[Discussion] Why Don't We Recreate 2011?

[Ferlands_Head]

4 hours ago, Baggins said:

Going on production Raymond was an average 2nd line forward. That alone qualifies him as a top 6 forward. Was he a star? No. But how many teams have a 3 star first liners and 3 star 2nd liners? Typically on a very good team there's one top line players that falls into the average to above average 1st line production category and one 2nd line player that falls into the average 2nd line production player category.

I do agree with you to an extent. He produced average top 6 numbers in the regular season in 2010 and 11. His playoff numbers on the other hand were around his career average which equals to about 37pts per 82 games. I'm not sure those numbers qualify as average top 6 numbers correct me if I'm wrong. 

[Riviera82]

9 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Lou imploded too much @ home in the series; but what is often lost is that Lou ALSO had two shutouts in that series.  This is an example of the "goal support" he had....in each of those shutouts, we scored just ONE goal in those games.  That's the margin of error he had to work with.

Tim Thomas was on top of his game that entire series, whereas Luongo was not. I think his up and down play over not just that series but the 3 against Chicago before it caused the team to play tentatively and therefore not take many chances, and of course not score many goals. From game to game the skaters didn't know which Luongo was going to show up, 'shutout Luongo' or 'blowout Luongo'. That would mindf*** any team in my opinion, especially one with questionable coaching and leadership.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, Riviera82 said:

Tim Thomas was on top of his game that entire series, whereas Luongo was not. I think his up and down play over not just that series but the 3 against Chicago before it caused the team to play tentatively and therefore not take many chances, and of course not score many goals. From game to game the skaters didn't know which Luongo was going to show up, 'shutout Luongo' or 'blowout Luongo'. That would mindf*** any team in my opinion, especially one with questionable coaching and leadership.

Thomas had a Chara (franchise D) in his prime in front of him.  Bruins coach also blew a 3-0 series lead the season before (it happens).

 

[EdgarM]

On ‎2017‎-‎07‎-‎22 at 4:42 AM, alfstonker said:

We are all trying to forget it - because the truth is we were the best team in the league by a country mile - we WERE tough, we WERE fast, we WERE skilled - and yet due largely (yet again) to injuries we were denied our destiny.

 

I don't think any fan can ever forget something like that - it would take a SC win and even then most of us would still think that win should have been our second.

 

 

 

 Yep we were tough alright!  and......Other then Hamhuis and Malhotra, most of the team played almost all of the games in the playoffs.

No excuses, we should have won but we were shutout twice and Luongo had a bad game. The "Elite" players needed to make saves and score goals, plain and simple.

 

Player	GP	G	A	Pts	+/−	PIM
Sedin, HenrikHenrik Sedin	25	3	19	22	−11	16
Sedin, DanielDaniel Sedin	25	9	11	20	−9	32
Kesler, RyanRyan Kesler	25	7	12	19	0	47
Burrows, AlexandreAlexandre Burrows	25	9	8	17	0	34
Ehrhoff, ChristianChristian Ehrhoff	23	2	10	12	−13	16
Edler, AlexanderAlexander Edler	25	2	9	11	−4	8
Bieksa, KevinKevin Bieksa	25	5	5	10	6	51
Hansen, JannikJannik Hansen	25	3	6	9	7	18
Higgins, ChrisChris Higgins	25	4	4	8	1	2
Raymond, MasonMason Raymond	24	2	6	8	−1	6
Torres, RaffiRaffi Torres	23	3	4	7	2	28
Hamhuis, DanDan Hamhuis	19	1	5	6	5	6
Lapierre, MaximMaxim Lapierre	25	3	2	5	2	66
Salo, SamiSami Salo	21	3	2	5	−4	2
Samuelsson, MikaelMikael Samuelsson	11	1	2	3	−4	8
Rome, AaronAaron Rome	14	1	0	1	3	37
Hodgson, CodyCody Hodgson	12	0	1	1	−4	2
Glass, TannerTanner Glass	20	0	0	0	−5	18
Oreskovich, VictorVictor Oreskovich	19	0	0	0	−6	12
Ballard, KeithKeith Ballard	10	0	0	0	−4	6
Alberts, AndrewAndrew Alberts	9	0	0	0	−8	6
Malhotra, MannyManny Malhotra	6	0	0	0	−1	0
Tambellini, JeffJeff Tambellini	6	0	0	0	−3	2
Tanev, ChristopherChristopher Tanev	5	0	0	0	0	0
Bolduc, AlexandreAlexandre Bolduc	3	0	0	0	0	0

[EdgarM]

On ‎2017‎-‎07‎-‎22 at 4:19 AM, alfstonker said:

Mason Raymond had the 4th best corsi percentage figures in seasons 2009-10 and 2010-11 Raymond was also 5th highest even strength goals and 4th in assists in season 2010-11, He also had the 6th highest points production in the playoffs amongst forwards.

 

In fact he had the best corsi amongst players playing 70 or more games in season 2010-11.

 

Yet in your delusional state of mind you think that does not qualify him to play in the top 6.

 

To say you could have plugged ANYBODY in with Kesler and Samuelsson (who incidentally Raymond's corsi was superior) just makes you look foolish.

Who is delusional? Check out his awesome stats below. His highest point total was 53 pts in 09-10 and then went downhill from there. Now if those numbers scream a top 6 player I beg to differ who is delusional. Raymond was fast but had hands of stone and didn't know what to do once he got to the net. He usually skated around the net and then eventually lost the puck.

 

Season	Team	League	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2003–04	Camrose Kodiaks	AJHL	57	27	35	62	32	—	—	—	—	—
2004–05	Camrose Kodiaks	AJHL	55	41	41	82	80	15	8	12	20	—
2005–06	University of Minnesota Duluth	WCHA	40	11	17	28	30	—	—	—	—	—
2006–07	University of Minnesota Duluth	WCHA	39	14	32	46	45	—	—	—	—	—
2006–07	Manitoba Moose	AHL	11	2	2	4	6	13	0	1	1	0
2007–08	Manitoba Moose	AHL	20	7	10	17	6	—	—	—	—	—
2007–08	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	49	9	12	21	2	—	—	—	—	—
2008–09	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	72	11	12	23	24	10	2	1	3	2
2009–10	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	82	25	28	53	48	12	3	1	4	6
2010–11	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	70	15	24	39	10	24	2	6	8	6
2011–12	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	50	10	10	20	18	5	0	1	1	0
2012–13	Örebro HK	Swe.1	2	0	1	1	2	—	—	—	—	—
2012–13	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	46	10	12	22	16	4	1	1	2	0
2013–14	Toronto Maple Leafs	NHL	82	19	26	45	22	—	—	—	—	—
2014–15	Calgary Flames	NHL	57	12	11	23	8	8	0	2	2	0
2015–16	Calgary Flames	NHL	29	4	1	5	8	—	—	—	—	—
2015–16	Stockton Heat	AHL	15	6	9	15	2	—	—	—	—	—
2016–17	Anaheim Ducks	NHL	4	0	0	0	0	—	—	—	—	—
NHL totals			542	115	136	251	156	63	8	12	20	14

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, EdgarM said:

Who is delusional? Check out his awesome stats below. His highest point total was 53 pts in 09-10 and then went downhill from there. Now if those numbers scream a top 6 player I beg to differ who is delusional. Raymond was fast but had hands of stone and didn't know what to do once he got to the net. He usually skated around the net and then eventually lost the puck.

I think the pretty nasty major back injury in 2011 might have at least something to do with that.  Still managed to put up 45 points one season for the Laffs a couple seasons after his career high season.  That's fairly blah but still 2nd liner point production.

 

Again, he'd be a top 6 forward on THIS Canuck team; but assuming the team turns into a playoff team a number of years down the road - I wouldn't want him in my top 6.

[EdgarM]

5 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

I think the pretty nasty major back injury in 2011 might have at least something to do with that.  Still managed to put up 45 points one season for the Laffs a couple seasons after his career high season.  That's fairly blah but still 2nd liner point production.

 

Again, he'd be a top 6 forward on THIS Canuck team; but assuming the team turns into a playoff team a number of years down the road - I wouldn't want him in my top 6.

I agree the back injury was nasty but once a player is cleared to play again there are no excuses. The Canucks gave him a couple of more years to pan out, mainly because of his speed, but he never figured out how to score once he made it to the net and so he was let go. He ranks up there as one the "nice guys" like Eddie Lack but unfortunately nothing more.

Yes not consistent enough to be a top 6 and so falls into the category of mediocrity and I wouldn't have him in my top 6 either.

[Me_]

Why don't we recreate 2011.

 

because it's 2017.

[riffraff]

4 hours ago, EdgarM said:

Who is delusional? Check out his awesome stats below. His highest point total was 53 pts in 09-10 and then went downhill from there. Now if those numbers scream a top 6 player I beg to differ who is delusional. Raymond was fast but had hands of stone and didn't know what to do once he got to the net. He usually skated to the half boards and then eventually lost the puck.

 

Season	Team	League	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2003–04	Camrose Kodiaks	AJHL	57	27	35	62	32	—	—	—	—	—
2004–05	Camrose Kodiaks	AJHL	55	41	41	82	80	15	8	12	20	—
2005–06	University of Minnesota Duluth	WCHA	40	11	17	28	30	—	—	—	—	—
2006–07	University of Minnesota Duluth	WCHA	39	14	32	46	45	—	—	—	—	—
2006–07	Manitoba Moose	AHL	11	2	2	4	6	13	0	1	1	0
2007–08	Manitoba Moose	AHL	20	7	10	17	6	—	—	—	—	—
2007–08	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	49	9	12	21	2	—	—	—	—	—
2008–09	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	72	11	12	23	24	10	2	1	3	2
2009–10	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	82	25	28	53	48	12	3	1	4	6
2010–11	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	70	15	24	39	10	24	2	6	8	6
2011–12	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	50	10	10	20	18	5	0	1	1	0
2012–13	Örebro HK	Swe.1	2	0	1	1	2	—	—	—	—	—
2012–13	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	46	10	12	22	16	4	1	1	2	0
2013–14	Toronto Maple Leafs	NHL	82	19	26	45	22	—	—	—	—	—
2014–15	Calgary Flames	NHL	57	12	11	23	8	8	0	2	2	0
2015–16	Calgary Flames	NHL	29	4	1	5	8	—	—	—	—	—
2015–16	Stockton Heat	AHL	15	6	9	15	2	—	—	—	—	—
2016–17	Anaheim Ducks	NHL	4	0	0	0	0	—	—	—	—	—
NHL totals			542	115	136	251	156	63	8	12	20	14

Ftfy.

[Riviera82]

On 7/22/2017 at 8:59 PM, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Thomas had a Chara (franchise D) in his prime in front of him.  Bruins coach also blew a 3-0 series lead the season before (it happens).

 

Chara wasn't on the ice all game-every game, and yet Thomas still managed at the times when he was on the bench.

 

Since you mentioned it, the 88 point Flyers were the ones who overcame that 3-0 series deficit on the road against the Bruins with an even more "prime Chara". Odd that the heavily favored Canucks couldn't nurse home a 2-0 lead at home after what the Flyers did the season previous.

[JaboVancouver]

I would love to see the Canucks combine the skill and special teams play from the 2011 team with some of the grit and hard-nosed play that made the 1994 team so successful. The one thing I like with what Benning is doing now, as opposed to 2011, is that the skilled players he is drafting or in the case of Dahlen traded for, are willing to go to the dirty areas to score. I agree with those who have said the Canucks relied a little too much on their power play in 2011 and when it went dry in the finals they really struggled. What that '94 team had was a 3rd and 4th lines that were hard to play against and some solid grit on all 4 lines. Bure and Linden were the stars, but players like Greg Adams, Martin Gelinas, Sergio Momesso and Tim Hunter were those gritty players that were made for the playoffs. I see that in drafting guys like Gadjovich, Lind, and the emergence of Gaudette as guys who can possibly play that style come playoff time. If Pettersson, Dahlen, Boeser, Horvat, and future high draft picks can supply the top end skill we may have a solid mix if these guys develop.

[cripplereh]

easier said then done and every team wants a team like that

[alfstonker]

19 hours ago, EdgarM said:

 

 Yep we were tough alright!  and......Other then Hamhuis and Malhotra, most of the team played almost all of the games in the playoffs.

No excuses, we should have won but we were shutout twice and Luongo had a bad game. The "Elite" players needed to make saves and score goals, plain and simple.

 

Player	GP	G	A	Pts	+/−	PIM
Sedin, HenrikHenrik Sedin	25	3	19	22	−11	16
Sedin, DanielDaniel Sedin	25	9	11	20	−9	32
Kesler, RyanRyan Kesler	25	7	12	19	0	47
Burrows, AlexandreAlexandre Burrows	25	9	8	17	0	34
Ehrhoff, ChristianChristian Ehrhoff	23	2	10	12	−13	16
Edler, AlexanderAlexander Edler	25	2	9	11	−4	8
Bieksa, KevinKevin Bieksa	25	5	5	10	6	51
Hansen, JannikJannik Hansen	25	3	6	9	7	18
Higgins, ChrisChris Higgins	25	4	4	8	1	2
Raymond, MasonMason Raymond	24	2	6	8	−1	6
Torres, RaffiRaffi Torres	23	3	4	7	2	28
Hamhuis, DanDan Hamhuis	19	1	5	6	5	6
Lapierre, MaximMaxim Lapierre	25	3	2	5	2	66
Salo, SamiSami Salo	21	3	2	5	−4	2
Samuelsson, MikaelMikael Samuelsson	11	1	2	3	−4	8
Rome, AaronAaron Rome	14	1	0	1	3	37
Hodgson, CodyCody Hodgson	12	0	1	1	−4	2
Glass, TannerTanner Glass	20	0	0	0	−5	18
Oreskovich, VictorVictor Oreskovich	19	0	0	0	−6	12
Ballard, KeithKeith Ballard	10	0	0	0	−4	6
Alberts, AndrewAndrew Alberts	9	0	0	0	−8	6
Malhotra, MannyManny Malhotra	6	0	0	0	−1	0
Tambellini, JeffJeff Tambellini	6	0	0	0	−3	2
Tanev, ChristopherChristopher Tanev	5	0	0	0	0	0
Bolduc, AlexandreAlexandre Bolduc	3	0	0	0	0	0

Why not find another team? If I say more to you I risk a ban.

[IBatch]

21 hours ago, EdgarM said:

Who is delusional? Check out his awesome stats below. His highest point total was 53 pts in 09-10 and then went downhill from there. Now if those numbers scream a top 6 player I beg to differ who is delusional. Raymond was fast but had hands of stone and didn't know what to do once he got to the net. He usually skated around the net and then eventually lost the puck.

 

Season	Team	League	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2003–04	Camrose Kodiaks	AJHL	57	27	35	62	32	—	—	—	—	—
2004–05	Camrose Kodiaks	AJHL	55	41	41	82	80	15	8	12	20	—
2005–06	University of Minnesota Duluth	WCHA	40	11	17	28	30	—	—	—	—	—
2006–07	University of Minnesota Duluth	WCHA	39	14	32	46	45	—	—	—	—	—
2006–07	Manitoba Moose	AHL	11	2	2	4	6	13	0	1	1	0
2007–08	Manitoba Moose	AHL	20	7	10	17	6	—	—	—	—	—
2007–08	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	49	9	12	21	2	—	—	—	—	—
2008–09	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	72	11	12	23	24	10	2	1	3	2
2009–10	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	82	25	28	53	48	12	3	1	4	6
2010–11	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	70	15	24	39	10	24	2	6	8	6
2011–12	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	50	10	10	20	18	5	0	1	1	0
2012–13	Örebro HK	Swe.1	2	0	1	1	2	—	—	—	—	—
2012–13	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	46	10	12	22	16	4	1	1	2	0
2013–14	Toronto Maple Leafs	NHL	82	19	26	45	22	—	—	—	—	—
2014–15	Calgary Flames	NHL	57	12	11	23	8	8	0	2	2	0
2015–16	Calgary Flames	NHL	29	4	1	5	8	—	—	—	—	—
2015–16	Stockton Heat	AHL	15	6	9	15	2	—	—	—	—	—
2016–17	Anaheim Ducks	NHL	4	0	0	0	0	—	—	—	—	—
NHL totals			542	115	136	251	156	63	8	12	20	14

That's what I remember Raymond for best too.  Could skate fast without the puck, when with the puck he slowed right down unless it was straight ahead unobstructed, but when he got the puck it was usually soon after on the other teams stick by some sort of blunder or another.  He frustrated given his speed too, it was tantalizing and you hoped for more...and then you'd see him skating all over the place out of position and wonder is he was playing concussed.  Eight points in 24 games hardly makes you think top six, that's third line production.  He did have a couple bumper years, but aside from that, meh. 

[EdgarM]

5 hours ago, alfstonker said:

Why not find another team? If I say more to you I risk a ban.

I thought that might stump you. Pictures and stats speaks a thousand words. You can corsi this and you can corsi that and you can try and ridicule me by calling me names but  I have watched a game or two since 1992 and realize what is good hockey and what is not. I have followed this team for about 25 years now so its probably too late to "find another team". 

[MikeyD]

We didn't win that year due to injuries. Half the team was injured by the end, lots of surgeries required the next year or in the off-season. 

[Rob_Zepp]

On 7/23/2017 at 8:47 AM, EdgarM said:

 

 Yep we were tough alright!  and......Other then Hamhuis and Malhotra, most of the team played almost all of the games in the playoffs.

Simple question - have you played high level hockey?    I only ask as you seemingly believe that if a player is in the line-up they are "healthy".   The likelihood is many players come end of a SC run are running with varying degrees of hurt and sometimes quite devastating injuries that leave a player at a very compromised ability to play an effective game.   It can be a war of attrition.  

 

I wasn't a Vancouver Canuck that season (or ever actually) so don't know how hurt  any individual was or was not but I do know that more of them had post playoff surgeries and similar than did their opponent.   It isn't an excuse  - it is simply but one potentially contributing fact.   

 

As far as "tough" - again, I come back to my same question.   Every player in the  NHL is "tough".   You don't get into the NHL unless you are tough.   You don't play any level of professional hockey unless you are "tough".   If you had done so (played that is), you would know this.

[EdgarM]

11 hours ago, JaboVancouver said:

I would love to see the Canucks combine the skill and special teams play from the 2011 team with some of the grit and hard-nosed play that made the 1994 team so successful. The one thing I like with what Benning is doing now, as opposed to 2011, is that the skilled players he is drafting or in the case of Dahlen traded for, are willing to go to the dirty areas to score. I agree with those who have said the Canucks relied a little too much on their power play in 2011 and when it went dry in the finals they really struggled. What that '94 team had was a 3rd and 4th lines that were hard to play against and some solid grit on all 4 lines. Bure and Linden were the stars, but players like Greg Adams, Martin Gelinas, Sergio Momesso and Tim Hunter were those gritty players that were made for the playoffs. I see that in drafting guys like Gadjovich, Lind, and the emergence of Gaudette as guys who can possibly play that style come playoff time. If Pettersson, Dahlen, Boeser, Horvat, and future high draft picks can supply the top end skill we may have a solid mix if these guys develop.

What I remember of that team was that the stars did what they had to and produced their own "grit" when they HAD to. Linden fought even though he was not a fighter "per se" and we all know what Bure did to Churla when he was all over him in the playoffs.

 

Bure explained his actions:

It’s not my style, but I had no choice. They’re trying to kill me. I’m lucky I didn’t get hurt.

Churla almost assuredly had a concussion, but didn’t miss a game. The hit would be a multi-game suspension by today’s standards.

The Canucks went on to win game 2 by a score of 3-0. Bure scored twice.

The elbow signaled to the rest of the league that Pavel Bure was not going to be an intimidated young Russian player. Though he looked small, he was incredibly strong and not afraid of anyone. The Canucks went on to win the series against Dallas in 5 games and moved on to face the Toronto Maple Leafs in the Western Conference final with Pavel Bure leading the way

 

That team fought for each other like they were going to war. Not sure the 2011 team did the same thing.

[EdgarM]

22 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Simple question - have you played high level hockey?    I only ask as you seemingly believe that if a player is in the line-up they are "healthy".   The likelihood is many players come end of a SC run are running with varying degrees of hurt and sometimes quite devastating injuries that leave a player at a very compromised ability to play an effective game.   It can be a war of attrition.  

 

I wasn't a Vancouver Canuck that season (or ever actually) so don't know how hurt  any individual was or was not but I do know that more of them had post playoff surgeries and similar than did their opponent.   It isn't an excuse  - it is simply but one potentially contributing fact.   

 

As far as "tough" - again, I come back to my same question.   Every player in the  NHL is "tough".   You don't get into the NHL unless you are tough.   You don't play any level of professional hockey unless you are "tough".   If you had done so (played that is), you would know this.

"You don't know this, but Trevor Linden had cracked ribs and torn rib cartilage for the last four games of the 1994 Stanley Cup Final," Cliff Ronning said. "You can't imagine what it's like to hear your captain, in a room down the hall, screaming at the top of his lungs as they injected the needle into his rib cage. Knowing him, he probably thought we couldn't hear. He would then walk into our dressing room like nothing had happened. That was inspirational."

Ronning was remembering Linden dropping his right shoulder into Brian Leetch, pushing the defenseman to the side and scoring on Mike Richter to make the score 2-1 Rangers in Game 7 of the Final. Linden couldn't will his team to victory that night, despite his two goals, in the deciding 3-2 loss.

"I broke my hand in that game," Ronning recalled. "But how do I say I can't play when there's a guy who has played four games with broken ribs and torn cartilage and he's dropping his shoulder into guys to make plays?

"There's a famous picture of Trevor and goalie Kirk McLean standing in exhaustion and it exemplifies what everyone on our team gave that day. It was a sad day because we lost, but it was a great day in the sense of what we had accomplished. We were not as talented a team, but how close we came! And, how close we became as friends, to this day."

Ronning said the famous picture of Linden and goalie Kirk McLean, standing together in Game 7 in total exhaustion, captures the moment. The Canucks had beaten the Calgary Flames in seven games, the last three in overtime, before five-game series victories over the Dallas Stars and Toronto Maple Leafs. Linden was Vancouver's second-leading scorer in the playoffs, behind his right winger Pavel Bure, with 12 goals and 13 assists. Down 3-1 in the Final, the Canucks rallied to win Games 5 and 6.
 

+ Click for larger photo

At one point in Game 6 in Vancouver, Linden crawled on the ice to get to his bench, he was in so much pain.

"Trevor and Kirk and the exhaustion in their faces exemplifies what everyone on our team gave that day," Ronning said.

 

 

 

Like I told Alfstonker,  A picture speaks a thousand words.

[Rob_Zepp]

10 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

"You don't know this, but Trevor Linden had cracked ribs and torn rib cartilage for the last four games of the 1994 Stanley Cup Final," Cliff Ronning said. "You can't imagine what it's like to hear your captain, in a room down the hall, screaming at the top of his lungs as they injected the needle into his rib cage. Knowing him, he probably thought we couldn't hear. He would then walk into our dressing room like nothing had happened. That was inspirational."

Ronning was remembering Linden dropping his right shoulder into Brian Leetch, pushing the defenseman to the side and scoring on Mike Richter to make the score 2-1 Rangers in Game 7 of the Final. Linden couldn't will his team to victory that night, despite his two goals, in the deciding 3-2 loss.

"I broke my hand in that game," Ronning recalled. "But how do I say I can't play when there's a guy who has played four games with broken ribs and torn cartilage and he's dropping his shoulder into guys to make plays?

"There's a famous picture of Trevor and goalie Kirk McLean standing in exhaustion and it exemplifies what everyone on our team gave that day. It was a sad day because we lost, but it was a great day in the sense of what we had accomplished. We were not as talented a team, but how close we came! And, how close we became as friends, to this day."

Ronning said the famous picture of Linden and goalie Kirk McLean, standing together in Game 7 in total exhaustion, captures the moment. The Canucks had beaten the Calgary Flames in seven games, the last three in overtime, before five-game series victories over the Dallas Stars and Toronto Maple Leafs. Linden was Vancouver's second-leading scorer in the playoffs, behind his right winger Pavel Bure, with 12 goals and 13 assists. Down 3-1 in the Final, the Canucks rallied to win Games 5 and 6.
 

+ Click for larger photo

At one point in Game 6 in Vancouver, Linden crawled on the ice to get to his bench, he was in so much pain.

"Trevor and Kirk and the exhaustion in their faces exemplifies what everyone on our team gave that day," Ronning said.

 

 

 

Like I told Alfstonker,  A picture speaks a thousand words.

You didn't answer the question so clearly that is an answer in itself.

 

Second, posting it in red makes it somehow more logical?    Yes Trevor was a warrior but perhaps that didn't bother him as much as other things bothering the 2011 team - each player and each injury is different.   You choose to think that somehow the 2011 team wasn't tough enough but don't offer anything up but a tribute to Trevor Linden, red text and some stats on games played.   Sorry, that isn't very compelling to your point of view.

 

Professional hockey players are tough but they are not robots.   Many play through immense pain but that doesn't mean it doesn't hamper their play.   Many Canucks in 2011 were not as good in the last series as they were in the first two or three and the likelihood injuries played a part is not only possible but highly probable.   It happens.   It cost Nashville this year as with their number one C, they are a better team by far - take Crosby off Pens for finals and see what the difference would have been.   RJ is not SC but they both played that role for their respective teams.

 

Not even sure what your point really is but if it is that injuries didn't play a role in the 2011 series, let alone any other SC final, then my opinion is you don't know a lot about the actual nature of what professional hockey players deal with.