Hairy Kneel Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 When we had little or no prospect depth there was a lean towards giving them kids a roster spot. Now that we have depth on D and multiple forwards to sort through leaving kids down to develp more seems the better option. Besides we're not a playoff team per se. We are still transitioning away from depending on the twins so much. I trust Coach Green to help JB orchestrate the right moves in this regard. One thing that still irks me is that 1st rounders (high potential blue chip prospects) can't go to Utica when they are obviously ready to learn against men in a pro setting. The CHL should let those players move up if they're ready for that jump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Salmonberries said: Good point. Virtanen for instance now has only one more year to develop his game in the AHL before waivers kick in on him and he's still just 20 years old. The draft age is too young but tea,ms have to work with the system as it is and exercise enough patience with their prospects. Happily, Benning seems to be doing exactly that now. Too much pressure at that point in time? Knowing we, badly, needed to integrate youth? 3 hours ago, Raymond Luxury Yacht said: It think it's a different mindset now, it is for me for sure. As the core started to get stale it was all about the new blood. I look back at how badly I wanted to see the kids in the lineup versus now, with a younger team, I hope we don't rush anyone (except Bo) into bigger minutes. Perhaps I'm a hindsight superstar, I've never claimed to be a all that knowledgeable, only passionate. The team was stale, now it's not, it stands to reason those ready for the rebuild are panicking less. I doubt anyone will burn the city down for that, apparently that's only done when we lose in the finals....which saddens me greatly. 4 There has been times in the past when we were equally starved for younger blood? I remember the euphoria when Dixon Ward and Peter Schaefer (whatever happened to him?) broke in. Peter Schaefer was almost paraded down Granville street when he scored 30 odd points as a rookie. Too few have broken in with us, between then & now. I understand why some got excited with Jake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salmonberries Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 5 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said: Too much pressure at that point in time? Knowing we, badly, needed to integrate youth? There has been times in the past when we were equally starved for younger blood? I remember the euphoria when Dixon Ward and Peter Schaefer (whatever happened to him?) broke in. Peter Schaefer was almost paraded down Granville street when he scored 30 odd points as a rookie. Too few have broken in with us, between then & now. I understand why some got excited with Jake. They have to be ready to actually play though right. You're just cannibalizing the young if they aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Just now, Salmonberries said: They have to be ready to actually play though right. You're just cannibalizing the young if they aren't. Absolutely. Pressure, a sense of urgency in this quest for youth, has led to mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salmonberries Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Just now, Canuck Surfer said: Absolutely. Pressure, a sense of urgency in this quest for youth, has led to mistakes. Getting skunked at five straight drafts under Gillis' regime hasn't helped much either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 yup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainhorvat Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 If management wants to play it smart here then they should let Joulevi go to Finland with Sami Salo as his mentor. They can easily do this because Boeser will be the rookie this year that fans are going to pay to come watch this coming season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyg43 Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 12 hours ago, lmm said: I recall it a bit differently. Yes there was a call to play the youth, but that was the year after Utica went to the finals. I thought (some of ) the calls for youth came from fans wanting to see Jensen, Grenier, Freisen, Gaunce, Corrado, Markstrom and Lain. One poster I recall was very high on Sanguetti. But our boy Jim mis-read the situation and pushed our 2 youngest prospects into the NHL with some drivel about the CHL not having anything to offer them. That was and still is repeated often my those who bought that line of reasoning. Remember the talk that we needed to keep them close to keep an eye on them? Then Beibs and Jake make the Canuck home page. Shortly thereafter a certain Daniel is complaining because the young aren't being serious enough. There were some mixed messages there. There was a call from the Holy Unwashed to send Jake 'n Jarod back to Jr after the WJC, But Jim came out with his Managed Minutes / Scheduled days off regime. Do you remember any of that? Thanks for refresher in JB 101 moves++ post I have a great deal of trepidation thinking about Jim managing the the unready JR players . my take is still he has a lot of aspects of pro life he needs to grab, re: being professional.( his play indicates he may be ready but his body may need some extra seasoning.He at most should be able to get in his nine games an exhibition season .Then sent back to Jr or loaned out to Finland what ever works best at end of the day . I have no desire to see him rushed in this year . Perhaps if this was 2014 an he was drafted there it may have been a different scenario? physics should kick in here An be the rule , however JB is probably deserving the law of averages with his management team. JB will be deserving of what ever results he gets , if he pushes the envelope to bursting he may not last long in league as a GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 I agree that IF OJ is marginal to make the team then playing in Europe is a better idea than in the AHL. In the AHL there are far more 3rd/4th line types that are large and more willing to finish their checks, the travel and schedule can be intense as well. Out of curiosity how many NHL players in the league have played more than 2/3 years in the AHL? Is there some reference to the numbers? It is easy to figure out the top 2 line players, almost none and there should be a quite a few dmen, but on average how many? 4 per team not counting goalies over 2/3 years in the AHL? Rushing player into the NHL is different than in times past mostly because of the instigator penalty. Gretz was a boy, 150 lbs soaking wet when he finished 2nd (tied) in the league in points, Yzerman ditto, lots/most of the very young and small star players got to have a "guardian" on their line to help them flourish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 8 hours ago, captainhorvat said: If management wants to play it smart here then they should let Joulevi go to Finland with Sami Salo as his mentor. They can easily do this because Boeser will be the rookie this year that fans are going to pay to come watch this coming season. Fans coming to watch Boeser? I am sure there will be some but Boeser is not a flashy player or skater. IF he can score he may, to us old folk, resemble Bossy a bit, a little bit. Bossy wasn't a dynamic skater, playmaker or stick handler but he could find a hole and the puck left his stick with accuracy and power no matter how he shot, of course the goalie equipment was for protection back then not to stop the puck, I still get a kick out of the piece of equipment called a "cheater" because it wasn't for protection, it was "cheating". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIC_CITY Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 17 hours ago, stawns said: OJ has slipped? What leads you to that conclusion? I don't have the link but some outlet did a re-draft and OJ had slipped. Furthermore, guys like Chychyrun and Sergachev had moved up because they had already played NHL games and there was a poster on CDC that was supporting these claims. My argument was that it was far too soon to be making any assumptions and the fact that those players already played in the NHL had no bearing on how OJ would stack up against them in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 On 2017-08-04 at 0:19 PM, VIC_CITY said: I don't have the link but some outlet did a re-draft and OJ had slipped. Furthermore, guys like Chychyrun and Sergachev had moved up because they had already played NHL games and there was a poster on CDC that was supporting these claims. My argument was that it was far too soon to be making any assumptions and the fact that those players already played in the NHL had no bearing on how OJ would stack up against them in the future. That's what makes assessing a redraft a year or two later meaningless. Who cares at this point. It's 5 to 7 years down the road you actually know what you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 Let's be patient........the chicken littles are already out for Pettersson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaboVancouver Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 If there is one person in this organization who understands what can happen when you rush a player into the NHL before he is ready it's Jim Benning. The expectations were extremely high after scoring 28 goals and 111 assists in his last year in Portland playing D. Benning was drafted 6th overall by the Leafs in 1981 and went straight to the NHL. He has said that he wasn't ready, his confidence was never the same and he never lived up to expectations. Conversely Trevor Linden was ready physically and mentally to jump right in and handle the ups and downs of being a pro, but that is rare. Benning is airing on the side of more development time. These prospects can respect the fact that he knows what can happen when players get rushed. Also I agree with what some have said. The league needs to change the age eligibility for playing in the AHL to 19. The fact it's the NHL or juniors for Juolevi is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 On 8/4/2017 at 8:43 AM, bobbyg43 said: Thanks for refresher in JB 101 moves++ post I have a great deal of trepidation thinking about Jim managing the the unready JR players . my take is still he has a lot of aspects of pro life he needs to grab, re: being professional.( his play indicates he may be ready but his body may need some extra seasoning.He at most should be able to get in his nine games an exhibition season .Then sent back to Jr or loaned out to Finland what ever works best at end of the day . I have no desire to see him rushed in this year . Perhaps if this was 2014 an he was drafted there it may have been a different scenario? physics should kick in here An be the rule , however JB is probably deserving the law of averages with his management team. JB will be deserving of what ever results he gets , if he pushes the envelope to bursting he may not last long in league as a GM. I'd like to think that JB has learned from his mistakes. It's safe to say there are 2 major aspects that need to be assessed with young players. This can be further broken down into sub-aspects too. Physical - size, strength, skills, skating Mental - hockey IQ, maturity (on ice, off ice), work ethic I'd also like to add that the Canucks, in terms of managements goals, are in a different place. 2 years ago, they were still trying to give the Sedins another shot at a deep playoff run. Remember Hank talking about the possibility of a deep run in the final year of their contract? This year, nobody thinks it's possible now. Maybe 2 years ago, JB was hoping for meaningful contributions from his high draft picks, Virtanen, McCann etc by this year. This could easily have been motivation to play them too soon. To Juolevi, last year he looked mentally capable but too small at 180 lbs. This year, he is already 200 lbs. Does this make him ready? Not necessarily. We'll get a pretty good idea in camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 On 04/08/2017 at 1:18 AM, captainhorvat said: If management wants to play it smart here then they should let Joulevi go to Finland with Sami Salo as his mentor. They can easily do this because Boeser will be the rookie this year that fans are going to pay to come watch this coming season. Why do they need a rookie in the lineup? There's plenty of youth playing every night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS4quality Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 Lets not kid ourselves either, there is going to be the inevitability that at the very least one of our d-men will be injured. OJ is probably more NHL ready than anyone on the AHL roster, pair him with Tanev and watch the most dynamic pair of d-men in Canucks history develop (Probably a dream)... Weircioch knew what was going on here when he signed here, he'll get his minutes. Him and Biega will battle for 7/8 spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 On 04/08/2017 at 1:33 AM, Hairy Kneel said: When we had little or no prospect depth there was a lean towards giving them kids a roster spot. Now that we have depth on D and multiple forwards to sort through leaving kids down to develp more seems the better option. Besides we're not a playoff team per se. We are still transitioning away from depending on the twins so much. I trust Coach Green to help JB orchestrate the right moves in this regard. One thing that still irks me is that 1st rounders (high potential blue chip prospects) can't go to Utica when they are obviously ready to learn against men in a pro setting. The CHL should let those players move up if they're ready for that jump. This is a point of contention between the CHL and the NHL. I believe within the next five years there will be something added to their arrangement to allow guys that are twiddling their thumbs the opportunity to move up quicker. The CHL needs their stars to stay as long as possible to create interest and stability so for now at least hold the cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 On 8/3/2017 at 10:33 PM, Hairy Kneel said: One thing that still irks me is that 1st rounders (high potential blue chip prospects) can't go to Utica when they are obviously ready to learn against men in a pro setting. The CHL should let those players move up if they're ready for that jump. I find it interesting how many times I read this sentiment from Canuck fans these days. This is explained above by Ibatch but short sighted fans are suddenly up in arms. It makes as much sense as complaining for a lottery because Edmonton keeps drafting 1st while the Canucks draft anywhere from 15-29. How does that lottery look now that irt is costing us an opportunity to draft our way out of the bottom of the league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainhorvat Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 6 hours ago, stawns said: Why do they need a rookie in the lineup? There's plenty of youth playing every night. Hes the only rookie on our roster that has a shot at winning the calder this year. Just my opinion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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