Bo for Leon(Proposal-Discussion)

[apollo]

If Jimbo wants to send an offer he first has to find out what Leon will sign for. 

 

It's tough to put a value on him if his cap hit is 10+ mill.

 

IMO Bo @ 5 mill > Leon @ 10 Mill

 

But if its Bo @ 6 vs Leon @ 8... then Leon >> BO 

 

Regarldess, the proposals are in the ball park and could be fair.

[Canucklehead73]

Not much chance I would gamble the farm on Draisaitl... Easy for me to say of course, but last year he got 50+ points and now 77 as edmonton loaded up and McDavid blossomed... Bo got 50+ on a sagging Vancouver team, what would he have gotten riding McDavid's coat tails? 

 

Draisaitl IS big and strong on the puck, but can he win draws in the NHL? Can he score on his own? 

 

I like building from center out... I know Draisaitl is listed as a C/RW... 

 

Interesting tidbit... in his first season he plays 37 games, gets 9 points -17 and now he is the second coming... What did we do to Virtanen? 

[qwijibo]

12 hours ago, Canucklehead73 said:

Not much chance I would gamble the farm on Draisaitl... Easy for me to say of course, but last year he got 50+ points and now 77 as edmonton loaded up and McDavid blossomed... Bo got 50+ on a sagging Vancouver team, what would he have gotten riding McDavid's coat tails? 

 

Draisaitl IS big and strong on the puck, but can he win draws in the NHL? Can he score on his own? 

 

I like building from center out... I know Draisaitl is listed as a C/RW... 

 

Interesting tidbit... in his first season he plays 37 games, gets 9 points -17 and now he is the second coming... What did we do to Virtanen? 

Interesting tidbits. Draisaitl's faceoff percentage last season was 48.97%. Slightly lower than Bo's 50.47% but still respectable for a 21 year old. 

 

He put up 16 points in 13 playoff games playing away from McDavid.  

 

You can try try to make comparisons to Bo or Virtanen if you like. But he's proven he's far more than just a player riding McDavid's coattails.  

[Canucklehead73]

38 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

Interesting tidbits. Draisaitl's faceoff percentage last season was 48.97%. Slightly lower than Bo's 50.47% but still respectable for a 21 year old. 

 

He put up 16 points in 13 playoff games playing away from McDavid.  

 

You can try try to make comparisons to Bo or Virtanen if you like. But he's proven he's far more than just a player riding McDavid's coattails.  

Sorry I wasn't trying to compare the players to be honest, just saying Bo got 50 playing for the canucks... maybe he is better than we think? or Draisaitl isn't so far better? My main point is its hard to tell when comparing players on teams that are bottom feeding on thier way out of relevance as opposed to team on their way up. 

 

Fair enough about his FO% I do not watch him play much... I'm pretty sure He played with McDavid in the playoffs tho. How much I didnt watch other than hilites.

 

But either way, teams have their focus on McDavid would you agree? Not like other teams are afraid of the Sedins cycle half board tactics anymore.

 

As for Virtanen, wasnt a comparison of the players, I just thought it was interesting how we treat our players as fans, Draisaitl gets 9 point in his first year and then 50 and then 77 and now we are willing to trade half our team for him... Virtanen? 13 points in his first year, he gets demoted, a number of our "scouts" (fans on cdc) just rag on him and call him a bust... as an organization and a fan base we have zero patience.

[qwijibo]

12 minutes ago, Canucklehead73 said:

Sorry I wasn't trying to compare the players to be honest, just saying Bo got 50 playing for the canucks... maybe he is better than we think? or Draisaitl isn't so far better? My main point is its hard to tell when comparing players on teams that are bottom feeding on thier way out of relevance as opposed to team on their way up. 

 

Fair enough about his FO% I do not watch him play much... I'm pretty sure He played with McDavid in the playoffs tho. How much I didnt watch other than hilites.

 

But either way, teams have their focus on McDavid would you agree? Not like other teams are afraid of the Sedins cycle half board tactics anymore.

 

As for Virtanen, wasnt a comparison of the players, I just thought it was interesting how we treat our players as fans, Draisaitl gets 9 point in his first year and then 50 and then 77 and now we are willing to trade half our team for him... Virtanen? 13 points in his first year, he gets demoted, a number of our "scouts" (fans on cdc) just rag on him and call him a bust... as an organization and a fan base we have zero patience.

Fair enough.  I think you're discounting the talent of Draisaitl. Not to take anything away from Bo. (Who I'm sure every team in the league would love to have). But given the choice I'd take Draisaitl over Bo every day of the week. That kind of high end offensive talent is incredibly rare these days. 

[Canucklehead73]

Yeah maybe... probably why I'm not a scout.

[qwijibo]

3 minutes ago, Canucklehead73 said:

Yeah maybe... probably why I'm not a scout.

Lol. Me either. 

[PuckYa]

On 8/1/2017 at 11:02 AM, Kelly Green said:

and no albatross lucic contract to worry about either

 According to CDC, Eriksson... 

[Phat Fingers]

On 2017-07-26 at 6:15 PM, Nuxfanabroad said:

It feels like heresy to even ponder the notion.. but we're all big kids here, so I think it's worthwhile to confront the question..What IF?!

 

What if Chia-pet were to call up JB with a Bo/Drai offer? A GM's responsibility to listen, right? After the PO's the guy just had, got to be one of the most valuable singular assets, league-wide(top-10 a certainty..considering player, age, contract-status).

 

Consider:

- after his PO-showing, Edm prob can't afford McD & Leon(long-term). So, it would fit really well for them, cap-wise

- Bo & McD were pretty chummy at the ASG. It's hard to imagine a more ideal 1-2 punch, for a team to assemble

- Drai would be an obvious #1 in Van, lessening the pressure on other C's arriving in the coming years

- Both currently unsigned RFA's

 

As Van fans, we'd have to drop the homer-goggles & accept a 1-for-1 in highly unlikely. So I'll give two example-proposals:

OPTION #1:

Van sends: Bo, Tanev & Granlund

 

EDM: Drai

Sekeras..likely to miss a large chunk of coming season, but signed 3 additional yrs (NMC, so could refuse)

Khaira (local kid with size, who'd represent a significant minority within the local Van population)

 

2nd OPTION: (if Sekeras refused)

Drai

Maroon

Mark Fayne, mediocre RH-D (1 last yr of 3.6 mill, & he'd likely be dropped)

 

**************************************************::                    **********************************************************************

 

3  Questions...

1- Would you accept either deal ?

2- Would you accept a different deal(pls submit)?

3- Would you not trade Bo, regardless of Leon-pkg(even straight-up, 1 for 1)?

 

Lastly..this is NOT A HARD-SELL! We're required to post with the PROPOSAL-tag. I'm interested in various fan-opinions. Trying to provide a thread where we can all chime in, on likely a controversial direction.

 

If anything, consider it curiosity on our fan's valuations of the above players.

Put a similar idea out there a while back and got a largely thumbs down. I would be good with this. Works for both teams. Hate to lose Bo, but I see Leon as on another level, Getzlaf like. 

[Calvin's Dog]

On 2017-08-02 at 11:24 AM, Canucklehead73 said:

Sorry I wasn't trying to compare the players to be honest, just saying Bo got 50 playing for the canucks... maybe he is better than we think? or Draisaitl isn't so far better? My main point is its hard to tell when comparing players on teams that are bottom feeding on thier way out of relevance as opposed to team on their way up. 

 

Fair enough about his FO% I do not watch him play much... I'm pretty sure He played with McDavid in the playoffs tho. How much I didnt watch other than hilites.

 

But either way, teams have their focus on McDavid would you agree? Not like other teams are afraid of the Sedins cycle half board tactics anymore.

 

As for Virtanen, wasnt a comparison of the players, I just thought it was interesting how we treat our players as fans, Draisaitl gets 9 point in his first year and then 50 and then 77 and now we are willing to trade half our team for him... Virtanen? 13 points in his first year, he gets demoted, a number of our "scouts" (fans on cdc) just rag on him and call him a bust... as an organization and a fan base we have zero patience.

I wonder if what people are getting at is if it is more difficult to determine the value of a player who plays behind a generational talent. Could Bo put up similar numbers playing behind McDavid?

 

I think the Nucks have seen this a bit in the Sutter Bonino trade. 

 

Sutter (I think) hasn't met expectations and Bonino (maybe in the eyes of some?) exceeded expectations playing behind Crosby and Malkin. 

 

The thing that everybody knows is that McDavid will always draw the hardest matchups AND always make the players on his line better for that same reason: he gets the heaviest attention.

 

I'm not saying that Draisaitl isn't the more dynamic player, I simply wonder if it is hard to determine by how much?

 

Besides I think GMPC signs him (almost) no matter what. Even if his cap hit is too heavy when McDavid's contract kicks in, PC can still trade him or do what Pit does and surround them with good, straight line skaters who are fast and have some upside. 

 

These kind of players (McDavid, Crosby etc) just make those simple players more effective.

[IBatch]

On 26/07/2017 at 5:49 PM, Toews said:

Both Crosby and Malkin took up just as high a % of the cap as McDavid and Draisatl likely will. The Oilers can and will keep both and try and build around those two down the middle. I am not sure why people keep overvaluing depth, you pay your stars whatever they are worth in order to keep them. Letting go of Draisatl so that you can sign the likes of Ladd/Eriksson/Lucic/Okposo for "depth" is foolish. Top talent is extremely hard to acquire in the NHL you can find depth in the draft like Pittsburgh and Tampa have done. 

Exactly right, Crosby's percentage was even higher at first than Mcdavids is now, and a year later Malkin signed basically the same deal.  In fact PIT managed even a higher hit, because there is no way Draisaitl is getting the same deal as Mcdavid...Toews Kane is another example of two players taking up a lot of cap...

[Nuxfanabroad]

7 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Exactly right, Crosby's percentage was even higher at first than Mcdavids is now, and a year later Malkin signed basically the same deal.  In fact PIT managed even a higher hit, because there is no way Draisaitl is getting the same deal as Mcdavid...Toews Kane is another example of two players taking up a lot of cap...

In this twisted joke-of-a-league, them favoured US darlings can hide aging bodies in the desert dunes, or send onerous cap-hits off to toil in the 3rd division of the Hungarian Leagues. Then they get a perpetual conveyor belt of freebie FA's from Russia or college stars, etc, to replenish.

 

Edm will have to overpay constantly, to try & fill in a roster. 22 mill for 2 dudes WILL hurt them. It WOULDN'T if they were south of the border.

 

This F***ing league doesn't want any Cdn franchise dominating. Maybe they'd accept a Cup in smelly Hogtown, simply for the cap-boost.

 

*************BRING the tinfoil comments & pics, you Bettman-apologist, c***suckers**************** bring it! :^)

[qwijibo]

2 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

In this twisted joke-of-a-league, them favoured US darlings can hide aging bodies in the desert dunes, or send onerous cap-hits off to toil in the 3rd division of the Hungarian Leagues. Then they get a perpetual conveyor belt of freebie FA's from Russia or college stars, etc, to replenish.

 

Edm will have to overpay constantly, to try & fill in a roster. 22 mill for 2 dudes WILL hurt them. It WOULDN'T if they were south of the border.

 

This F***ing league doesn't want any Cdn franchise dominating. Maybe they'd accept a Cup in smelly Hogtown, simply for the cap-boost.

 

*************BRING the tinfoil comments & pics, you Bettman-apologist, c***suckers**************** bring it! :^)

If your conspiracy theory of the league not wanting Canadian teams to do well had any merit McDavid would be in an American market right now.  

[Nuxfanabroad]

3 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

If your conspiracy theory of the league not wanting Canadian teams to do well had any merit McDavid would be in an American market right now.  

If you're one to believe the daily papers, or that dirty schiesters like Bettman don't like rigged decks, I'd politely request you avoid my posts with a mighty wide berth. I'll promise to return the courtesy.

[qwijibo]

3 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

If you're one to believe the daily papers, or that dirty schiesters like Bettman don't like rigged decks, I'd politely request you avoid my posts with a mighty wide berth. I'll promise to return the courtesy.

Who are you? Donald Trump? You want to make ridiculous statements and expect people not to call you on it? 

[Nuxfanabroad]

42 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

Who are you? Donald Trump? You want to make ridiculous statements and expect people not to call you on it? 

Heard enough outa U mate..don't give a cr*p who you are..avoid my posts.

[qwijibo]

3 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Heard enough outa U mate..don't give a cr*p who you are..avoid my posts.

Feel free to put me on ignore if you don't want to See my comments. I'm not going to have you dictate which posts I can respond to. 

[HockeydownUnder]

On 05/08/2017 at 10:21 AM, Nuxfanabroad said:

In this twisted joke-of-a-league, them favoured US darlings can hide aging bodies in the desert dunes, or send onerous cap-hits off to toil in the 3rd division of the Hungarian Leagues. Then they get a perpetual conveyor belt of freebie FA's from Russia or college stars, etc, to replenish.

 

Edm will have to overpay constantly, to try & fill in a roster. 22 mill for 2 dudes WILL hurt them. It WOULDN'T if they were south of the border.

 

This F***ing league doesn't want any Cdn franchise dominating. Maybe they'd accept a Cup in smelly Hogtown, simply for the cap-boost.

 

*************BRING the tinfoil comments & pics, you Bettman-apologist, c***suckers**************** bring it! :^)

McDavid went to Edmonton. Matthews went to Toronto despite Matthews growing up in Arizona and cheering for them. Arizona finished near the bottom of the league that year. Imagine the much needed boost Arizona would have had if Bettman had rigged the deck and given the Austin. 

 

How about the New Jersey Devils penalized draft picks for the Kovalchuk contract. Vancouver never received any penalty for Luongo's aside from the recapture penalty all those players got.

 

Bettman has nothing to do with the high tax rates in Canada whatsoever. Nor does he have anything to do with the low tax rates some states get to enjoy. 

 

I hate Bettman, consider him the main culprit in the lost years due to cba negotiations. I can't believe I have to stick up for the guy. You are getting a negative from me tomorrow for this and your c***suckers comment

[Nuxfanabroad]

7 minutes ago, HockeydownUnder said:

 

 

How about the New Jersey Devils penalized draft picks for the Kovalchuk contract. Vancouver never received any penalty for Luongo's aside from the recapture penalty all those players got.

 

 

 

I hate Bettman, consider him the main culprit in the lost years due to cba negotiations. I can't believe I have to stick up for the guy. You are getting a negative from me tomorrow for this and your c***suckers comment

The Kovy-fiasco has included more chapters than a Tolstoy novel. Cherry-pick whatever serves your angle.

 

Come up with as many examples as you like. After witnessing their 2011 officiating; numerous DPS joke f***ing rulings; & even an incessant unbalanced slagging, courtesy of mostly eastern media, I strongly question this league's integrity. It doesn't matter..I frankly don't care about your opinion vs mine..utterly irrelevant.

 

Been around long enough to understand when a deck is rigged. Have always loved hockey, since watching/playing back in the 70's. IMHO, a damn shame what this league became..could've been a HELLUVA' lot better, properly run. That's simply one person's opinion, irrespective & independent of other fan's views.

 

& do U know where you can put your neg, mate? I don't give a hoot. Go frown in a freekin' mirror, as two negs are a positive.

[HockeydownUnder]

1 hour ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

The Kovy-fiasco has included more chapters than a Tolstoy novel. Cherry-pick whatever serves your angle.

 

Come up with as many examples as you like. After witnessing their 2011 officiating; numerous DPS joke f***ing rulings; & even an incessant unbalanced slagging, courtesy of mostly eastern media, I strongly question this league's integrity. It doesn't matter..I frankly don't care about your opinion vs mine..utterly irrelevant.

 

Been around long enough to understand when a deck is rigged. Have always loved hockey, since watching/playing back in the 70's. IMHO, a damn shame what this league became..could've been a HELLUVA' lot better, properly run. That's simply one person's opinion, irrespective & independent of other fan's views.

 

& do U know where you can put your neg, mate? I don't give a hoot. Go frown in a freekin' mirror, as two negs are a positive.

So now it's the eastern media. Jeez between the eastern media and the nhl commission from the south, looks like they might have us outnumbered!

 

You're free to do as you please. I question the integrity of the game all the time. You only have to look at the Colin Campbell/Marc Savard fiasco to know that corruption is in the NHL, much like any league of any sport

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/Have-Savard-emails-exposed-NHL-s-Colin-Campbell-?urn=nhl-285531

 

Did the predators have the first goal of game 7 called off because the nhl had it against them? No! It's because sometimes refs mess up. The idea that the refs are being told by Bettman to rig games is laughable

 

The 2 best young players in the nhl both went to Canadian teams. Winnipeg also drafted Laine

 

As for circumventing the cap by offloading bad contracts, how about the Nathan Horton for David Clarkson deal? Horton gave the Leafs a lot of cap space that they didn't have because of Clarkson

 

Tax rates hurt Canadian teams. The cold weather hurts Canadian teams. Heck, the amount of travel the Canucks have to do is a big turn off for a lot of players, especially older ones that have families. 

 

Bettman is not the reason that Canadian teams have done poorly the last 10 years.