Sam Gagner | C/W

[Borvat]

4 hours ago, aGENT said:

I'm all for adding one of Roussel/Reaves and a guy like Beagle. That has pretty much n othing to do with Gagner though.

Other than he is taking a roster spot that likely should be filled by a younger skilled player (top six) or more rounded player (bottom six).

 

Gagner doesn't really fit as a top six and doesn't play a strong enough defensive game with any intangibles to play in the bottom six. 

 

He had the worst +/- (-18) of any forward on the team other than someone named Sedin, with a FO% of 47.7%  with 57% offensive zone starts.

 

11 of his 31 points were on the PP.     

 

He had a short shelf life as a place holder but there is not a lot to like about his game from my perspective.  

[Smashian Kassian]

1 hour ago, Borvat said:

Other than he is taking a roster spot that likely should be filled by a younger skilled player (top six) or more rounded player (bottom six).

 

Gagner doesn't really fit as a top six and doesn't play a strong enough defensive game with any intangibles to play in the bottom six. 

 

He had the worst +/- (-18) of any forward on the team other than someone named Sedin, with a FO% of 47.7%  with 57% offensive zone starts.

 

11 of his 31 points were on the PP.     

 

He had a short shelf life as a place holder but there is not a lot to like about his game from my perspective.  

 

Agreed. Clearly they felt he would help the PP. He kind of does, but he's not a top PP guy, so its a secondary PP role, and we have young players coming who will need that opportunity & can help more.

 

I wonder if there is anyway we can get rid of him. Would anyone else want him for a 7th rounder. Get him off our roster and add an extra pick for the draft at home.

[Kanukfanatic]

45 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

Agreed. Clearly they felt he would help the PP. He kind of does, but he's not a top PP guy, so its a secondary PP role, and we have young players coming who will need that opportunity & can help more.

 

I wonder if there is anyway we can get rid of him. Would anyone else want him for a 7th rounder. Get him off our roster and add an extra pick for the draft at home.

The problem is we will probably lose another 400 man games to injury. If that happens we will need the depth. I don't want to see another AHLer spend tons of time in the big league.

[Smashian Kassian]

Just now, Kanukfanatic said:

The problem is we will probably lose another 400 man games to injury. If that happens we will need the depth. I don't want to see another AHLer spend tons of time in the big league.

Yeah that's a good point. He is better than watching guys like Megna and Chaput as regulars in the top 9. (Dear lord that was awful)

[Borvat]

46 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

Agreed. Clearly they felt he would help the PP. He kind of does, but he's not a top PP guy, so its a secondary PP role, and we have young players coming who will need that opportunity & can help more.

 

I wonder if there is anyway we can get rid of him. Would anyone else want him for a 7th rounder. Get him off our roster and add an extra pick for the draft at home.

I'm sure there may be especially once the season starts and especially closer to the trade deadline.  Would be pretty difficult now unless he was part of a package or if we traded for a player another team didn't really want or need either.  Maybe they need some offense/PP help and have depth in their bottom six.  A pick would be best.

 

But as you noted the return will likely be just the benefit of moving him and opening a roster spot and hopefully obtaining a pick.  I hope the Canucks stockpile picks for next year as well.  The prospect depth is getting to be impressive and may soon allow some positional moves (ie: trading for a top six center or top pairing defenseman) where the Canucks may have to overpay a bit.. 

[Borvat]

8 minutes ago, Kanukfanatic said:

The problem is we will probably lose another 400 man games to injury. If that happens we will need the depth. I don't want to see another AHLer spend tons of time in the big league.

On a good team Gagner is an AHL'er .  The AHL players the Canucks will have access to next year will be much better than in the past and worth giving an opportunity.  Especially the ones with offense in their game.  

 

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, Borvat said:

Other than he is taking a roster spot that likely should be filled by a younger skilled player (top six) or more rounded player (bottom six).

 

Gagner doesn't really fit as a top six and doesn't play a strong enough defensive game with any intangibles to play in the bottom six. 

 

He had the worst +/- (-18) of any forward on the team other than someone named Sedin, with a FO% of 47.7%  with 57% offensive zone starts.

 

11 of his 31 points were on the PP.     

 

He had a short shelf life as a place holder but there is not a lot to like about his game from my perspective.  

This:

32 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

Yeah that's a good point. He is better than watching guys like Megna and Chaput as regulars in the top 9. (Dear lord that was awful)

 

He's not here to win us a cup or be some dominant force in the top 6. Nor is he being paid or have term that would reflect such a role. 

 

He's a solid, middling veteran the coach can trust who can play all three  F positions in a pinch, up and down your lineup and be good in the room and put up +/- 40 points until kids arrive in enough quantity and quality that his services are no longer required.

 

That's it. That's all he's paid for. And that's exactly what he delivered. I really have no clue why people complain about that? Unless you guys actually preferred guys like Megna filing holes instead of a legit (if middling) NHL'er? 

 

[Borvat]

2 hours ago, aGENT said:

This:

 

He's not here to win us a cup or be some dominant force in the top 6. Nor is he being paid or have term that would reflect such a role. 

 

He's a solid, middling veteran the coach can trust who can play all three  F positions in a pinch, up and down your lineup and be good in the room and put up +/- 40 points until kids arrive in enough quantity and quality that his services are no longer required.

 

That's it. That's all he's paid for. And that's exactly what he delivered. I really have no clue why people complain about that? Unless you guys actually preferred guys like Megna filing holes instead of a legit (if middling) NHL'er? 

 

I guess you are pleased with what he brings.  I am not and never was. 31 points / -18 / with no intangibles, he can not be relied upon to play defense, kill penalties or take important draws.

 

  Megna and Chaput are no longer around and Gagner is 1 year into his 3 year deal.  There are younger players that will need the opportunity.

 

I guess I am not as impressed as you are.  If you consider a differing opinion complaining then so be it.

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, Borvat said:

I guess you are pleased with what he brings.  I am not and never was. 31 points / -18 / with no intangibles, he can not be relied upon to play defense, kill penalties or take important draws.

 

  Megna and Chaput are no longer around and Gagner is 1 year into his 3 year deal.  There are younger players that will need the opportunity.

 

I guess I am not as impressed as you are.  If you consider a differing opinion complaining then so be it.

Pleased is not the right term. He's reliable full in. He's 'not Megna'.

 

My only issue is people's out of whack expectations of what that means. He's not blocking anyone's 'opportunity', he's ensuring they earn it. 

[Borvat]

5 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Pleased is not the right term. He's reliable full in. He's 'not Megna'.

 

My only issue is people's out of whack expectations of what that means. He's not blocking anyone's 'opportunity', he's ensuring they earn it. 

Well then we disagree.  He is not reliable full in as you pointed out.  He's a center who is not good at faceoffs.  He can't kill penalties.  He is not defensively reliable. He offers very little outside the powerplay.   Megna is not the best AHL option any longer, that's history. It wouldn't take a lot to displace him.   

[Hairy Kneel]

On 6/29/2018 at 5:50 PM, aGENT said:

He's a solid, middling veteran the coach can trust who can play all three  F positions in a pinch, up and down your lineup and be good in the room and put up +/- 40 points until kids arrive in enough quantity and quality that his services are no longer required.

 

He scored 31 points and went -18,  with favorable Ozone starts and PP time.

You say he's good for 40+ points? He's not great offensively not going to oust any of our new defensive guys.

He was brought in at 3.2 Million to help score. So what? He can't score or defend.

Waive him and he can mentor in Utica. Nobody will pick him up I gaurantee it.

 

[Rob_Zepp]

On 2018-06-29 at 8:18 PM, Borvat said:

On a good team Gagner is an AHL'er .  The AHL players the Canucks will have access to next year will be much better than in the past and worth giving an opportunity.  Especially the ones with offense in their game.  

 

Columbus was a very good team and Gagner was essentially their 2nd line C and PP half wall QB.   Tad harsh you are in my opinion.   Whether he makes the Canuck team or not this year remains to be seen but he is an NHL player

[aGENT]

4 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

He scored 31 points and went -18,  with favorable Ozone starts and PP time.

You say he's good for 40+ points? He's not great offensively not going to oust any of our new defensive guys.

He was brought in at 3.2 Million to help score. So what? He can't score or defend.

Waive him and he can mentor in Utica. Nobody will pick him up I gaurantee it.

 

I actually said 40 +/-  (that's plus OR minus for those playing along at home), dependent on team/line mates/opportunity etc and he was on pace for 34 over 82 games. So right in the ball park.

 

Meh. Feel free to split that hair further if you want 

 

And he was 'loosely' brought in to help score (which he did BTW, 7th best on the team) and frankly isn't being paid to do much more than that ($3mX3 is not remotely a high end contract). IMO the bigger reason he was brought in was quite literally as a plug. He can play all three forward positions, up and down the lines as injuries occur (quite useful if you're the coach) and he was basically brought in to be a 'not Megna'.

 

Or would you have preferred Megna playing those minutes/roles instead?

 

Beyond that, he was brought in to play, over his head, when those injuries occurred (which they did) and get shat on by fans and media so some poor kid didn't have to deal with that. 

 

Insulation.

 

All for what is basically a middling 3rd line value contract. Agian, meh.

 

He's an exceedingly accessible bar for prospects to need to leap over and provides the coach versatile depth in case of injuries, shelters kids from media/fan shatting and is disposable when he's no longer needed. 

 

It's not sexy but it's pragmatic. Deal hombre.

 

 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

57 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Columbus was a very good team and Gagner was essentially their 2nd line C and PP half wall QB.   Tad harsh you are in my opinion.   Whether he makes the Canuck team or not this year remains to be seen but he is an NHL player

he played wing on the 4th line in Columbus. Sedlak played center between him and hartnell. he also played point distributor for the blue jackets in which he was quite successful there. 

 

The sad part for sam is the nhl today is a young mans game. There’s a bunch of hungry kids ready to steal that nhl spot. In order to last in this league you need to become a extremely versatile or still be able to produce.  And the problem for gagner is, he’s a highly sheltered vet. Teams would much rather give those sheltered minutes to the youth in order to make there transition easier. 

 

Hes quickly finding himself in the 28-32 limbo. Similar to Raymond franson, glencross, higgins. Not quite good enough to keep a roster spot over youth and finding themselves on the outs.  

 

 

[PhillipBlunt]

18 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I actually said 40 +/-  (that's plus OR minus for those playing along at home), dependent on team/line mates/opportunity etc and he was on pace for 34 over 82 games. So right in the ball park.

 

Meh. Feel free to split that hair further if you want 

 

And he was 'loosely' brought in to help score (which he did BTW, 7th best on the team) and frankly isn't being paid to do much more than that ($3mX3 is not remotely a high end contract). IMO the bigger reason he was brought in was quite literally as a plug. He can play all three forward positions, up and down the lines as injuries occur (quite useful if you're the coach) and he was basically brought in to be a 'not Megna'.

 

Or would you have preferred Megna playing those minutes/roles instead?

 

Beyond that, he was brought in to play, over his head, when those injuries occurred (which they did) and get shat on by fans and media so some poor kid didn't have to deal with that. 

 

Insulation.

 

All for what is basically a middling 3rd line value contract. Agian, meh.

 

He's an exceedingly accessible bar for prospects to need to leap over and provides the coach versatile depth in case of injuries, shelters kids from media/fan shatting and is disposable when he's no longer needed. 

 

It's not sexy but it's pragmatic. Deal hombre.

 

 

Benning: Congratulations Sam. Looking forward to the next three years.

Gagner: Thanks Jim. It feels great to have some security and to play in Canada again.

Benning: One more thing, Sam. I'm not sure if your agent mentioned this to you, but part of your contract will involve being shat on by fans.

Gagner: Uhhhhhh....

Benning: Yeah, like we don't want the younger players having to deal with that, and seeing as how your a steady veteran in the league, we figured you could take it.

Gagner: Do I get some coveralls or something? I don't remember seeing a $&!# clause in my contract. I'm going to have to call my agent.

Benning: Anyways thanks, Sam. Really looking forward to seeing how you work out on the ice.

Gagner: Yeah, about the fan $&!#ting, Jim. Jim?

[Hairy Kneel]

2 hours ago, aGENT said:

I actually said 40 +/-  (that's plus OR minus for those playing along at home), dependent on team/line mates/opportunity etc and he was on pace for 34 over 82 games. So right in the ball park.

 

Meh. Feel free to split that hair further if you want 

 

And he was 'loosely' brought in to help score (which he did BTW, 7th best on the team) and frankly isn't being paid to do much more than that ($3mX3 is not remotely a high end contract). IMO the bigger reason he was brought in was quite literally as a plug. He can play all three forward positions, up and down the lines as injuries occur (quite useful if you're the coach) and he was basically brought in to be a 'not Megna'.

 

Or would you have preferred Megna playing those minutes/roles instead?

 

Beyond that, he was brought in to play, over his head, when those injuries occurred (which they did) and get shat on by fans and media so some poor kid didn't have to deal with that. 

 

Insulation.

 

All for what is basically a middling 3rd line value contract. Agian, meh.

 

He's an exceedingly accessible bar for prospects to need to leap over and provides the coach versatile depth in case of injuries, shelters kids from media/fan shatting and is disposable when he's no longer needed. 

 

It's not sexy but it's pragmatic. Deal hombre.

 

 

Oh I thought you meant he'd be -40 for the year.

[Pete M]

7 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Benning: Congratulations Sam. Looking forward to the next three years.

Gagner: Thanks Jim. It feels great to have some security and to play in Canada again.

Benning: One more thing, Sam. I'm not sure if your agent mentioned this to you, but part of your contract will involve being shat on by fans.

Gagner: Uhhhhhh....

Benning: Yeah, like we don't want the younger players having to deal with that, and seeing as how your a steady veteran in the league, we figured you could take it.

Gagner: Do I get some coveralls or something? I don't remember seeing a $&!# clause in my contract. I'm going to have to call my agent.

Benning: Anyways thanks, Sam. Really looking forward to seeing how you work out on the ice.

Gagner: Yeah, about the fan $&!#ting, Jim. Jim?

Man...I wish Gagner was good. Hamster on a spinning wheel...trys hard, but no hockey sense. But yeah, he is better than Megna.

 

Now that the bottom four line is solidified and Linden and Benning are on record saying the young, skilled, talented forwards will be relied on...Gagner's only spot is on the 3rd line, which already has better options than him...Utica bound or possibly sitting in the press box until injuries hit...he will definitely clear waivers, but for some reason that he doesn't, then no big loss. 

 

The difference now is the prospect pool is there to add depth...players like Archie, Boucher, Motte, Lind, Gadjovich, Palmu, Jasek, Dahlen and MacEwen will be just as good or better options than Gagner.

 

Times are starting to get exciting!

[higgyfan]

7 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Benning: Congratulations Sam. Looking forward to the next three years.

Gagner: Thanks Jim. It feels great to have some security and to play in Canada again.

Benning: One more thing, Sam. I'm not sure if your agent mentioned this to you, but part of your contract will involve being shat on by fans.

Gagner: Uhhhhhh....

Benning: Yeah, like we don't want the younger players having to deal with that, and seeing as how your a steady veteran in the league, we figured you could take it.

Gagner: Do I get some coveralls or something? I don't remember seeing a $&!# clause in my contract. I'm going to have to call my agent.

Benning: Anyways thanks, Sam. Really looking forward to seeing how you work out on the ice.

Gagner: Yeah, about the fan $&!#ting, Jim. Jim?

I think Benning could have at least acknowledged Sam for all the shat he handled as a youngin' in Coiler country.

[Rob_Zepp]

On 6/29/2018 at 1:24 PM, aGENT said:

I'm all for adding one of Roussel/Reaves and a guy like Beagle. That has pretty much n othing to do with Gagner though.

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

12 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

he played wing on the 4th line in Columbus. Sedlak played center between him and hartnell. he also played point distributor for the blue jackets in which he was quite successful there. 

 

The sad part for sam is the nhl today is a young mans game. There’s a bunch of hungry kids ready to steal that nhl spot. In order to last in this league you need to become a extremely versatile or still be able to produce.  And the problem for gagner is, he’s a highly sheltered vet. Teams would much rather give those sheltered minutes to the youth in order to make there transition easier. 

 

Hes quickly finding himself in the 28-32 limbo. Similar to Raymond franson, glencross, higgins. Not quite good enough to keep a roster spot over youth and finding themselves on the outs.  

 

 

I think they did that at first, but they transitioned him to play the middle in a 1-3-1 set up on the powerplay.  He would be the give and go guy, and the option for a quick shot between the dots.  He was most successful there.

 

I still believe he wasn't used properly, and considering that not a lot of our players can play within that space (Goldobin, Pettersson, Leipsic, Boeser, Baertschi - all like to play the perimeter/off wing setup) Gagner is going to be heavily depended upon to help guide that powerplay.   

 

Although I agree, having to shelter a veteran is not ideal, knowing how JB and Green have emphasized the need for veteran leadership, i don't foresee Gagner being on the outskirts on the roster for at least the start of the season.