(Rumour) RFA Athanasiou Could Sign in Russia

[D-Money]

28 minutes ago, apollo said:

You may be right... who knows. I'm just looking at stats and maybe watched 2 or 3 wings games all last year. 

 

I'm also a homer that values our guys way more lol 

Quote

In two seasons with Detroit, Athanasiou has played sparingly in their top six or hardly at all. Last season Athanasiou played just 13:28 a game in 64 contests with the Wings, which, oddly enough, represents a sizable uptick in ice-time from the 9:01 he averaged on a per game basis in the season prior. In 101 games over those two seasons, Athanasiou’s added 43 points (27 goals and 16 assists) in spite of his circumstances, good for a rate of 34.9 points per 82 game season.

 

...all but five of those points came at even strength. And those even strength points came at a pace of 2.16 an hour, good enough to match Henrik Sedin, Mikko Koivu and Mikael Backlund’s.

 

...There are only 12 players to best Athanasiou’s even strength goal rate of 1.36 per hour over the last two seasons.

https://canucksarmy.com/2017/08/22/the-canucks-should-offer-sheet-andreas-athanasiou/

[JM_]

6 minutes ago, D-Money said:

I'll do you one better: I would trade Jake Virtanen for Athanasiou...in a millisecond.

 

Wings can keep Virtanen in the AHL until they get their IR cap relief from Franzen.

I'm not ready to give up on Jake just yet, his development path was pretty wonky. I want to see him for a 1/2 season under Green before throwing in the towel. 

[D-Money]

Just now, S'all Good Man said:

I'm not ready to give up on Jake just yet, his development path was pretty wonky. I want to see him for a 1/2 season under Green before throwing in the towel. 

I'm not suggesting just throwing Jake away. I too think he may still pan out as a middle-6 NHL-er.

 

But I'm certainly open to trading him for a far more proven young player, especially one who projects to have a much better career.

[apollo]

19 minutes ago, D-Money said:

https://canucksarmy.com/2017/08/22/the-canucks-should-offer-sheet-andreas-athanasiou/

Hmmm interesting read... ok I'm sold. 

 

If I'm Jimbo I pick up the phone and talk to KH and see if he'll just take a 3rd so there's no offer sheet debacle. He'll likely say no... and then we can offer AA 1 year or 2 years at $1,962,985.99 AAV 

Don't see why detroit wouldn't match that though... gonna be tough for them to shed some cap but with Franzen on IR, it should give them 900k cap space? 

 

Alternatively they can package him with a higher cap guy and trade him. 

 

I'd go Gus + AA for Ben Hutton + something with no cap value + something with no cap value... that would fix their problems and Green will be off the books next year.

[aGENT]

35 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

hey we're actually in much better shape! 

 

Hindsight would have been nice on this one... if we had the cap space from Rodin and Burmistrov we could offer sheet AA or help out Detroit on their cap issue and get some picks. Oh well. 

If you're just glancing at Cap Friendly, you're not getting the full picture of our cap space. They have 15 forwards listed on our 'roster' (plus Horvat = 16). Given roster limits, it's not a complete picture.

 

3 of those guys will not be on our opening roster/cap hits. Whether waived, traded etc, my guess would be Boucher, Megna and one of Chaput, Gaunce or Burmistrov are nixed. That opens up roughly another ~$2m in cap space FWIW. And if we were to theoretically trade for AA, that'd open up whoever's cap he'd be replacing as well. All of which would likely pay for AA's likely +/- 2 year, $2.5-$3m contract without putting much, if any, dent in our present cap space which they presently list as just shy of $7.4m (minus whatever Horvat gets, let's say +/- $5m).

 

That said, I still HIGHLY doubt Detroit gives up AA. They'll lose other futures to dump vets first in all likelihood. But it does also mean we have roughly $5m cap space we could theoretically take back for assets.

 

Kronwall would make a TONNE of sense in that regard (and theoretically allow us to move Tanev separately) but he has a pesky NTC (10 teams list he'd accept trade to) that kicked in this year. Green has a flat out NTC and larger salary that would require additional gymnastics on our end but his contract is only 1 year remaining vs Kron's 2 (and he's far more productive and younger).

 

 

[higgyfan]

17 minutes ago, D-Money said:

I'm not suggesting just throwing Jake away. I too think he may still pan out as a middle-6 NHL-er.

 

But I'm certainly open to trading him for a far more proven young player, especially one who projects to have a much better career.

Yeah, I don't see JB offer-sheeting a team.  He doesn't seem like the type that would do that.

 

Giving up on Jake would be a tough decision, which has the potential of being a career-ending move for JB.  Athanasiou is certainly a good young player that has quite a bit of potential, so it could be a huge win as well.  If a trade did happen, Van would have to unload a player(s) with similar cap hit.  Smells like a high risk/high gain situation to me.

 

Here's an interesting read about Athanasiou for anyone interested...

 

http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/article/a-significant-khl-offer-to-athanasiou-will-put-pressure-on-the-red-wings

[D-Money]

45 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

Giving up on Jake would be a tough decision, which has the potential of being a career-ending move for JB.

Virtanen had 19 points in 65 AHL games last year. Him turning this around to become a top-6 force is extremely unlikely.

 

The only potential career-ending move for JB I see was drafting him in the first place. If anything, trading him for a good young player (and doing it with an Eastern team just in case he comes around) would probably help wash the stink off a bit.

[Monty]

Just now, D-Money said:

The only potential career-ending move for JB I see was drafting him in the first place. If anything, trading him for a good young player (and doing it with an Eastern team just in case he comes around) would probably help wash the stink off a bit.

And unfortunately, this is extremely unlikely. Hodgson had a small sample size of success and was traded for Kassian, who was all but unproven, but had the pedigree of a PF teams need.

 

Virtanen hasn't progressed well at all. This is a combination of absolutely piss poor development by the Canucks, not recognizing before drafting him that he has a low hockey IQ (which was common knowledge), and just Virtanen not having the skills needed to become what is expected from a top 10 pick. 

 

I know some people don't like to accept the truth here, but Virtanen will not be anything more than a 3rd liner, at best. There's a reason RFAs are now signing long term deals at 21 years of age after coming out of their ELC. Forwards are hitting their peak years very early, and unless you're Crosby or Malkin, stop producing at that rate by the time they are 28.

 

Virtanen is entering his prime now. What he has shown is what we can all expect. He's not going to be a top 6 forward. I'm not sure what "good young player" any team would be dumb enough to part with.

[D-Money]

12 minutes ago, Monty said:

And unfortunately, this is extremely unlikely. Hodgson had a small sample size of success and was traded for Kassian, who was all but unproven, but had the pedigree of a PF teams need.

 

Virtanen hasn't progressed well at all. This is a combination of absolutely piss poor development by the Canucks, not recognizing before drafting him that he has a low hockey IQ (which was common knowledge), and just Virtanen not having the skills needed to become what is expected from a top 10 pick. 

 

I know some people don't like to accept the truth here, but Virtanen will not be anything more than a 3rd liner, at best. There's a reason RFAs are now signing long term deals at 21 years of age after coming out of their ELC. Forwards are hitting their peak years very early, and unless you're Crosby or Malkin, stop producing at that rate by the time they are 28.

 

Virtanen is entering his prime now. What he has shown is what we can all expect. He's not going to be a top 6 forward. I'm not sure what "good young player" any team would be dumb enough to part with.

Two words:

 

Michael Rasmussen.

[Monty]

5 minutes ago, D-Money said:

Two words:

 

Michael Rasmussen.

[JeremyCuddles]

1 hour ago, D-Money said:

Virtanen had 19 points in 65 AHL games last year. Him turning this around to become a top-6 force is extremely unlikely.

 

The only potential career-ending move for JB I see was drafting him in the first place. If anything, trading him for a good young player (and doing it with an Eastern team just in case he comes around) would probably help wash the stink off a bit.

Different positions but Duncan Keith was pretty poopy in the AHL and he seems to have done pretty well for himself in the NHL.

[Monty]

16 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

Different positions but Duncan Keith was pretty poopy in the AHL and he seems to have done pretty well for himself in the NHL.

1. Correct. Different positions.

2. I'd hardly call "20+ points" as a 20 and 21 year old defensemen in the AHL "poopy". In fact, majority of people would say that's exceeding expectations for a defensemen at that age; especially if said defensemen is mobile and responsible, which Keith is.

[JeremyCuddles]

Just now, Monty said:

1. Correct. Different positions.

2. I'd hardly call "20+ points" as a 20 and 21 year old defensemen in the AHL "poopy". In fact, majority of people would say that's exceeding expectations for a defensemen at that age; especially if said defensemen is mobile and responsible, which Keith is.

Hawks fans didn't seem to think so at the time. 

[Monty]

13 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

Hawks fans didn't seem to think so at the time. 

Source back from 2003-2005?

[alfstonker]

20 hours ago, J.R. said:

I doubt that. It'd take more than spare parts.

I would do Goldobin then. I have a sneaky feeling he will lack the physicality we are looking for. Athanasiou is 3 inches taller at 6'-2"

[aGENT]

12 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

I would do Goldobin then. I have a sneaky feeling he will lack the physicality we are looking for. Athanasiou is 3 inches taller at 6'-2"

I can't quite put my finger on Goldobin....

 

Kid certainly has the skills, he could be our most skilled prospect in fact, even more so than the vaunted Boeser or Petterson (at least in the discussion). But he also floats, has to work WAY harder away from the puck, improve his puck pursuit/battle etc before he's going to be anything more than a flashy, complimentary 'maybe' with a limited future.

 

That said, if/when he figures it out, it would be a shame to have given up on him. Kid has star potential if he's willing to do the work to become an actual hockey player and not just a part time, highlight reel in skates.

[riffraff]

2 hours ago, Monty said:

And unfortunately, this is extremely unlikely. Hodgson had a small sample size of success and was traded for Kassian, who was all but unproven, but had the pedigree of a PF teams need.

 

Virtanen hasn't progressed well at all. This is a combination of absolutely piss poor development by the Canucks, not recognizing before drafting him that he has a low hockey IQ (which was common knowledge), and just Virtanen not having the skills needed to become what is expected from a top 10 pick. 

 

I know some people don't like to accept the truth here, but Virtanen will not be anything more than a 3rd liner, at best. There's a reason RFAs are now signing long term deals at 21 years of age after coming out of their ELC. Forwards are hitting their peak years very early, and unless you're Crosby or Malkin, stop producing at that rate by the time they are 28.

 

Virtanen is entering his prime now. What he has shown is what we can all expect. He's not going to be a top 6 forward. I'm not sure what "good young player" any team would be dumb enough to part with.

Entering his prime at 20?

[Nuxfanabroad]

Jake idea has a whiff of Neely-trauma, all over again. Wouldn't risk repeating the same type of gaffe.

 

Should Jake fizzle out, we should just wear it(don't bother trying to pawn it off), & accept another high pick-season, as partial-consequence.

[JM_]

2 hours ago, D-Money said:

Virtanen had 19 points in 65 AHL games last year. Him turning this around to become a top-6 force is extremely unlikely.

 

The only potential career-ending move for JB I see was drafting him in the first place. If anything, trading him for a good young player (and doing it with an Eastern team just in case he comes around) would probably help wash the stink off a bit.

I wouldn't be that concerned over last years stats. Darren Archibald scored 23 goals and he isn't making the opening day roster.

 

Jake was there to learn how to play more responsibly and he did average over 2 shots per game on a very anemic team. Who knows, he may turn out to be more like Hansen and thats not the worst thing ever. A lot of scouts had Jake as a high pick, JB wasn't out on his own on this one. 

[Monty]

20 minutes ago, riffraff said:

Entering his prime at 20?

This is something we've seen for forwards over the past several years now, especially top 10 picks. All anyone has to do is look at players over the past several years to get a snap shot of what they were producing like around the age of 20. 

 

Now, are there exceptions? Yes. But lately they are few and far between. And more importantly, if a guy is struggling to produce in the AHL, he won't produce in the NHL.