canuckmen84 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 So hypothetically the trade goes down and guess what could happen... Horvat scores 75 points playing with Mcpoops and LD scores 50 points playing with Bearcheese. No thanks ! Horvat is a Canuck and LD is a coiler, lets keep it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12-16-FG Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 The idea of this trade is ok to a degree, but the writer do's have a point, first thing is RNH = 6 mil, Maroon ? $, Lucic 6 mil, and so on and so on, honestly i believe Dri and McD are married at the hip, Edm will have to shed RNH, and Lucic if they are to survive in a cap era team. But they won't move Dri. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeydownUnder Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 I find it absurd that people think that Chicago and Pittsburg have made a mistake with their contracts and that the Oilers should do something different. 6 out of the last 9 stanley cup winners have been those two teams! They can pay McDavid and Draisitle the money they deserve and win multiple cups. Heck Pittsburg had an absolutely terrible defense come playoff time this year and still manage to repeat. Oilers will keep McDavid and Drai. They have good chemistry together and if McDavid gets hurt during the season, Drai can take the 1st center position until he is back. I think Draisitle's numbers are a little inflated playing with McDavid. Considering what Horvat's accomplished with much weaker line mates and how greatly he's improved from when he was drafted, I'd rather not give up any further assets for what may not be that big of an improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 Random thought: for what it's worth, we are talking about the same GM who traded away Seguin. lol Anyone know what Chiarelli likes to drink? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 When does the Youngstars tourney start? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 8 hours ago, HockeydownUnder said: I find it absurd that people think that Chicago and Pittsburg have made a mistake with their contracts! They can pay McDavid and Draisitle the money they deserve and win multiple cups. If you are implying that LD is an equivalent to a Malkin or a Kane I am going to disagree with you. I don't think he is close to either of those players nor will ever be in that level of compare. Just my opinion. LD is a solid player who has had stat inflation and benefited from lots of PP time on a good PP. His 5x5 point production was not much different than Horvats and BH didn't have too many shifts with McDavid this year (zero I think). Not arguing BH and LD are same players but at this stage in their careers, I don't see them as having different values necessarily as comparing just on points given their two settings right now is not a level playing field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeydownUnder Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 6 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said: If you are implying that LD is an equivalent to a Malkin or a Kane I am going to disagree with you. I don't think he is close to either of those players nor will ever be in that level of compare. Just my opinion. LD is a solid player who has had stat inflation and benefited from lots of PP time on a good PP. His 5x5 point production was not much different than Horvats and BH didn't have too many shifts with McDavid this year (zero I think). Not arguing BH and LD are same players but at this stage in their careers, I don't see them as having different values necessarily as comparing just on points given their two settings right now is not a level playing field. I was commenting on people that compared the Oilers cap situation to Chicago's and Pittsburg's. People are saying that Drai has to be moved because the Oilers can't afford both and that just isn't the truth. I think Draisitle and Horvat have different values but it's because the stats are skewed from playing on vastly different teams. I wouldn't be interesting in offering up anything extra with Horvat for Drai. And yes you are correct I doubt Drai ever becomes the player Malkin is. I do think he is a 1c in the league though and he has good chemistry with McDavid. It just doesnt make any sense for the Oilers to move him unless the return was over the top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, HockeydownUnder said: I was commenting on people that compared the Oilers cap situation to Chicago's and Pittsburg's. People are saying that Drai has to be moved because the Oilers can't afford both and that just isn't the truth. I think Draisitle and Horvat have different values but it's because the stats are skewed from playing on vastly different teams. I wouldn't be interesting in offering up anything extra with Horvat for Drai. And yes you are correct I doubt Drai ever becomes the player Malkin is. I do think he is a 1c in the league though and he has good chemistry with McDavid. It just doesnt make any sense for the Oilers to move him unless the return was over the top Sounds good. I think the model that Pittsburgh and Chicago used will not be as easy moving forward simply as the CAP will not be going up as fast and there is salary compression happening in that the lower end is coming up more quickly than the upper end it seems as a lot of "average" players that were $2 million/year are now in the $4 million plus - with the Oilers, Lucic and RNH contracts make their life a challenge too. Another problem, albeit a nice one, is one Leafs will soon have as they will likely have to deal with up to six pretty significant second contracts all within one or two seasons given the number of emergent players all pretty much at same time - if Matthews is their McD, who gets the LD money...Marner? Nylander? Reilly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted July 27, 2017 Author Share Posted July 27, 2017 25 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said: Sounds good. I think the model that Pittsburgh and Chicago used will not be as easy moving forward simply as the CAP will not be going up as fast and there is salary compression happening in that the lower end is coming up more quickly than the upper end it seems as a lot of "average" players that were $2 million/year are now in the $4 million plus - with the Oilers, Lucic and RNH contracts make their life a challenge too. Another problem, albeit a nice one, is one Leafs will soon have as they will likely have to deal with up to six pretty significant second contracts all within one or two seasons given the number of emergent players all pretty much at same time - if Matthews is their McD, who gets the LD money...Marner? Nylander? Reilly? RZ, Agree with a lot of your insights regarding future cap crunch(ideal distribution). Also agree that the poorly trending overall economy(& resulting stagnant cap) will produce a lot of stressed GM's. One possible future trend is more emphasis on deeper D-cores(strong & complete top-6), as that element may provide more relative bang-for-buck(performance relative to AAV) going forward. More teams may opt to skimp on depth-fwds, with more ELC/PTO types on the bottom 2 lines. It's a reason I'd guess Chia might opt to deal Drai, IF he could land a combo like Bo & Tanev. He might lean towards such a future-trend, if he felt the Crosby/Malkin approach weren't sustainable in Edm's market. In general, I'd suggest in this cap-era, team composition seems to be a constantly evolving philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Nuxfanabroad said: RZ, Agree with a lot of your insights regarding future cap crunch(ideal distribution). Also agree that the poorly trending overall economy(& resulting stagnant cap) will produce a lot of stressed GM's. One possible future trend is more emphasis on deeper D-cores(strong & complete top-6), as that element may provide more relative bang-for-buck(performance relative to AAV) going forward. More teams may opt to skimp on depth-fwds, with more ELC/PTO types on the bottom 2 lines. It's a reason I'd guess Chia might opt to deal Drai, IF he could land a combo like Bo & Tanev. He might lean towards such a future-trend, if he felt the Crosby/Malkin approach weren't sustainable in Edm's market. In general, I'd suggest in this cap-era, team composition seems to be a constantly evolving philosophy. I think so too - nimble will be the buzzword and those teams stuck in "how someone else did it" will likely get left behind. I think you will see a premium on two types of players - RHD and franchise centers. The rest will be important but more interchangeable. Having strong goalies will be good but ability to pay a goalie as your franchise player will likely be a difficult thing to do and be competitive. Tough act - you want Vezina calibre netminding but at $4 to $6 million total a year if you can - the teams that can do that will be better off. All I know is it going to be very interesting to watch and there is far more potential for competitive teams to decline in a hurry and bottom of cycle teams to improve more quickly under a flatter CAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny in Vancouver Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 I like the sound of "Bo Horvat" more than "Leon Draisatil" or is that "Draisaitl" or "Drasaitil" so there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanisleryan Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 Horvat can't go to the Oilers because then Id have to become an Oilers fan and that ain't happening. Bo is the new brand of the Canucks, he is going nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
komodo0921 Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 On 7/26/2017 at 2:49 PM, Toews said: Both Crosby and Malkin took up just as high a % of the cap as McDavid and Draisatl likely will. The Oilers can and will keep both and try and build around those two down the middle. I am not sure why people keep overvaluing depth, you pay your stars whatever they are worth in order to keep them. Letting go of Draisatl so that you can sign the likes of Ladd/Eriksson/Lucic/Okposo for "depth" is foolish. Top talent is extremely hard to acquire in the NHL you can find depth in the draft like Pittsburgh and Tampa have done. I agree that top talent is difficult to acquire, due to the fact that the owning team will always want half your roster, prospects and draft picks. But there are rare cases where a steep price is worth the asset. I believe Draisaitl is one of those. The problem is, we're in the same division and we, simply, do not have the expendable assets it would take to get him. They want players for now and most of our power lay in prospects and draft picks. Not a good fit. At the end of the day, I'm happy continuing to build from within. Next year's draft is projected to be strong. I'd rather hunt for additional picks for 2018. Sure would be awesome to get him though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 4 hours ago, komodo0921 said: I agree that top talent is difficult to acquire, due to the fact that the owning team will always want half your roster, prospects and draft picks. But there are rare cases where a steep price is worth the asset. I believe Draisaitl is one of those. The problem is, we're in the same division and we, simply, do not have the expendable assets it would take to get him. They want players for now and most of our power lay in prospects and draft picks. Not a good fit. At the end of the day, I'm happy continuing to build from within. Next year's draft is projected to be strong. I'd rather hunt for additional picks for 2018. Sure would be awesome to get him though. And why the heck would we give the Oilers the perfect centre to play behind McDavid? I think the Oilers would take a serious look at Bo for Draisatl. In the Cap world, with McDavid making 12.5 the Oilers might want a cheaper option in the two hole. I love Bo though, do will offer them Tanev plus for Dr. Drai, and keep Bo the magnificent:) GO BO GO!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbox Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 McDavid - Horvat is literally the perfect 1-2 punch. No please, I'd rather not help Edmonton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted August 1, 2017 Author Share Posted August 1, 2017 3 hours ago, Xbox said: McDavid - Horvat is literally the perfect 1-2 punch. No please, I'd rather not help Edmonton. Yes, it's an excellent 1-2 punch. Seems certain that Bo will be a star, next decade, +. That said, I think Draisatl has potential to become a superstar. I haven't watched a tonne of their games..but that kid appears the real deal. Two yrs later(after trading a few vets/twins retiring), this could be a young, imposing fwd lineup(ignoring the next 2 draft-possibilities): Goldobin - Draisatl - Boeser Dahlen - Petterson - Virtanen Eriksson - Gaudette - Lind Gadjovich - Gaunce - Lockwood ^Likely come in at a reasonable price. Lots of ELC's still. Only 1 elder vet listed. Good size, speed, skill & character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbox Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 8 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said: Yes, it's an excellent 1-2 punch. Seems certain that Bo will be a star, next decade, +. That said, I think Draisatl has potential to become a superstar. I haven't watched a tonne of their games..but that kid appears the real deal. Two yrs later(after trading a few vets/twins retiring), this could be a young, imposing fwd lineup(ignoring the next 2 draft-possibilities): Goldobin - Draisatl - Boeser Dahlen - Petterson - Virtanen Eriksson - Gaudette - Lind Gadjovich - Gaunce - Lockwood ^Likely come in at a reasonable price. Lots of ELC's still. Only 1 elder vet listed. Good size, speed, skill & character. I mean it may work out for us, but I really don't like the idea of trading with Edmonton. I'd also love if our next captain is Canadian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Green Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 anyone else think horvat is better than draisaitl? petterson and horvat will be an intimitading 1/2c at about half the cost of mcdavid/ drai in a few years , and no albatross lucic contract to worry about either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 4 minutes ago, Kelly Green said: anyone else think horvat is better than draisaitl? petterson and horvat will be an intimitading 1/2c at about half the cost of mcdavid/ drai in a few years , and no albatross lucic contract to worry about either Apples and oranges. Better is a very subjective term. I'd wager that in a vacuum, most if not all GM's would take Draisatl over Horvat. But team needs and makeup play a huge part in what teams value in a player. I don't think you can discount the value of a player like Horvat. But st the end of the day dynamic players like Draisatl are much harder to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Green Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 20 minutes ago, qwijibo said: Apples and oranges. Better is a very subjective term. I'd wager that in a vacuum, most if not all GM's would take Draisatl over Horvat. But team needs and makeup play a huge part in what teams value in a player. I don't think you can discount the value of a player like Horvat. But st the end of the day dynamic players like Draisatl are much harder to find. very good points , more valuable might have been a better way to word it 1 for 1 might be a fair trade , but i wouldn't do it based on the fact bo is canadian and will be a great captain someday soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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