of the trend in the league. It's a shame we've always been a year or two off, but this is what it is now. Who knows what the trend will be in another 3-5 years time, but one can only assume it'll be towards skill and speed even moreso. Kids are bigger these days, faster, and break into the league with more skill than previously. 

 

With that in mind, I think if we really focus again on the powerplay, speed and puck moving defencemen who can get heavy shots through traffic, we'll have a new powerhouse on our hands. If we're going to beat better teams like the Leafs, Oilers, Flyers and Jets etc., it'll be through the opportunistic powerplay just the way the 2011 Canucks did it. You don't see big hits or retribution fights anymore. You see dominant powerplays bury teams. This is what we need the most work on in the future, and for me it all starts with decent offensive defencemen who can skate, shoot and pass well.

 

How do we get there? I'd make a trade if I were JB. Throw a 20-something year old winger to a team going to the playoffs for an A-grade defensive prospect. We need to make a Drouin-for-Sergachev like trade.

I don't always find myself agreeing with you but I have to give you credit. You hit the issue square in the head. Having a strong offensive defender with a big shot is one area we have not been able to address properly since Salo left the franchise. He had his health issues (much like Tanev does) but when he was one the ice he helped drive the play. I can only name one former Canuck who had as big of shot as him: Adrian Aucoin. This is why I was hoping we were going to land Liljegren early, or snag Callan Foote later in the draft. It wasn't meant to be this year, but I do hope they address this going forward, either through the draft or through trade. I would love to see us be dominant from the blueline outwards again. 

[lmm]

6 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Hardly helped that Sedin received a "gift" in the form of an elbow to the head from Duncan Keith (who got off light in terms of a suspension).

Lets not forget that the 11-12 window was open to other teams because Sid was injured with a concussion. Had that not been the case he might have just won his 5th cup this year.

[Ferlands_Head]

8 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

But we're actually not far from that, just read what the OP said.  All we need is ALL our prospects to match their potential and a few to exceed it and become Selke, Hart and Art Ross winners and our role players double their goal production.  Simple.  

 

Don't agree with anything you said.  They were great 5 on 5, they had the puck the whole time it's why they drew so many penalties.

 

If they were fragile mentally they wouldn't have made it past Chicago in game 7 overtime, or gone to game 7 finals after all those injuries.

 

Maybe the 4th line wasn't great, but it had Maholtra on it and he was enough to make it a good line to use defensively.  

Raymond - 25 goals 53 points, 58 corsi in 2010

Higgins - 18 goals 43 points, 53.6 corsi in 2012

If these guys are scrubs, what are Baertschi, Granlund, Eriksson & Sutter?

I said they weren't the best 5 on 5 team never said they were garbage. 

 

Malhotra only played 4th line for the SCF where he only had one eye and played with oreskovich and glass, that line was IMO ineffective. 

 

Baer and Granny are prospects that have already had better seasons than Raymond at a similar age. Eriksson is a former 30G 70pt 2 way winger. Sutter is an excellent match up centre with good speed defensive ability and shot. I would not take Ray or Higgy over any of the players you listed. 

 

 

[Ferlands_Head]

6 hours ago, alfstonker said:

Several months into the 2010–11 season, he suffered a broken thumb and missed 10 games in December 2010.

Raymond scored 8points in 24 games in the 2010-11 playoffs having scored 39 points to help get them there and 53 points the season before. If that makes him a scrub then maybe you should choose another sport.

8pts in 24 is pretty much Raffi Torres level scoring without the hitting . That's not very good especially when you get more minutes and play with better linemates. 

 

Imo you could have plugged anybody in with Kesler/Samuelsson that season and the season before Kesler/Demitra/Sundin and they would've put up decent numbers. 

 

Ok cool so anybody with a different opinion should choose a different sport? That's nice. 

[IBatch]

8 hours ago, NexusRift said:

IMHO, team 2011 wouldn't be good enough to beat todays SC Penguins. Matching them in skill perhaps, but tenacity and heart thoroughly lacking. Pens can pull it off even though injury riddled. 2011 'Nucks didn't have the same depth and relied on the talents of the guys we lost to injury in the 2011 SC.

This year's version of the Pens was scary.  Scary in how dominant they could have been if they had Letang and Murray from the start, no knock at all to Fleury he was excellent... Schultz also did an admirable job stepping in ( or up ) for Letang but aside from him their defense was middling at best.  Crosby is knocked out in the Washington series and they still beat the best team in the league in seven, Karlsson does his best Canada Cup Orr impression but it isn't enough, the " four Karlssons " play an epic game 2 holding the Pens shotless for two periods and still lose by three, and the hottest team in the NHL last season in that CLB are almost swept in the first round.

 

Scary that the Pens were not at all at their best but still beat two top teams and eventually beat the team that swept CHI...

Guentzal? Who the heck is he anyways?

 

Not.....fair.